Why do I need 18 guage wire for feeder's?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

QUOTE: Originally posted by grayfox1119

Is the bowing caused by all the rail joiners being soldered, or is it due to the sub base expanding with humidity?

Problem was (1)no gap's and (2) rails heating from running.

I have to express considerable skeptisism at this. You might get some heat if you have few feeders and a big current draw through the track, but I think the impact of arcing is going to be minimal. I suspect some other cause. But it doesn't really matter, the point to be taken away is that in most, if not all cases, you have to allow for a bit of movement, whatever the cause.

[selector]

The track across my big bridge deflected widely to one side early in the spring. I was surpised, to say the least, but the heating had been off for two weeks, and my plywood layout is in the basement. I figured that humidity must have contributed to this deflection. We bought a dehumidifier and have used it ever since. No repeats of the track deflection.

I'll have to run my tongue across the track some time to see if it's hot...[D)]

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

I'll have to run my tongue across the track some time to see if it's hot...[D)]

Make sure you have power on the rails when you do that, and run your tongue across both rails at the same time, to get the full impact! [:o)]

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

Guaranteed good performance from day one to the layout's end-of-life is worth the small amount of extra work adding a few more feeders takes.

It's just not that big a deal. This discussion is taking more time than it took me to add the extra feeders! [swg]

I'm curious, Joe - how long does it take you to completely install each feeder (not each pair)? Your layout isn't small - that "small amount of extra work" must add up!

All my feeders run to barrier stips under the layout, where they connect via a larger "sub-feeder" to the buss lines. My layout will have something in excess of 14 scale miles of track when it's all laid. That will equate to about 850 real feet of track, or about 565 feeders, if I put in two every three feet (one on each rail). Figuring (very conservatively) five minutes per feeder, that's at least 47 hours of feeder installation. That doesn't account for barrier strip installation time. The cost of all those feeders is also considerable, since they will each tie into a barrier strip (which runs a couple of bucks apiece, depending on number of connections on the strip). I would be looking at well over two hundred bucks for those alone!

I suppose, given the thousands of hours and thousands of dollars it will take to build this albatross I've concocted, the time and expense of the feeders isn't that great.

But I'm still comfortable with my current approach.....[:o)]

Maybe if I were to invest in a resistance soldering kit I wouldn't see feeder soldering as such a big pain.

[grayfox1119]

Patience grasshopper, patience!!

[Don Gibson]

Brunton

Mark:
I am a believer (halleleuja?) in Barrier Strips. I use them for all turnout's and lighting - actually, anywhere I have a device that would require unsoldering when replacing.
It escape's me why someone would use them for the feeder's, when a parallel buss pair can serve that function underneath - whatever the guages used.

My previous layout had Buss wire's underneath the topside track and feeder's through the ply, soldered to the buss immediatly below - 5 " max. Did I relocate track? - sure. Just clipped off the old connection and resoldered the new, after stripping a new section . I left some old connection's bare (horrors!) but were far enough separated as not to cause problems. My (new) layout is the same except for using 3M connectors and my Buss wire's are all 3'' under the mainline.

In retrospect I think you are using terminal strips to accomodate different types of wire, wheras my dual guage suitcase connector's are serving that purpose - within limitation's. Considering how thorough you are, and with today's cost of terminal strips, you must have found a source that I can only hope for at best. In any case,
Regard's,

DG

[Pruitt]

Don -

I use barrier strips everywhere I run a wire from a main connection to a point under the layout near the final connection. I use double row strips.

For track, I solder the sub-feeders to the buss wires nearby, and tie together as many contacts as I have tracks for each sub-feeder. The smaller-gauge track feeders come off the other row. Under yards I use strips with at least twice the number of tracks I'm connecting, and run each feeder to a different screw on the block. In larger yards I may double-up the feeders under each screw, but I prefer not to do that. I haven't been useing spade connectors - I just loop the wire and put it under the screw.

Using the barrier strips allows me to revise the wiring relatively easily, and if I inadvertantly connect the feeders backwards, I don't have to cut and re-solder wires to fix the problem. I don't like insulation-displacement connectors, so I solder connections to my buss. Using the barrier strips means I only have to solder one wire to my stranded 12-gauge buss wires (even with my 140-watt soldering gun, I have problems soldering more than one or two wires to the buss - heat is conducted too quickly by the wires, I think).

[rrinker]

I use barrier strips for panels, but the track feeders hook directly into the bus. Even in areas where there is a cluster of feeders, I don't have a problem with one coming unsoldered while soldering the adjacent one - with a 100 or 140 watt gun you shouldn't have to leave the heat on the joint very long to get good solder flow, unless your tip is corroded. I slightly stagger the joints so they are not directly next to one another, but I also paint them over with liquid electrical tape just in case. Kind of hard to connect the feeders backwards since on rail gets white and one rail gets red, which matches the bus wire color.

--Randy

[howmus]

I do my wiring exactly like Brunton. I find it simple to use a large main bus break that down into a slightly smaller sub-bus under the layout and then run feeders using small wire to the track. I also use the barrior strips for all connections. Having said that, this thread certainly shows that there are many ways to skin a cat.... or wire a layout. I think the main point of the thread is to make sure that whatever method used will work flawlessly for years.

[grayfox1119]

I use European style barrier strips, Radio Shack carries them in two sizes. The larger type can take #12 gauge wire, while the smaller one takes #16-#24 gauge wire. I run the Main Buss wire ( #12 gauge right through the 1st position on the barrier strip, and I also have a #14 gauge wire inserted into one end of this 1st position along with one end of the #12 gauge Main Buss wire. This #14 sub buss wire daisy chains to as many more of the barrier strip positions that I may need for that area of the layout. From the mating positions of the selected (used) barrier strip positions, I run my track feeders up through the plywood table to the tracks.
The technique can be done using the black barrier strips that Radio Shack also carries if you prefer. You can either wire wrap the wires under the screws, or, what I prefer to do is use spade lugs, crimped and solderd to the wires.
If you have problems with soldering wires, causing too much heat to melt the insulation off the wires, you can use TEFLON covered hook-up wire. I must warn you though, this wire is more expensive. The insulation does not melt at all. We used this extensively in industry, I loved it. Not sure I could afford it today.