?:Train stations and stub ended terminals

[DigitalGriffin]

After reading several books and drafting several rough train station layouts, I have discovered 1 thing. A six track train station takes a LOT of length with standard ladder layout. Even a pinwheel layout takes a good bit of space.

A popular solution proposed by John Armstrong was to use stub ended terminals (Like union station) The engine would simply pull into the station, then use a run around track to latch to the former tail of the train.

But what happens if you have a tail car. Once you use your round around track, your tail car/caboose is on the wrong end!

The only solution I can think of is to use a Wye turnaround. First the train would disconnect, then it would disconnect the last train, then turn it around in the Wye, the shove it to the new back end using the round around track.

Is this right? This sounds very time consuming and complex. Or are there other solutions?

I was wondering if a series of double slip turnouts save me room on both ends? Are they pratical to use?

[cacole]

At stub ended stations such as Union Station in Saint Louis, Missouri, the road locomotives would be disconnected from the train and run off onto a siding. A switcher would then couple to the rear of the train and push it the rest of the way into the station.

After the passengers disembarked, the switcher pulled the train back out of the station through a turnaround wye. The switcher then disconnected and the road engines pushed the cars back into the station for boarding.

No through trains were handled at Saint Louis -- everything ended there. If a passenger wanted to travel through to a different destination, they had to change trains, and in may cases even railroads, in Saint Louis.

How they would do this for through trains where not all passengers must disembark, I have no idea.

[jimrice4449]

When I ran into the St Louis Union Station in the late 40s the road power remained on the train. The train pulled by and then backed into the depot. When unloaded the whole outfit backed out of the depot and went to the yard of whatever RR was involved. For outbound trains the proceedure was reversed w/ the whole outfit backing into the depot. I've always thought St Louis would be a really great basis for a 'Psgr Freak's" model RR w/ the double wyes and all and the elimination of the need for a special turning movement.
The big drawback to a stub terminal is that the engine is trapped in the stub track unless you either include an escape track between every 2 platform tracks or pull the train by and back in. One solution that I used was to punch a hole in one wall and make a double ended depot with about 4 ft of lead extending into a sort of rabbit hutch type of add on (since expanded to a 12 X 24 ft extension w/ a 23 track yard for trains 10-17 cars long...not an option available to all..)
To turn the trains I installed a reverse loop around my psgr eng terminal.

[Anonymous]

could you use a turntable? i don't know if they used them or not but, mybe you could pull cars on there then just pu***hem back in to the terminal i

[MisterBeasley]

The September MR has a whole article about prototype passenger ops. It's an interesting read.

[selector]

John Armstrong also took the time to explain that wyes were often used near terminals, and included at least one photo and diagram in his book on Realistic Operation.

[Anonymous]

A couple of years ago the family and I made a round trip on Amrak's Capitol Limited (Chicago-Washongton DC). Upon returning to Chicago, the whole train went into a wye and backed into Chicago's Union Station before the passengers disembarked.

[jrbernier]

Stub ended Depot's usually have a 'wye' servicing the throught tracks. The St Paul Union Depot has 22 tracks, 7 of them were 'stub' tracks(used by GN loacals originating/terminating at St Paul). The remaining tracks were of the 'thru' type and there was a 'jct' on one end and a large 'wye' jct on the east end. The depot had to handle thru and terminating trrains so used elements of each type of design. SPUD even had a roundhouse/turntable in the middle of the wye.
For out local club layout, we are planning a 4 track 'thru' type of division point arrangement - There is a 'wye' about 15' from the east throat for turning trains. The only trains that would originate/terminate there might be a local....

Jim Bernier

[csmith9474]

As stated above, a lot of trains backed into stub terminals. This would seem to be the easiest solution.

[SirPeter]

I'm new here - What's a "Wye Turnaround"?

[SpaceMouse]

At our club we have a stub passenger terminal and we decided not to have any crossover because that makes uses up two tracks.

Instead we have an arrival area where the passenger train pulls in and disconnects the loco. A switcher postioned in a pocket backs the train in. If there is a car that needs to be turned. It is pulled over to the turntable and turned. It is then put back into a departing track or stored. If need it is rejoined with the train it came off of.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SirPeter

I'm new here - What's a "Wye Turnaround"?

Think of a 3-point trun in your car.

Now think of the path you took to turn around and layou down track in that path. If each point were named with letters, A, B, C...

A train pulls into a "wye" turnout A and heads toward "wye" B. It pulls past B and the turnout is switched. The train then backs through B and past C. C is switched and the train pulls forward out through A consumating a turn around.

[claycts]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SirPeter

I'm new here - What's a "Wye Turnaround"?

Look at the letter "Y" each leg is a track. The "V" of the "Y" is the incoming and outgoing, the TAIL is the pocket that is as long as the longet unit to turn PLUS 3" for safety. Atlas and other mfg's make "WYE" tunouts.
Hope this helped.
George P.

[BR60103]

Toronto isn't a stub, but they used to have a reverse loop (or two) for turning entire trainsets. I've watched the Canadian being turned this way.
One way to do the wye is to have the station at right angles to the main tracks and have access from each direction. The train can either pull past the station and back in, or pull straight in and back out the other side.
Hamilton, Ont., was located a few miles down the other main line from Bayview Junction and eastbound trains would back into the station, while westbounds would back out.

[Paul3]

WRT the original post...

At South Station in Boston, MA, the New Haven and Boston & Albany (NYC) would head into the terminal and stop the loco at the bumper. This would result in the passengers walking by the engine, some of whom would stop and say thanks for the ride.

After the passengers "de-trained" (Amtrak term), a switcher would tie on to the rear, and pull the train out of the terminal, engines and all. The whole thing could be run through the balloon track near-by, or pulled into the Dover St. yards and broken up by type. Meanwhile, the road power would be dropped off at the roundhouse where a hogger crew would take over and "turn" the power.

At my old club, we ran into the terminal head first. There was a magnet under the train shed, with a push button operated dead spot just after it. After allowing the "passengers" off, the road power would use the magnet to uncouple, and then pull forward a bit. Then the yard switcher would couple up to the rear, turn the observation on the turntable, the pull the whole train up into the coach yard (except for the baggage cars, they stayed on the mail and express track). Then the road power would back out to the turntable and get spotted in the roundhouse or ready tracks.

Paul A. Cutler III
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Weather Or No Go New Haven
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