Tethered Digitrax Throttles-9 V battery recommended?

[Isambard]

I havn't come across any reference in the literature, including the Digitrax manuals, however at a recent show I was advised by an experienced Digitrax user to operate our club throttles (mix of DT300's and 400's and UT4's), with 9 volt batteries installed to reduce the power drain on the DS100 SCF 8 amp Command Station/Booster, even when tethered.

He does so, and has modified his throttles to incorporate an on/off switch, so as not to have to remove the battery at the end of a session.

Comments please.

How many hours of operation are typically available from a 9 volt battery in one of these throttles and how to maximize those hours, apart from the obvious step of switching off or removing the battery?

[:)][?]

[selector]

I thought the battery was merely to keep the internal memory while transferring the pad to another panel. So, I have not bothered because I only have the one jack.

I'll have to go back to the book.

[SpaceMouse]

I don't use a battery and I don't loose the setting while moving between jacks. I do loose it if I go from home to the club.

[rolleiman]

Is your club having power problems?? If not, it ain't broke, don't fix it. I've never bothered with batteries on the throttles either.. Never had a problem going from one plug in to another.

Jeff

[soumodeler]

The battery is only for the radio or infared control. There is no need to have the battery if you are not using this. Our club has a fairly large layout, running two radio and two IR throttles plus three to four trains with several locomotives each. We have seen no power drops, even when they "borrowed" my Zephyr so they could program locomotives using the Super Cheif. I say no need for it.

[Paul3]

We've never had that problem at our club, although to be honest we've been using radio throttles for the last couple years.

I would put an on/off switch on the throttle, I just don't know where I'd put it... A slider switch would be best, IMHO, provided it would fit. A mini toggle would be more annoying than anything else.

As far as typical battery life, we use the "high end" Duracell Pro Cell (we get them from a fellow member who runs an alarm company). These last all through a two day train show (two 8-hour days of constant use), and then for several months afterwards of light use of, at most, 2 hours constant use per time used. Put it this way, we usually get new 9 volts twice a year. Of course, they go quick when they don't get removed.

On my home layout, I use DT400R's for 2 hours every week during my operation session. I'm using regular Duracells. I've had radio throttles for 20 months, and in that time, I'm still on just my second 9 volt Duracell for all three throttles.

The book, IIRC, says that the throttle will operate down to 7v, but I've found that operation can get a bit wonky once you get below 7.5v.

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[rrinker]

If you have track power and/or auxiliary power to the UP panels, you don't need batteries in the tethered throttles, no matter how many there are. If you rely on only the Loconet cable to power the throttles - then you will have problems. If it's a really large layout - you could have problems at the furthest panels even without a lot of throttles plugged in simply because of voltage drop.

This is another reason it is recommended to use the real UP's and not make your own from telephone jacks. Of course, if the throttle is to be operated wirelessly, either IR or RF, then it does need a battery.

--Randy

[Isambard]

From discussion yesterday with the Ottawa Valley Hotrak Club folks at Ottawa Railfare, I understand that they cut off pins 1 and 6 from the loconet connectors plugged into the Digitrax command station/booster(s), and power their tehtered throttles from a bus powered from a regulated 12 volt DC supply, to avoid pulling down the internal command station/booster(s) DC voltages and resulting erratic behavior.

Also that using a tethered throttle with a 9 volt battery installed does not reduce power drain on the command station/booster(s) DC supply(ies), nor does the use of individual local 12 volt supplies to the universal panels. This appears to be contrary to information that I have had from other experienced Digitrax users.

The UP-3 literature reads "External Power Supply is required for battery saver"- at the expense of the command station/booster DC supply?

Comments welcomed, as always.


[:)]

[cmrproducts]

On my home layout (which some say is as big or bigger than some club layouts (25ft x 75 ft basement with 2700 + feet of track – 50 engines and 800 + cars) I only had one time where the Loco net was loaded down so far it went flakey.

When that happened all of the engines (and I mean ALL 50 – and at the time they all had been stopped) started moving (very slowly – luckily). There was a mad scramble to pull the plug on the system. It took me a while to determine what was wrong. No batteries in the keypads.

We were testing the layout to see how far the Loconet would go before a problem developed. Once that happened we never again ran more that 2 plugged keypads at a time without a battery in them.

Shortly after that we went all radio and the problem has never been an issue after that.

As for battery life I just remove the batteries from the keypads and that is it. So for me they last years. But then I turn off the backlight in the DT400s and Dt300s. I am slowly moving to the UT4R keypads. Removing the batteries never seemed to be a problem for us as we just decided to do it from the start.

And if I want to just run a little bit I want to run radio anyway so I just pop the battery in the back and leave the cover off, no big deal.

As for my UP3-5s, I only have one or 2 powered by a wall-wart transformer. We don’t use the UP3-5s because of the radio system I saw no need to do so.

BOB H – Clarion, PA

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cmrproducts

On my home layout (which some say is as big or bigger than some club layouts (25ft x 75 ft basement with 2700 + feet of track – 50 engines and 800 + cars) I only had one time where the Loco net was loaded down so far it went flakey.BOB H – Clarion, PA

How many command station/boosters pumping power into the Loconet Bob?
[:)][?]

[cmrproducts]

Isambard

I was running the layout with ONE (1) 8 amp command station. The only power to the Loconet is from the one command station.

I wanted to see just how far I could pu***he system. I had OPTUDs (OP Till U Drop) about every 6 months for a while and would have anywhere between 30 to 40 operators. We would run 30 to 40 trains during the 12 hours session with 20 or so running at any one time.

The system worked great. But then again we were using mostly radio keypads and very few plugged ones.

Notice I stated was running one 8 amp. I now have 2 – 8 amp boosters plus the 8 amp command station. Why? Sound!

When I started to run sound on the layout 3 BLI engines would not let it recover from a short and the system would trip unexplainably. With the 50 engines on the layout (and as I add sound engines others are removed to keep at the 50 level), it must have been at the 8 amp level.

I have since broke the layout up into 3 very large blocks and added the 2 extra boosters. I am now up to 5 of my own sound units plus my operators are bringing in one each so we can have up to 10 or so on any given Ops night.

I never did find out how many regular engines would stop the old 8 amp unit on my layout.

BOB H – Clarion, PA

[rrinker]

The UP3's and UP5's have diodes in them that allow the external power supply to power the torttles wihout feeding this voltage back to the Loconet wiring. Same witht he track power connection onthe UP5 - the uP5 has 3 power sources: Loconet, track, and external, if you so choose to hook all of these things up. I will say that with my one solitary DT400 and my Zephyr, which has a track voltage of about 12.5 volts, I notice a .3 volt increase in the reading shown on the DT400 at power up if I have track power on, vs not having it on (mty UP5 is connected to track power). So somehow the track power IS getting to my DT400 instead of the Loconet power. Why this would not be the case in the example listed I do not know, if actual Digitrax UP panels were used. The Loy's and Tony's panels are NOT identical to the Digitrax design.

--Randy

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cmrproducts

Isambard

I was running the layout with ONE (1) 8 amp command station. The only power to the Loconet is from the one command station.

I wanted to see just how far I could pu***he system. I had OPTUDs (OP Till U Drop) about every 6 months for a while and would have anywhere between 30 to 40 operators. We would run 30 to 40 trains during the 12 hours session with 20 or so running at any one time.

The system worked great. But then again we were using mostly radio keypads and very few plugged ones.

Notice I stated was running one 8 amp. I now have 2 – 8 amp boosters plus the 8 amp command station. Why? Sound!

When I started to run sound on the layout 3 BLI engines would not let it recover from a short and the system would trip unexplainably. With the 50 engines on the layout (and as I add sound engines others are removed to keep at the 50 level), it must have been at the 8 amp level.

I have since broke the layout up into 3 very large blocks and added the 2 extra boosters. I am now up to 5 of my own sound units plus my operators are bringing in one each so we can have up to 10 or so on any given Ops night.

I never did find out how many regular engines would stop the old 8 amp unit on my layout.

BOB H – Clarion, PA

Bob:
Is your 8 Amp command station a DCS100? Our club will be using when we complete our installations.
Interesting about your problem with the BLI locos. We're going to watch for problems when members start to run their new DC/DCC sound equipped locos. The Ottawa Hotrak folks currently have a ban on running QSI equipped locos while they search for a solution to the many glitches they encountered when running with sound.
[:)]

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

Why this would not be the case in the example listed I do not know, if actual Digitrax UP panels were used. The Loy's and Tony's panels are NOT identical to the Digitrax design.

--Randy

If you're referring to Ottawa Hotrak, their plug-ins panels are mainly standard telco panels fitted with either single or dual RJ12 receptacles. Since they have over 66 modules, many fitted with plug-ins, both frontside and backside, the cost saving vs using Digitrax panels is significant.

As I understand it, their objective in disconnecting pins 1 and 6 at the command station/ booster loconet connection is to avoid drawing throttle power from the command station/booster with potential for glitches with many throttles plugged in.

I'm encouraged by Bob H's experience recounted above. As our club layout is much smaller and we're not likely to run more than ten locos at a time, perhaps (and I repeat, perhaps, we won't have problems with our DCS100 and throttle power drains, batteries installed or not.

[:)].

[cmrproducts]

Isambard

My command station is the DCS200 - The DCS100 is the 5 amp system.

The only real problem we had with the sound engines was that if someone shorted the layout out (running against a turnout) then the single power unit did not want to recover right away.

All we had to do was turn off the track power from the keypad and then turn it back on [Power - ] [Power +] and it would come right back up. But that got to be a pain. So I just decided to add the 2 extra boosters and spread out the load!

I still get the operators running against the turnouts but now that booster recovers right away.

We run the BLI – Proto and Atlas sound units. On occasion there is a Soundtraxx unit or two.

BOB H - Clarion, PA

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Isambard

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

Why this would not be the case in the example listed I do not know, if actual Digitrax UP panels were used. The Loy's and Tony's panels are NOT identical to the Digitrax design.

--Randy

If you're referring to Ottawa Hotrak, their plug-ins panels are mainly standard telco panels fitted with either single or dual RJ12 receptacles. Since they have over 66 modules, many fitted with plug-ins, both frontside and backside, the cost saving vs using Digitrax panels is significant.

As I understand it, their objective in disconnecting pins 1 and 6 at the command station/ booster loconet connection is to avoid drawing throttle power from the command station/booster with potential for glitches with many throttles plugged in.

I'm encouraged by Bob H's experience recounted above. As our club layout is much smaller and we're not likely to run more than ten locos at a time, perhaps (and I repeat, perhaps, we won't have problems with our DCS100 and throttle power drains, batteries installed or not.

[:)].

We're currently completing DCC installations at the club and are planning on powering the individual UP 3 and UR 90 panels from a regulated 12-15 V DC power supply and have several questions:

How does connecting together the "small holes" on the panels by a wire (single conductor?), as described by Digitrax , complete a circuit for the 12 V power to the panels that are fed from the first panel that is connected to the power source? The holes do not appear to be connected to any other circuit.

Is it necessary to disconnect the Command Station/Booster 12 V output if using the separate 12 V power supply?

What are currents do each of the DT400, DT300, UT4 and UR 90 panels draw?
[?][:)]