my apologies to the MR staff

[cwclark]

I would like to apologize to the MR staff for blowing up at them in an e-mail i sent the editor when the forum went down...sorry guys...I do have a very boring job at times and the forum does help pass the time of day when i'm not at home working on the trains not to mention the real good ideas and things i've learned here and the joy i get from helping others with their train questions / problems....my momma always said i was hot headed at times...I think she's right...please except my apology ....so ....back to the world's greatest hobby...model railroading!....thanks for bringing the forum back so quickly...chuck

[tstage]

Chuck,

Thanks for posting your apology. It takes a real man to admit when he was wrong. However, I'd encourage you to send one to Bergie and the others directly, too. [:)]

Tom

[Anonymous]

He may be in their spam box [:O]

Honestly, I am sure you aren't the only one that was upset, and I am sure they understand. Still thanks for admitting your mistake.

[Tracklayer]

I want to apologize also - for what I was thinking at least... I was ready to get out the pitchfork, make tourches and gather a group of like minded angry people together to go up into the hills and hunt down the monster!. Oh wait. I thought I was on the Frankenstien forum. Sorry...

Seriously though. I was very concerned that something really bad had happened that might shut the forum down completely, and that would have been terrible because I enjoy chatting with you guys very much. You're all like a bunch of kin folks to me here.

Tracklayer

[selector]

Funny, but I had no doubts that this was a temporary situation to safeguard the integrity of Kalmbach's forum as a direct result of our feeding the troll. It really is that very simple explanation. Shut her down, let them stew and learn a lesson, and then magananimously re-open the forum on Monday when it can be monitored.

I have faith...we'll learn...eventually.

[BudKarr]

If only it were true .....

Self control and knowing when to do and not to do just does not seem to be the rule of the day in cyber space.

Kalmbach did what it had to do and for those who wish it did not have to be, I would suggest that the outcome could have been far worse.

Many of the abusers are still out there and do not even recognize that they are doing so!

BK

[ARTHILL]

The best thing I have heard in this is the advice to not feed the trolls. I am a courious person, but there are times when it is best just not to look.

[Tracklayer]

I admit that I have a bad habit of jumping on trolls for being vulgar, off topic, etc which I'm going to have to get better control of. I forget at times that I'm just a member of the forum and not the forum police...

Tracklayer

[jfugate]

DFTTF

(Don't feed the trolls food)

That's all the post we all should make to any future troll attempts that get through to the forum.

They love flaming responses. But if all they are are a steady stream of

DFTTF

... they'll not get the gratification they're after.

[AntonioFP45]

One habit that I've been practicing regularly.

I'll read a trolls comments....if it's something that had the potential to be turned into a useful thread, then I try to contribute to it positively. JNIchols did this with an MTH troller.

[b]If comments get trashy, I e-mail Bergie asap. Why should someone be allowed to sling garbage in our yard? The topic is soon deleted or locked and the troll is warned and/or sent packing.

The rest of us get to move forward and enjoy the forum.

[espeefoamer]

Trolls are like gremlins.
1.Don't get them wet.
2.Keep them out of the light.
3.Never,no matter how much the plead,no matter how
much they beg,NEVER feed them after midnight.
( or in the case of trolls,NEVER feed them EVER,under
ANY circumstances).

[edkowal]

Years ago, I was a very active participant on a forum on an internet service provider's site. When flames started to erupt, I would try to politely point out to the person lighting the fires that this is not usually the best way to get your point across. I'd also try to make whatever point I was trying to make in as reasonable a fashion as possible. I didn't always succeed at either. Nobody does.

If, however, the flames or provocations continued, I considered that a situation for the forum moderators, or administrators. That's one of the thingstwhat they're there for. It does no good to continue the discussion, as as stated here, is probably what the provocateur really wants. ( How's "provocateur" for a $5 word, eh? )

-Ed in Buffalo NY, just across the Peace Bridge from Canada, eh ?

[JohnT14808]

I'm wondering why the MR forum doesn't have some of the state of the art software that allows the forum moderators to lock down the DSN address of the troll ( how they are found on the Internet.) I have belonged to other forums that have this ability and they never seem to have problems. Once someone tips the Admin to a troller, some moderators observe for a bit, then take action. LOCKED!! Even if the troller goes to another computer, that address ends up locked as well, and any other that the troller uses to abuse the priviledges of the forum.
It really is a shame that the entire forum has to be 'punished' because of one or two trollers.[censored] I also apologize for my emails, which were non-flammitory, but sent to both the webmaster and the forum itself. I'll bet they got many, many emails asking why the forum was down.

[rrinker]

I'm sure they do. But who's awake and working at 3am? Things were taken care of just as soon as people like Bergie got into work the next morning.

--Randy

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JohnT14808

I'm wondering why the MR forum doesn't have some of the state of the art software that allows the forum moderators to lock down the DSN address of the troll ( how they are found on the Internet.)

John, I believe you are referring to the troll's IP address and locking that down, which is something you can do, probably even with this software. However, that is only marginally effective.

Most ISPs (internet service providers) today have dynamic IP addressing, which means every time you log in you get a different IP address, so the locking down of an IP would only be good until the offender logged out and back in.

You can block groups of IP addresses, but then you run the risk of nixing anyone who uses that ISP. So it's not a perfect solution, and that's the problem.

And Randy's point is well taken, too. Who wants to be up at 2 am in the morning to moderate the forum?

But your point on the software is very true. The Snitz software Kalmbach's using for this forum is late 90's vintage, which makes it approaching prehistoric status in internet terms. A serious forum software update is in order, and it will have some more bells and whistles for doing automatic forum validation -- not to mention it would be faster and have more cool tools for us forum posters to use.

[BRAKIE]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

DFTTF

(Don't feed the trolls food)

That's all the post we all should make to any future troll attempts that get through to the forum.

They love flaming responses. But if all they are are a steady stream of

DFTTF

... they'll not get the gratification they're after.

Joe,Being a moderator on 2 forums and a Admin on 1 forum I can assure you that is NOT the best way to handle a troll..The BEST WAY is to CONTACT the MODERATOR and let him/her judge the post and then do their job IF NEEDED.
As far as blocking a IP Addy that can and has been done successfully without harm to innocent new members..
Again The BEST WAY is to CONTACT the MODERATOR and let him/her judge the post and then do their job IF NEEDED. The members are not moderators period..Let the moderators and Admin do THEIR job in handling trolls and off keyed topics.

[BRAKIE]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

I'm sure they do. But who's awake and working at 3am? Things were taken care of just as soon as people like Bergie got into work the next morning.

--Randy

Randy,On the private forums you can usually bet there is a mod or Admin checking the forums 24/7..Atlas now monitors their forum more then they have in the past.

[rrinker]

That works if you have non-employees as moderators. But liek I mentioned before, there may be legal issues to that since this web site is wholly owned by Kalmbach and is not private venture. On our game site we do have users with administrator rights who are in Europe, so there is pretty much around the clock monitoring. And at least one of the Yahoo groups I am on has a moderator from outside the US, so when it's 3am here, he's wide awake and available to deal with problems.

--Randy

[BRAKIE]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

That works if you have non-employees as moderators. But liek I mentioned before, there may be legal issues to that since this web site is wholly owned by Kalmbach and is not private venture. On our game site we do have users with administrator rights who are in Europe, so there is pretty much around the clock monitoring. And at least one of the Yahoo groups I am on has a moderator from outside the US, so when it's 3am here, he's wide awake and available to deal with problems.

--Randy

Randy,I agree..Sadly this is impossible with Corporate ran forums..So,there is that constant danger of being plaque with trolls.. [:(!]
Again The BEST WAY is to CONTACT the MODERATOR and let him/her judge the post and then do their job IF NEEDED and the members not respond at all to a troll.

[Anonymous]

Good idea

[Anonymous]

I think if you guys keep talking about trolls, they may come back, they already know they can bring down the forum, if that was the reason, and with all the talk going on (2 1/2 days after the unlock, 4 days since the lockdown), they also know they have all the members talking about it. I would drop it and get on with model railroading. Not a bash, just a concern...

[grayfox1119]

The best way to keep trolls and other dimwitted people from causing this havoc is:
1. Do not allow anyone to post on the forum who is not a registered member.
2. Have a waiting period of 6 to 8 hours for registration to discourage trolls.
3. Registration MUST include all the necessary info to identify the user.
4. As mentioned already, do NOT engage these fools, they will soon disappear when no one falls for their trap.
5. Report to Bergie/Administrators right away so they can pull the plug on these guys.
6. Do NOT get hostile with Bergie et al, they are doing their best, they did not cause the problem, in fact some of the guys made the problem worse by answering this fool. If you do send angry messages, think about it....WHO is sitting back having a good laugh saying " I got them". DON'T WHACK A HORNETS NEST !!!!!

[dgwinup]

I was able to read the sticky Bergie posted before the forum went down. After it went down, I politely e-mailed Bergie for an explanation and expressed my concerns about shutting the forum down forever.

First thing Monday morning, I received a very short, but complete, explanation from Bergie and shortly afterwards, the forum was back up.

I think Bergie and Kalmbach handled this attack very well considering it occurred late on Friday. The only thing to do was shut it down until the problem could be resolved on Monday. It was resolved, and rather quickly on Monday.

We own Kalmbach an expression of thanks, and they now have mine!

Darrell, thankfully quite...for now

[Anonymous]

hmmm. well, since i'm new to this forum, i'm not too sure what was going on, but,
i've since picked up on it a little from reading this thread. And it seems like David's comments are right on!!!

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

DFTTF

(Don't feed the trolls food)

Joe,Being a moderator on 2 forums and a Admin on 1 forum I can assure you that is NOT the best way to handle a troll..The BEST WAY is to CONTACT the MODERATOR and let him/her judge the post and then do their job IF NEEDED.

Brakie:

I think we basically agree, but the trolls on here tend to attack in the off hours when there is no moderator in sight.

In the meantime, people can't resist and they will post all kinds of inflamatory stuff, much to troll's delight.

I'm recommending if a troll starts smoke bombing the forum in off hours and you just have to respond, then please just type DFTTF -- it's a nice simple response that you can make if you just can't sit still until Bergie shows up the next morning. A stream of DFTTF's is far better than whipping up the flames in the off hours when there's no moderator around.

As much as we'd all like to believe we can convince everyone to just ignore the troll, many won't be able to control themselves and will have to post something.

DFTTF over and over is far better than feeding the troll, is all I'm saying.

But for gosh sakes, if you can muster the will power, just ignore the suckers and notify Bergie. That's even better.

[Anonymous]

In reading Terry Thompson's post regarding the forums, I think the greater concern here is minimizing "editorial" time to keep the forum under control from both trolls and hot headed members. My E-Mail to Bergie Friday morning could have been more helpful if I had done the "homework" of gathering and listing the names of all the trollers attacking us. Rather I "suggested" that we were under attack by idiots for a second time, and he had to read through the threads to find the extent of the problem. For that I appologise, and will try to be more "informative" if the problem arises again. Let's hope this wek end is forum full, and troll free.
Will

[Train 284]

Good man! Way to go.

[loathar]

It's not in my nature to not flame a troll, but I will use more restraint in the future.
CWClark-Hopefully they will ACCEPT

[Rob Davies]

I'm a member of many online forums (fora?) and this is something I found several years back, it has served its' purpose well since that time......

A visual representation of 'DFTTF'



A simple message for us all, I only wish I was strong willed enough to heed it all the time.

Which reminds me of a definition of stress:

'The inability to choke the living daylights out of someone who desperately needs it.... '[;)]

Let's not get stressed people... Trolls win if we do.

Move along.... Nothing more to see here....

-Rob