What did you do with your Dream-Plan-Build DVD?

[fec153]

Sent it back unseen. No extra $ for the hobby. Haven't added any rolling stock in over 2 years. Kept coin. Giving it to friend whose lost his legs and going blind from diabetes.[sp]
Phil

[railroadyoshi]

After watching the entire thing, I am DEFINITELY keeping it and paying the nine bucks. Not sure If I want any more though.

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

The hobby desperately needs more multimedia content to be produced ... hardcopy magazines just isn't going to cut it any more. I for one, am jumping up and down and saying YES! to this DVD distribution attempt, lame as it may be in some people's eyes.

I expect their efforts will be a success and those who are concerned about the unsolicited nature of the item are fretting about the wrong thing. I firmly believe without a move to multimedia methods of getting out information about the hobby, it's got maybe another 10-20 years left and then it's going to fade into obscurity right along with slot car racing.

Now THERE'S something to fret about. [xx(]

Joe, in no way meant as combative but I suggest that one has to step back and assess the hobby's demographics to appreciate whether there is likely to be any dramatic impact from the introduction of mass multimedia material offerings. Our hobby is composed, in the majority, of men over 55 who have been model railroad hobbyist for quite a number of years. Most are quite content and comfortable with the older, more familiar ways of approaching the hobby (i.e printed matter). It is a fact that those over 60 on average don't have computers, are not on-line, and do not rush out to purchase the latest state-of-the-art gizmo (including DVD's and their players) the hobby offers. In the main, computers, DCC, multimedia items such as DVDs are the province of "younger" modelers who are more accustom to today's digital society.

I definitely agree that efforts such as MR's DVD will succeed at least to a modest degree, particularly among younger hobbyists who have not previously seen the Tracks Ahead series or the even older MR instructional videos. However, I also strongly believe that they are not likely to create any great ground swell for innumerable further DVD offerings in the hobby community. And, since the DVD went only to MR subscribers, it is unlikely to generate any new hobby interest in the general populace. I feel it would have been far better for the hobby, from a recruiting standpoint, to have included the DVD in the newstand copies, in addition to sending it to magazine subscribers.

I will acknowledge that this is only my own opinion but it is based on my serious examination of the hobby's trends and statistics over many years.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

If this is something MR is sending to subscribers then I've been left out again. Not that that's something new. I've been left off their list for mailings, etc. before. They ARE very good at sending you subscription reminders 18 months in advance though.

Sounds like it might be something worth watching though.

Roger

[dragenrider]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the bonus footage material. [:O] I though that was a great add on and a real help guide for anyone starting the hobby. I particularly like the suggestion of using it for a clinic to introduce people to the hobby.

Over all, I appreciate Kalmbach's efforts to expand their horizons (and ours). But, like the many here, I'm not too sure about the prices for the next editions.

I wonder if the folks from MR are eyeing the poll and watching the numbers. [8)] It's anonymous, so you can vote with no comment. I think the numbers will give a good indication to the overall response to the DVD mailing.

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

Joe, in no way meant as combative but I suggest that one has to step back and assess the hobby's demographics to appreciate whether there is likely to be any dramatic impact from the introduction of mass multimedia material offerings. Our hobby is composed, in the majority, of men over 55 who have been model railroad hobbyist for quite a number of years. Most are quite content and comfortable with the older, more familiar ways of approaching the hobby (i.e printed matter). It is a fact that those over 60 on average don't have computers, are not on-line, and do not rush out to purchase the latest state-of-the-art gizmo (including DVD's and their players) the hobby offers. In the main, computers, DCC, multimedia items such as DVDs are the province of "younger" modelers who are more accustom to today's digital society.

CNJ831

CNJ:

Actually, I think we basically agree. I also see the babyboomers as the last of the "hugeness" to the hobby in terms of head count, but I do see the hobby continuing, albeit smaller, *IF* the hobby media learns to really leverage the internet and digital media.

While we don't need to do anything really to keep the old kodgers in the hobby (maybe the fountain of youth would help ...), the hobby media is falling behind on leveraging the media sources that influence the younger generation -- namely the internet and video.

For the current generation, the printed page is passe'. Newspaper and magazine subscriptions have been dropping in the last decade with the advent of the internet and now DVDs. And it's Kalmbach's move to do *something* to address going beyond the printed page that I applaud. [swg]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dragenrider

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the bonus footage material. [:O] I though that was a great add on and a real help guide for anyone starting the hobby. I particularly like the suggestion of using it for a clinic to introduce people to the hobby.

Over all, I appreciate Kalmbach's efforts to expand their horizons (and ours). But, like the many here, I'm not too sure about the prices for the next editions.

I wonder if the folks from MR are eyeing the poll and watching the numbers. [8)] It's anonymous, so you can vote with no comment. I think the numbers will give a good indication to the overall response to the DVD mailing.

www.modelrailroadforums.com has a thread by myself and others about this disk and some of the material related to the bonus section which as quite good.

I will be looking forward to the next DVD in the series

[jfugate]

The thread of which Highiron speaks can be found at:
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2405

The modelrailroadforums.com site can be hard to navigate at times, so the direct link above should make it easier to find the discussion.

[dgwinup]

I have to applaud MR for this new direction, and what I consider to be a fair marketing technique.

Joe is right, IMO, that model railroading needs to go for the multi-media approach. Maybe the mainstays of the hobby, 55 yr old men, don't use computers much, but their kids and grandkids do! Big time! These are the people that the hobby should be trying to reach, and in today's world, multi-media is the key to reaching them.

As to the marketing technique, there is one major difference between MR and others that I have received. With MR, you can keep the DVD. No charge, no future editions sent for your approval. You keep it, it's over. You can send it back. Once again, no charge, no future editions sent for your approval. You can pay $9.00 and receive future editions for approval. I think this is a good approach.

Other marketeers don't let you off so easily. Whatever they send you, be it an item of value or an offer to send the item, they want to send you more, "on approval". You have to take an action to PREVENT receiving future offers. If you forget to decline the offer, they send it to you. You are stuck with paying to return it or to pay for keeping it. And as long as you 'forget' to reply, they keep sending you stuff that you didn't order and probably don't want. I dislike this technique immensely. I am aware that unsolicited gifts are just that: gifts. I can keep them without having to pay for them. But read the fine print. Often it says that if you keep it, you are agreeing to accepting more 'offers'. That's when I get on the phone and thank them personally for the 'gift' they sent me and inform them I have no intention of either paying for it or returning it. I never have any more trouble from them. But I still had to take a positive action to prevent further solicitations.

MR's offer is a one-time proposal and if you don't respond, it's over and done with. Yes, they apply a little guilt. "Return it so we can give it to another modeler who may be interested." If you don't return it, you are DEPRIVING another modeler of the chance to get a copy. Tough cookies. I doubt if any subscriber is going to be deprived of getting a DVD just because I kept the one they sent me. I'm sure MR knows the risk that many will not subscribe nor will they return the DVD. And they have built that into their marketing plan.

All in all, it's not a marketing plan that is offensive to me. And the benefits of starting multi-media marketing may mean the difference in this hobby surviving beyond the next 20 years. To my small brain, this is the right way for MR to proceed.

Of course, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong.

Darrell, doubting any mistakes, but quiet...for now

[dougfearon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DavidGSmith

I am a subscriber and did not get it yet. Are they sending to Canada? With the exchange I pay a lot for the mag. The subscrption only comes due when the dollars are far apart. Just my luck.

I like David am also in Canada and did not know it existed until reading this forum. Does anyone know if it is coming north of the border? My DVD player needs some new input.[8D]

[skiloff]

I'm up here, too, and haven't got anything. I've always felt we've been a little stiffed up here anyway with certain offers. I could really get some guys going by suggesting an electronic subscription for the magazine like many newspapers are now doing. That way, everyone gets it the day its published and printing and shipping charges are dramatically decreased (much lower overhead). Plus, if they add little movie clips in, more may be interested in it. Obviously, they'd still need to do a printed version, but oh well. I'll see if this gets some guys going...

[Anonymous]

Got it, watched it, kept it, and sent the nine bucks for it. $25 per DVD is awfully steep, considering I don't pay that much for new-release blockbuster movies! Unless the material is a must-have, I doubt I would keep too many of them. They have to bring it down to at least $20, including shipping, to make it viable.

As far as why some people here didn't get the intro DVD yet, there was an email I got shortly before getting the DVD that I recieved it based on my customer preferences. I'm guessing those were from some MR poll I filled out whenever. I seem to remember filling one out a while back, and it had questions about video mags in it.

I think the key to making these things succeed is having lots of modeling techniques demonstrated step by step. Some of us just need to "see" it being done to really "get it", as opposed to those who can read it in a book and crank out beautiful scenery etc.

As far as the marketing technique, they give you the mailer, the return label, and postage paid. If you don't want it, it takes a grand total of maybe three minutes to send it back. Get the burr out of your saddle and lighten up.

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by yankeejwb

Got it, watched it, kept it, and sent the nine bucks for it. $25 per DVD is awfully steep, considering I don't pay that much for new-release blockbuster movies! Unless the material is a must-have, I doubt I would keep too many of them. They have to bring it down to at least $20, including shipping, to make it viable.

Comparing the price of a niche special interest video to a Hollywood blockbuster video isn't a fair comparison. They're light years apart in terms of potential market volume. When you can sell to millions of consumers, you can get the price per video down much lower -- that's just basic economics. At the volumes model railroad videos sell to (thousands for the wildly successful ones), the Hollywood guys would consider to be a dismal failure.

What's fair is to compare MR's DPB video to a Keller layout video or a Pentrex Train video.

The Keller DVDs sell for $45 list, and the typical Pentrex DVD sells for $30, list. Typical video running time for a Keller or a Pentrex video is 60 minutes.

With that in mind, even a $25 price is great deal, and the $9 price is an absolute steal. [swg]

P.S. If you'll permit me a personal example as well, my Siskiyou Line video series has a typical running time of 80 minutes and a price of $29.95 per DVD -- which is 30% more content than a Keller or a Pentrex video -- all for no more than the cost of the typical Pentrex video.

[howmus]

Just got the DVD today. Have only had time to take a peek at it. So far it seems well done and informative. Comparing MR to the Con game type of marketing where "we sent it to you without asking, now sent us the product back or we bill you for it" is unfair. The DVD series, if you pay for #1, still has the option of sending any DVD back to Model Railroader Mag post paid. From the Ad: "You decide with each DVD whether to add it to your collection, or return it at no cost, using the postage-paid return label supplied with every DVD. No minimum purchases, no obligation and no catch!" Sounds like a very fair deal for those of us in the hobby. Much better than, "You may have won $10,000,000,000.00." Yeh right! [:D]

[dave9999]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate
While we don't need to do anything really to keep the old kodgers in the hobby (maybe the fountain of youth would help ...), the hobby media is falling behind on leveraging the media sources that influence the younger generation -- namely the internet and video.

Joe,
(In my best Lee Corso voice) Not so fast, my friend![:)]
There are hundreds of internet resources available. As a matter of fact, I am neither
an old kodger or a member of the younger generation, but when I decided to really
get involved in model railroading, I got MOST of my information from the internet. I
got almost no info from printed material or videos.
I did buy Model Railroader magazine, but it had nowhere near the influence on my
decisions, on what to buy or how to proceed, as what I researched in the web.

The internet is full of modeling infomation... and is more accessible to newbies than
having to go out and buy books, magazines and DVD's or order them.

The internet is like RTR. It offers instant gratifacation. The younger generation needs
only to do a web search to find tons of information... This forum is a good example.

I agree that there could always be more, but I don't think that there is a shortage of internet
based information. Good luck, Dave

[icmr]

Before I opened it I decided to keep it then I watched it. I plan on keeping all of them.
Everything on it is very good.



ICMR

Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]

[donhalshanks]

I kept it and sent in the $9. To me, it is one other way to augment the fine how-to material in MR and the special editions that are printed. I for one, grasp a solution better when I see it being done. I thought the quality was excellent. Of course, I'm in the stage of building a layout right now, so I suck up anything that helps me. It might not be as much interest to the veteran modeler.

If the future price is $25, then it will have to be excellent and pertinent, because that will have to compete heavily with my $'s to spend on building the layout!

I'll defend the introductory promotion. I think this is a product that is far more appealing in your hands and your DVD, than it could ever be through a magazine ad or a flats promotional mailing, or being moved to ask for a 30-day look see. And since its a bobby I enjoy, I had no trouble getting it in the mail without asking.

Hal

[IRONROOSTER]

Frankly, I like it and am sending in my $9.

I thought their marketing technique was very good. It enabled me to watch it in my home and make a considered decision. If I had to respond to an ad, I probably wouldn't have bothered. So they made a sale they wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Considering you can keep it for free, throw it away, or mail it back in their mailer at their expense I don't see why some of you have your drawers in an uproar over this.

I hope they do a subscription at a reduced cost.

Enjoy
Paul

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by IRONROOSTER

Frankly, I like it and am sending in my $9.

I thought their marketing technique was very good. It enabled me to watch it in my home and make a considered decision. If I had to respond to an ad, I probably wouldn't have bothered. So they made a sale they wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Considering you can keep it for free, throw it away, or mail it back in their mailer at their expense I don't see why some of you have your drawers in an uproar over this.

IRON:

I couldn't agree more. Those who just sent it back without viewing it are only hurting themselves. I'm sure MR has factored into the mix some who will watch it, keep it, and never pay for it. In fact, they say right in the mailer that you can consider it a gift and keep it if you wish.

How much more accommodating can a company get? Getting angry at Kalmbach isn't going to do anything except raise your blood pressure -- and rob you or someone you know of a nice promo item for the hobby. [swg]

[Anonymous]

I really thought that it was a great price for what I got. I'm still in the learning stages of my layout, and it helped to re-motivate me. It's easy to get stuck and frustrated when you don't have the experience or knowledge to accomplish something and I think the DVD with the printable info is perfect for someone like me. Besides, half the fun is watching the trains go 'round, whether it's on my layout or someone elses.

[Adelie]

To sum this up, some loved it, some found it useful, some were unmoved by it, some thought it could have been better, some haven't seen it and some never got it.

As far as the marketing, some think it is brilliant, some have not thought about it, some hated it.

My suggestion to Kalmbach is that before they send out anything else to their subscribers, they probably want to give them a means to opt out of future unsolicited product mailings. By sending it only to existing subscribers, they are not going to generate new subscribers. At best, they could keep some that were going to let their subscriptions lapse. However, those who do not like the marketing technique may get irritated enough cancel their subscriptions to avoid getting more of this type of marketing merely because they subscribe.

There is probably not a surprise in any of that.

[Anonymous]

I thought the video mundane, and it isn't particularly useful for me. If they had leveraged the medium to do in-depth clinics or layout visits, I might have been more intrigued. I'd love to see a video half on background painting (i.e. 45 minutes, in-depth, basics up to advanced) and half a true in-depth visit to a great layout - going over the layout, but also benchwork, operations, technical (DCC or not? How wired? How switches controlled, any automation?), detailed scenicking techniques, etc.

Having said that, I thought is was a nice overview DVD and probably well worth the $9, just not to me. If this were a "preview" DVD, and each of the "segments" in it was going to be the subject of a future DVD of its own, I'd be all over it.

As to the marketing technique, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not going to condemn it to the extent some others do, but I expect more from MR than to try and 'monetize the subscription base' with this sort of Publisher's Clearing House tactic. The "sure you could keep it if you're a ***" message was rather buried in the letter, the response card didn't make clear there was any option other than "keep it and pay or send it back"... It's the same "buti t's in the fine print..." thing where most people really believed they had to order a magazine to enter the PCH sweepstakes (or at least that it helped their chances).

MR: I'd rather you send me a card offering me a free DVD preview and THEN send it if I respond. I probably would if it seemed interesting, I'd be certainly be more likely to actually order the thing, and your mailing costs would be less.

Alternatively, apply the magazine model. Let advertisers buy 30 second spots between segments and/or bundle flyers and slicks with it. Then send it to subscribers free, or at least at rock-bottom prices like $5. I'd have no problem with that.

On the other hand, I can't really condemn it too much because I can't really object to getting free stuff in the mail. But in the future I _will_ be treating it as just that - a free gift. Having played "nice guy" and sent it back this time, I will keep any 'gifts' I get in the future.

[Noah Hofrichter]

I was impressed by parts, but I wasn't as much by others. I had almost decided to send it back, until I saw the part on Air Brushing. This is fantastic!!!! It's exactly what a young and learning custom painter like me needed!!! I've read literature on it, but seeing it is far better!! So I am keep this first one and sending in the money, but I won't be getting any further ones, not for $25(yikes!!). For some, $25 may not be bad, but for a person who groans when he parts with 60 dollars to buy a new locomotive, I don't think I'll be getting the CD's, the WSOR has a GP38 and Gondola models coming out soon....

Noah

[potlatcher]

They say we may keep the DVD, but they would prefer we send it back so they can offer it to someone else.

I'm keeping it so that I can offer it to someone else. Most of the material was too "introductory" for me, but I think this would make a great item to pass on to one of my friends or co-workers if they express an interest in the hobby.

As for future releases, I just can't afford $25 a pop. I figure that many of these DVD's will find their way to e-Bay or the train shows. If there is ever one that has something of interest to me I can pick it up later on the used market.

Tom

[maandg]

I plan on paying the $9.00, keeping the DVD and purchasing all future editions. I love any and all published materials on the hobby. In fact, I'm obsessed with them. To illustrate my point, I submit the following list of media I own:

All of the early Kalmbach how-to and Layout Tour videos

All three of Joe Fugate's DVDs (plus pre-purchasing the last two volumes)

All 51 of Allen Keller's Great Model Railroads tapes

All of Dave Frary's Trackside Modeler how-to videos

Every issue of Model Railroad Planning and Great Model Railroads

Subscriptions to Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman, Mainline Modeler, Rail Model Journal and Model Railroading

Hundreds of back issues of each of the afore mentioned magazines, including MR and RMC back to 1970.

Countless books on prototype railroads.

Nearly every Kalmbach how-to book made in the last 30 years

Assorted other prototype and model videos too numerous to mention.

I think I need to be involved in a 12-step program for addicted model railroaders!!! The sad truth is that if each magazine published an issue weekly, I would be a sucker for them ALL!! The same holds true for DVDs. My only disappointment with the new Dream-Plan-Build DVD was that it was made up of previously released material. I already own every how-to clip shown - on DVD even!!!

But as I've shamefully admitted, I can't help myself

must....not.....purchase........................losing...strength...to resist........awww, screw it - I'll take them ALL!

Seriously, my hope is that future releases will not continue to cash in on old material. Even I can't pay $25 for something I already own...maybe.

[jskerbaugh]

Watched mine approx. 75% of the way through and intended to send the $9. During the airbrush segment, the DVD quit working and the remaining program could not be viewed. I returned the DVD with a note and requested that I have a chance to audition future programs.
jskerbaugh

[Big_Boy_4005]

After almost 2 weeks mine is still sitting, unwatched, on my desk. In all honesty, it wasn't something I would have run out and bought anyway. So, watch it or not, I won't opt in. The question is whether to keep it or send it back, either way it will be the last.

However the bigger dilema is whether to keep my subscription to the magazine itself, as the November issue is still sitting on my coffee table untuoched after a week. This is not due to lack of time, more to lack of interest in the content. The only real reason I can think of to renew, is to continue a tradition. I have 56 years worth in binders.

[trainboyH16-44]

I still haven't gotten mine, but I'm thinking coaster.....
IF I don't like it that is.
Matthew

[darkstar974]

I kept mine and sent in the 9 bucks but the jury is out over future dvd's

[Anonymous]

According to the lady behind the phone when I called in my payment, she said that the DPB DVD is being very successful!