Problems with wet rocks

[FJ and G]

I made my harbor last night and included some shallow and deep areas. I don't get my camera until next week so can't post pictures until then.

Here's the problem: In the shallow areas where I placed small rocks amidst sand and gravel, the Envirotex crept up over the rocks and all of them now look wet. I'm unsure how to correct this, but no one but me would probably notice. Modelers often correct this flaw along the banks by simply pouring more gravel but out in the water, this isn't feasible if you want small rocks to be partially submerged amongst the gravel farther from shore. I think I'll take Envirotex to court and sue them (just kidding).

[Anonymous]

could you cut or scrape it off? you could paint the rocks mat again whatever colour they where? I would try to use chemicals though, might spread. ;-DD

[Anonymous]

Where Envirotex crept up on my banks and rocks, I've just painted out the shiny stuff with a suitable flat paint. You could also use some Dullcoat brushed on.

Bob Boudreau

[nfmisso]

David;

Bob's solution is the best you can do now. Check out some of his published photos.

For future reference "paint" the part of the rock you want not to be "wet" with rubber cement before pouring the Envirotex or any other "water", then peel it off after the water has set up.

[Anonymous]

Get your lawyer to E-Mail Environtex to see if they have a suggestion for a fix! [;)][:D]
Tell those model people no more water skiing and big wakes until the water is dry!!!
Will

[davekelly]

I'll agree with Nigel that Bob has the best (and perhaps easiest) solution. Of course, like you said, most people won't notice but then it is often the things that only I notice that bugs me the most.

[jfugate]

My solution is similar to Bob's ... for this scene, after pouring the envirotex, I mixed up a batch of my plaster - tempera powder (see my scenery FORUM CLINIC thread: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=1&TOPIC_ID=32122 ) and painted the rocks with it.


(click to enlarge)
As a result the rocks came out nice and dry / dusty / dull looking, just like they should. This is a very easy fix.

Although the rubber cement trick is darn clever, it does sound like a lot of work and you need to get the level water line just right ahead of time or you could end up with some rubber cement "under water" if you aren't dead on with your sense of what's at water level.

Repainting the envirotex creep with a flat color mix is really simple and fast, and looks dandy.

NOTE: Envirotex sets up mirror smooth, which isn't typical for streams, rivers or anything larger than a pond size body of water. To add ripples like you see in the photo above, stipple on a layer of acrylic gloss medium over the top of the enivrotex. The resulting rippled surface will look much more realistic than mirror smooth envirotex.

[davekelly]

Joe,

That has to be the best looking stream/waterfall I have ever seen. GREAT JOB!!

[jfugate]

Thanks, Dave!

I mixed Crayola tempera paint and plaster 50:50 and then painted it onto the rocks down to the waterline after the envirotex set up to hide the einvirotex "crawl". Here's a link to the Crayola tempera paints so you can see what I'm talking about: http://www.reuels.com/reuels/product7914.html

I keep black, brown, blue, and yellow on hand. From that combination of colors, plus using the plaster as white, I can mix most anything I need as far as a scenery powder color to use as dirt or weathering on rocks, track, structures -- you name it.

By including the plaster in the mix, a light misting of water will fix the weathering in place better than pure powder alone.

[csmith9474]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overdurff

Get your lawyer to E-Mail Environtex to see if they have a suggestion for a fix! [;)][:D]
Tell those model people no more water skiing and big wakes until the water is dry!!!
Will

That's awsome!!![:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D] ROFLMAO

[scubaterry]

I see reference to Envirotex often. What exactly is it and where does one get it? Thanks!
Terry

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by scubaterry

I see reference to Envirotex often. What exactly is it and where does one get it? Thanks!
Terry

Envirotex High Gloss Polymer Coating is primarily a craft product. Some LHS's may carry it, but it would be mostly found in craft shops. It comes in a two part liquid kit, the resin and the hardener. It is mixed in equal quantities, then poured into the area where you want your water to be. It hardens overnight to a nice glossy finish, with almost no smell. Deeper water should be poured in several thinner layers.

Great stuff!

Bob Boudreau

[jfugate]

I agree with Bob, Envirotex is excellent stuff for modeling water.

Here's a great link for getting it: http://www.sceneryexpress.com/products.asp?dept=1096

Not only do they sell the envirotex, but you can also get dyes to make the water have a color. In the scene shown above, I not only painted the bottom of the pond shades of blue green, I also poured the envirotex in three layers ... 1 layer with a couple drops of blue and green dye, 1 layer with a couple drops of green dye, and 1 thin layer with one drop of yellow dye.


(click to enlarge)
This gave convincing deep pond look that you see here.

[selector]

What is the dye, Joe? Is it a specific type, model paint, acrylic, RIT...?

[JohnT14808]

Joe, your craftsmanship is just amazing. That pond looks so realistic, I wanted to jump in!!....either that or go dig out my rod and reel.....or my 30x30....but hunting season isn't "on" right now.
Wonderful work, just wonderful.

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

What is the dye, Joe? Is it a specific type, model paint, acrylic, RIT...?

Selector:

The dye is specifically for envirotex and is available from Scenery Express. Check out the link: http://www.sceneryexpress.com/products.asp?dept=1096

[jfugate]

John:

Thanks for the compliments! The pond is based upon ponds I remember enjoying in Southern Oregon as a kid.

[underworld]

Dave Be sure to post some pics.

underworld

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[underworld]

Joe Awesome work!!!!!

underworld

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Anonymous]

That's one truly outstanding water feature you have there, Joe! Simply beautiful!

[jfugate]

Gee, guys ... (blush). [:I]

Here's a photo of the pond in context:


(click to enlarge)

The stream runs out of a culvert that goes under a highway, and the highway runs under the railroad, which goes over the highway on a bridge.

You can see the railroad part of the scene in my web site header:


(click to enlarge)

[davekelly]

Joe,

No fair! You blew me away with the pic of just the pond/stream/waterfall and now you go show the whole scene. I love the way you combine the various colors/textures of the surrounding vegatation - looks great and it is something that many (including me) never give much thought to, until we see it. I can "see" the path the fisherman must have taken to get to his spot. I also have to say "great job" in getting the road higher than the surrounding area - again something many of us miss. Please share with us (or at least me) the colors you used on the road and technique used.

Dave

[palallin]

I hope you realize that you don't need to dull all of the rocks down. I a stream, rocks get wet, and some of them should be wet all over, even if they jut up above the level of the stream. Wave action, spray (if near a fall or rapids, passing boats, swimmers, etc.: all these keep rocks partially in water wet up to levels higher than the water itself.

[selector]

Agreed, pallalin. Due to the movement of water in a chaotic way, the upstream faces of midstream rocks will be largely wet, especially in the late spring.

Joe, far be it above me to suggest an improvement to The Man [:)], but some day, when you have nothing else to do, may I suggest polishing to glass-like the face of that creek, where it was dammed by whatever you use. That way, an observer will have an aquarium-like view into the stream. I think the effect would be stunning...not to say that it already isn't.

Respectfully..

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by palallin

I hope you realize that you don't need to dull all of the rocks down. I a stream, rocks get wet, and some of them should be wet all over, even if they jut up above the level of the stream. Wave action, spray (if near a fall or rapids, passing boats, swimmers, etc.: all these keep rocks partially in water wet up to levels higher than the water itself.

Palallin:

True, however, this inial post wasn't really about rocks being wet as much as it was about envirotex and it's annoying tendency to crawl up rocks and other things that stick up above the surface of the water.

Painting over the edges of rocks to "disguise" the crawl is easily done. However, I think it's important to point out that the "crawl" is much harder to hide on things like pilings. See this diagram:



Painting the "crawl" on this piling will look funny. The trick here is to first coat the bottom of the pilings with vaseline. Then the envirotex crawl will be concave instead of convex. Using a small bru***o paint a bit of acrylic gloss medium around each piling, you can fill up the "hole" and things will look like they should.

So if you paint the crawl on a rock, you just have a bigger rock. But for structural object like pilings and bridge piers, etc, it's best to first coat the area with vaseline, and then repair the edge with gloss medium.

[jfugate]

Dave:

The road techique is described on my website in detail at this link: http://siskiyou.railfan.net/model/constructionNotes/roads.html


For a larger image, click here.

I build my roads using 0.030 styrene. Using some sort of plaster method for paved roads, to me is just asking for a lot of work. To get it to look right you should install forms, pour the plaster, smooth it with a putty knife, remove the forms, sand the road (and make a dusty mess all over everything), then paint it and add the lines.

I prefer to use the styrene instead since it's very easy to get a nice smooth looking road. I first rough in the road location on the scenery by cutting a piece of cardboard and hot gluing it onto the cardboard strips before I plaster the area. I plan on the rough surface of the road being about a half inch below the level I will eventually want later.

After roughing in the road along with the rest of the scenery plastering, I cut a pattern for the road out of thin cardboard, and test fit it in the location until I get exactly the shape I want. I use this pattern to cut out the styrene.

I put the road down and shim with stripwood to get it just the level I want. I glue the stripwood in place with white glue or latex caulking and let it set up. The road has not yet been fastened down.

I glue the road down with latex caulking, and use weights to hold it in place until it sets up. Next, plaster the edges to form a natural contour with the nearby scenery. Make sure and leave room for ditches.

Then I paint the road with gray acrylics, with just a tad bit of brown mixed in. I don't try especially hard to avoid streaks in the color and make sure the paint strokes run down the length of the road, not across it.

I mask off the road lines and paint them using an airbrush or a can of spraypaint.

Using my plaster powder - tempera mix, I darken the middle of each lane slightly since this is how real roads weather. I add some ballast along the edge of the road shoulder, and glue it down using my standard track ballast and white glue technique.

The result is the roads you see in the photos on this thread.

[davekelly]

Joe,

Thanks! Love the website!! Good and very helpful hint re: piling in water!!

Dave