4'X8'

[oleirish]

Any one ever wonder why some people look down on us guys that only have room for small layouts and limited funds but still love Model railroading???[V][:(]
JIM

[loathar]

Some of the best looking ,most highly detailed, proffesional layouts I've ever seen where only a 4x 8 or 5x10.

[ARTHILL]

I built two of them. They were just right for me. Why would anyone look down. I now am around the wall because that is what the space asked for. Also, being retired I wanted something that would fill a little more time. Lets see a pic of what you have done.

[oleirish]

QUOTE: Originally posted by loathar

Some of the best looking ,most highly detailed, proffesional layouts I've ever seen where only a 4x 8 or 5x10.

I agree with you[^] but there is people who think if you don't have a big lay outs you are playing toy trains[:(]
JIM

[oleirish]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ARTHILL

I built two of them. They were just right for me. Why would anyone look down. I now am around the wall because that is what the space asked for. Also, being retired I wanted something that would fill a little more time. Lets see a pic of what you have done.

I'am still working with mine 42"X10' it is all the room I have !![B)][;)].I posted some shots on week end photo fun,take a look!![^][8D][:)]
JIM[:D

[Anonymous]

Here's my funny experience. I never heard of 22" eight years ago and I started with a 5 X 9
ping pong table.
Went to the LHS and the Train Dept Manager sold me 18". Went back to get more and the
sub working the counter ask "why are you going with 18"
That was my introduction to 22". It took me longer to find out the principal of block controls,
KDs & wheel sets.

Still learning.

[oleirish]

QUOTE: Originally posted by locomotive3

Here's my funny experience. I never heard of 22" eight years ago and I started with a 5 X 9
ping pong table.
Went to the LHS and the Train Dept Manager sold me 18". Went back to get more and the
sub working the counter ask "why are you going with 18"
That was my introduction to 22". It took me longer to find out the principal of block controls,
KDs & wheel sets.

Still learning.

22" are if you have room,but try them on a 42" wide board[;)][:D]
JIM

[railroadyoshi]

little bit over the side there[:D]
seriously, one can have loads of fun with a small layout. Even though Chip doesn't like 4x8's, his 4x8 has come out wonderfully! I am pretty happy with my 4x8, and it serves as a good thing to use to learn the ropes. It gives a manageable rr, versus the type that in every month, 1 is spent in a wonderful operating session with people it took ages to find, and enough for a full session, and the other 29 days are spent just trying to keep the railroad clean! In my humle opinion, I think 4x8's are great!

[tatans]

Hooray for the 4 x 8 crowd, the sentiments above reflect my feelings also, some of the very best layouts I've seen are on 4 x 8, hang in there gang.

[Anonymous]

Phase 1 of my layout is only slightly longer than a 4X8. It is the perfect size for learning the theory and honing the skills the hobby requires. Depending on the amount of effort put into detailing a "simple" 4X8 can easily take months to complete. At the speed I am working it could take years

[Anonymous]

And there are a few three axle diesels that will handle the 18" and some steamers too so there's lots of
fun to be had.

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oleirish

Any one ever wonder why some people look down on us guys that only have room for small layouts and limited funds but still love Model railroading???[V][:(]
JIM

Jim, I think that, short of a handful of elitists, few folks in the hobby really look down on the 4x8'ers. Most of us start out, rightly so, with that size layout, many stay with it, and quite a few today have neither the time, money, nor interest in builting huge layouts. The real laugh is that those with smaller layouts generally get to the complete or nearly complete stage after a while, whereas the guys with the basement-filling empires are often still running largely on plywood when their number finally comes up! Take my word for it, I've seen way too many never-to-be-completed "empires" in my time in the hobby.

CNJ831

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railroadyoshi

little bit over the side there[:D]
seriously, one can have loads of fun with a small layout. Even though Chip doesn't like 4x8's, his 4x8 has come out wonderfully!

I am not happy with my 4x8 because I planned it backwards. All my industrial spurs and my yard are facing forward. This is because I was building it for my kids to run their Hogwarts train. It was just luck that my crossovers make runarounds and I can switch. There is also the fact that I can't reach both my "yard" and the control panel at the same time. Switching several cars involves running rom one side of the layout to the other. I also didn't know what staging was so I didn't allow for it.

I can't turn around and run the other way because my although my engines runn pretty well on my 3.1% upgrade, they can't handle the 3.7% downgrade.

When I look back, I realize that these issuses would have been resolved had I used the same space my 4x8 takes and designed a U-shaped 9 x 13. And I encourage anyone to explore other options before they build.

That said, there are a lot of nice 4 x 8 well-thought out layouts out there. If you have a 4 x 8 layout I strongly encourage you to check out Byron's Clinic on operating on a 4 x 8 layout.

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=46614

Also, I am not totally unhappy with my layout. I'm growing to love it. I'm working hard on making it work and my son is enjoying it. I'm looking for a way to keep it once I have the space to build larger.

But know this, it is not the size of the layout that I don't like about the 4x8, it is the limitations by the shape. Because of the need to walk around the layout, the space the 4x8 uses can be better served by a shelf layout.

[railroadyoshi]

Glad to hear it, Chip. Perhaps though, maybe building this layout with its unresolved issues was a good thing, becuase when you start your 9x13 layout, you will know what to do and what not to do[:)]

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TA462

My layout is soon to become a 8x12 from a 10x16.

Iain Rice makes a very good point about keeping the size of your layout down to a managable size in his book, Mid-sized and Managable Track Plans. One of my favorite track plans I've seen is the Gary Indiana Steel Town in that book, a 12 x 12 layout.

One guy here, Jetrock, has a very sophisticated 2 x 6 HO layout.

[cwclark]

don't worry about what others think...if you are having a great time with your 4' x 8' then that's all that matters...I built 3 different 4' x 8' layouts in the past and didn't give a hoot about what any M R snob had to say about it....chuck

[joeyegarner]

You know it really dosen't matter if you have a large railroad, the most important thing is your happy with it. Mine have grown in size over the years s my experience did. I'm really glad just to see anyone in the hobby. Joey

[IRONROOSTER]

I started with a 4x8, then 6x6, then 8x10, then 4x8, and now 11x18. They were/are all fun. You do what you have room, time, and money for. I even had a couple of stretches where I had no layout - 4x8 would have been nice then. The important thing is to have fun.
Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

The reaons for 'discouraging' 4x8 is not that it is small. The point is that if you have room for 4x8 (8x12, if you are going to be able to walk around it and access all of it), you probably have room for a different shape (maybe smaller, square foot wise) layout that might be more satisfying.

[jpmorrison]

i started with a 4x8 layout now im up to a 24x24 foot layout i dont know if i will ever get done

jeff

[dgwinup]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

QUOTE: Originally posted by railroadyoshi

little bit over the side there[:D]
seriously, one can have loads of fun with a small layout. Even though Chip doesn't like 4x8's, his 4x8 has come out wonderfully!

I am not happy with my 4x8 because I planned it backwards. All my industrial spurs and my yard are facing forward. This is because I was building it for my kids to run their Hogwarts train. It was just luck that my crossovers make runarounds and I can switch. There is also the fact that I can't reach both my "yard" and the control panel at the same time. Switching several cars involves running rom one side of the layout to the other. I also didn't know what staging was so I didn't allow for it.

I can't turn around and run the other way because my although my engines runn pretty well on my 3.1% upgrade, they can't handle the 3.7% downgrade.

When I look back, I realize that these issuses would have been resolved had I used the same space my 4x8 takes and designed a U-shaped 9 x 13. And I encourage anyone to explore other options before they build.

That said, there are a lot of nice 4 x 8 well-thought out layouts out there. If you have a 4 x 8 layout I strongly encourage you to check out Byron's Clinic on operating on a 4 x 8 layout.

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=46614

Also, I am not totally unhappy with my layout. I'm growing to love it. I'm working hard on making it work and my son is enjoying it. I'm looking for a way to keep it once I have the space to build larger.

But know this, it is not the size of the layout that I don't like about the 4x8, it is the limitations by the shape. Because of the need to walk around the layout, the space the 4x8 uses can be better served by a shelf layout.

Chip,

Two words: walkaround control

Preferably wireless, but even tethered will give you better control from multiple locations.

How about posting a track plan and see if anyone has suggestions for simple improvements?

Darrell, walking about but quiet...for now

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dgwinup


Chip,

Two words: walkaround control

Preferably wireless, but even tethered will give you better control from multiple locations.

How about posting a track plan and see if anyone has suggestions for simple improvements?

Darrell, walking about but quiet...for now

I have a Digitrax Zephyr and 3 UT5 jacks. I can reach any part of the layout with a throttle. What I can't do is reach a car for ucoupling at half the places I need from the control panel where I throw the switches. So if I placed 3 cars on three tracks I would have to throw a switch, go to the other side and uncouple, go back and throw a switch, go to the other side and uncouple, go back and throw a switch, go to the other side and uncouple, go back and throw a switch...ergo the problem

The layout looks like this naked,

The control pannel is on theother side of the bridge. You can barely see it, it is black. Most of the switching is done in the "yard"--which is really industry set outs and engine service.

[Anonymous]

I have to take exception to your comment. I have a 4' x 8' and don't consider my layout any better or worse than others. It's my hobby. The size fits my needs (for now) though I aspire to having a larger layout some day...if the CFO will let me...LOL!

I have never felt talked down to by anyone in this forum because of the size of my layout. I am secure in the size of my layout [:I] (Yes I am still talking about trains...)

Trevor[:D]

[mondotrains]

Hi Folks,
I'm 57 years old and probably older than many of you on the forum and therefore will speak to you as a "father" would. For you older guys, I'm probably not telling you anything new that you haven't already discovered.

The size of the layout has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of fun you can have in this hobby. It's the "journey" that we must all learn to enjoy and not the finished product, whether it's trains, high school or college educations, or whatever endeavor we are embarked on.

Model railroading is all about going to train shows with a list of "wants"; driving to the local hobby shop and seeing what's new; getting on the internet like I did this morning and discovering a tank car at an on-line retailer that's been out of production for some time and now anxiously awaiting its arrival in the mail. Model railroading is getting as excited about that big train show coming up as we did waiting for Santa when we were 5 years old.

Trust me....I've seen huge layouts that lack the detail and drama of some of the 4 x 8' layouts I've seen. That doesn't make any layout better of worse. If someone is enjoying their layout....that's all that matters and nobody should discourage anyone.

I've said many times that if more people discovered model railroading, there would be a lot less problems in this world. Those guys that sit around drinking and smoking at the local bars would be closer to home and would be spending their money creating something they'd enjoy, rather than destroying their lungs and livers.

Well, enough of my "dad" philosophy.
Enjoy yourself....as one of my best friends always says.
Mondo

[Anonymous]

Hurray for all 4x8ers. I'll be starting construction of my 4x8 this weekend. I could go bigger, but 4x8 is a good starting point, being that this will be my first layout[:)].

Chip, you have a great trackplan, there! It's quite similar to my own, except mine has a double track mainline.

[Darth Santa Fe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by loathar

Some of the best looking ,most highly detailed, proffesional layouts I've ever seen where only a 4x 8 or 5x10.

That's because if you keep the layout small, you can afford to make the entire thing very detailed.[:D] I saw a 5'x10' layout in the new Dream-Plan-Build DVD that had mirrors around it and looked completely real![:D][:D]

[RedLeader]

Most of us started at 4'x8'.

[Anonymous]

4x8 = Misused space, In the space that you need for a confortable 4x8 and be able to walk around it, an around the walls dogbone could confortbly fit. 4x8 is good for beginners but once you get past that stage of your modeling you need to think about your space and how to use it wisely.

[Jetrock]

Indeed--the problem with a 4x8 is not that it's too small, but that the intact 4x8 sheet of plywood is a ridiculously inefficient use of the space! Consider that you need two feet of clearance around each side of the layout, that 4x8 foot layout (32 square feet) actually consumes a 6x12 area--72 square feet!

If you're going to burn that much space anyhow, consider cutting that 4x8 into two 1x8 and two 2x4 boards--put them together with the 8-footers outside and the 2x4 boards in the middle and you'll have an 8x8 foot layout, still with 32 square feet of layout but the potential for broader curves and excellent access due to the nice big hole in the middle of the layout! Trains always look best form the inside of a curve, too, so you get the additional aesthetic pleasure.

Or, if you're not hung up on watching the trains go 'round and 'round, you can saw that 4x8 into two 2x8 strips and build a shelf layout--2x16 if you have the wall space, or 8x10 in the corner of a room. The L-shaped corner layout has the advantage of room for a wye in the middle for turning locomotives, or you can use a turntable.

My layout is a shelf layout, currently 15'4" long. For the most part it is 1 foot deep, but it has a 2x2 "island" six feet in from one end. It takes up less than 18 square feet of space--a little over half of a 4x8 sheet of plywood. In that space I have a four-track yard with caboose spur and RIP track (total capacity about 30 cars), 5 industrial spurs with a capacity of 2 cars each, and a three-track freight house/engine service facility. Obviously, I don't have a loop--but then, I don't care for the round & round that much. I also don't have much scenery.

So, frankly, if I have criticisms of the 4x8, it is not because I don't think 32 square feet is enough room for a lot of railroading!

It's not how many square feet of layout you have, it's what you do with it!

[douginut]

I currently have no layout in plywood, just in my head and a little on paper (pixel to be true). I find 4x8 enormous, using the N-Scale that I mostly use.
My preferende is the idea of dominos or modules and none more than 2 feet wide around the room still letting me use the room for other things.
Just went from a 5br house with a full finished basement and a large garage to a 2 br duplex with NO basement, garage, or storage. Interesting.
Working on an around the room for the second bedroom that still leaves room for my office, and a Futon sofa for guests. (visiting grandkids).

Doug, in Utah