Walthers & Wal-Mart

[Anonymous]

probally walthers will sell low end lifelike train sets and their own train line sets for holiday sales.

[grayfox1119]

Lets see now, are there any POSITIVES to this happening. Well, for one thing, if youngsters see a train set in Wal-Mart , maybe we will gain more MRR's in the hobby. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? A good thing of course. Will more people in the hobby HELP us or hurt us? Help us of course, more volume for manufacturers mean lower prodcution costs, which theoretically, according to economics 101 and 201, should help us modelers.
Will it hurt the LHS's? To a small degree, they will lose out on the small, cheap train sets for birthdays and Christmas. The serious modelers will still go to LHS for someone who KNOWS what they are selling, not a person MY age handing out smiley faces

ZZZIIIINNNG

at Wallyworld.
I am waiting for some smart young man to open a new brand of stores called HOBBY-MART, where they will carry all the leading brands, have everything that you need for MRR'g as well as other hobbies, and be INTERNATIONAL with stores everywhere. Sort of like BestBuy, but strictly all hobby and supplies. DREAM ON YOU SILLY BOY !!

[Catt]

For all the P&Ming going on in this thread would somebody explain to me what the LifeLike division of Walthers selling slotcar sets to Wally-World has to do with Walthers selling model train product to your LHS?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grayfox1119
Will it hurt the LHS's? To a small degree, they will lose out on the small, cheap train sets for birthdays and Christmas. The serious modelers will still go to LHS for someone who KNOWS what they are selling, not a person MY age handing out smiley faces

ZZZIIIINNNG

at Wallyworld.
I am waiting for some smart young man to open a new brand of stores called HOBBY-MART, where they will carry all the leading brands, have everything that you need for MRR'g as well as other hobbies, and be INTERNATIONAL with stores everywhere. Sort of like BestBuy, but strictly all hobby and supplies. DREAM ON YOU SILLY BOY !!

I like the hobbymart idea, however our hobby still doesn't have the momentum to make such a thing profitable. And contrary to what we'd all like to believe in our warm fuzzy happy places, if you build it they will NOT come.

LHS's seeing gains from an increase of people in the hobby due to cheaper starter sets at WalMart? Couldn't possibly see it. Maybe one or two people out of a town of 50,000. The kid that gets a WalMart trainset for the holidays from his folks is being raised in a society telling him to shop for the best deal. And come on, these are kids we're talking about. If they want to get further into the hobby the LHS is the last place they'll go. This is a generation of kids being raised on the internet, and that's where they'll wind up doing their shopping down the road. If they don't have any sort of loyalty to their LHS to begin with, why should they start over-paying now?

I'm not saying I begrudge the LHS, I still make an effort to go out of my way and spend a certain amount of my budget in there. But for what it's worth and despite not being what a lot of folks want to hear...the LHS is a dying breed. I do sadly believe its days are numbered.

[dgwinup]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grayfox1119


I am waiting for some smart young man to open a new brand of stores called HOBBY-MART, where they will carry all the leading brands, have everything that you need for MRR'g as well as other hobbies, and be INTERNATIONAL with stores everywhere. Sort of like BestBuy, but strictly all hobby and supplies. DREAM ON YOU SILLY BOY !!

I thought that was the premise behind the HobbyTown franchises. Big store, cater to ALL modeling efforts, carry big inventories.

The only problem with HobbyTown is that they won't sell a franchise in areas with a population LESS than 200,000! [:0] You won't find them competing with many LHS's because the LHS serves the smaller communities and/or city neighborhoods.[:)]

Darrell, quiet...for now

[ereimer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dgwinup

I thought that was the premise behind the HobbyTown franchises. Big store, cater to ALL modeling efforts, carry big inventories.

The only problem with HobbyTown is that they won't sell a franchise in areas with a population LESS than 200,000! [:0] You won't find them competing with many LHS's because the LHS serves the smaller communities and/or city neighborhoods.[:)]

Darrell, quiet...for now

unfortunatly you can't have a big store with big inventory located in areas where the population just won't generate the sales needed to keep the store afloat . wal-mart sells things everybody needs so they can locate in smaller towns than a Hobby Town , Best Buy or Home Depot can . you still won't see a walmart in a town with a population of 200 that's 100 miles from anywhere else

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by actionplant

QUOTE: Originally posted by grayfox1119
Will it hurt the LHS's? To a small degree, they will lose out on the small, cheap train sets for birthdays and Christmas. The serious modelers will still go to LHS for someone who KNOWS what they are selling, not a person MY age handing out smiley faces

ZZZIIIINNNG

at Wallyworld.
I am waiting for some smart young man to open a new brand of stores called HOBBY-MART, where they will carry all the leading brands, have everything that you need for MRR'g as well as other hobbies, and be INTERNATIONAL with stores everywhere. Sort of like BestBuy, but strictly all hobby and supplies. DREAM ON YOU SILLY BOY !!

LHS's seeing gains from an increase of people in the hobby due to cheaper starter sets at WalMart? Couldn't possibly see it. Maybe one or two people out of a town of 50,000. The kid that gets a WalMart trainset for the holidays from his folks is being raised in a society for ttelling him to shop he best deal. And come on, these are kids we're talking about. If they want to get further into the hobby the LHS is the last place they'll go. This is a generation of kids being raised on the internet, and that's where they'll wind up doing their shopping down the road. If they don't have any sort of loyalty to their LHS to begin with, why should they start over-paying now?

That just doesn't make sense. Maybe if a kids likes trains this would help get him started, besides if they really raised on the internet they will come here, and we will tell them to go to a Local Hobby Shop, for real models. Do you guys do this over every store that stocks a Christmas train set? Simmer down, people, if the end of the local hobby shop is nigh, this won't matter a hill of beans. It is better for a kid to get this and get him started in the hobby, than to get a computer game, which is guaranteed not to arouse interest in model railroading.

I got started in the hobby with a cheap train set, of my grandfather’s; his kids didn't like trains too much. Years later this trains set from the '70s was mine; the start of my empire. Next I got a new engine, and then I started on a real layout. My story must not be the only one of its kind. I would hardly call it the last place to go, if a kid is interested further he might stop into a hobby shop, or buy an issue of Model Railroader. I discovered Railroad hobbies in Middleton (a small town for you who don't know the area) just by driving by and seeing a sign on the building. So Dad and I stopped in, I have been a loyal customer ever since.

[Anonymous]

I have yet to even see a cheap train set at Walmart, even after looking specifically for one. It was just before Christmas last year, and it was only in one store, but I did not find even one set. At the Toys R Us store next to Walmart, they only had about eight boxes of a single type of Life Like train set at the same time. Needless to say, the selection (if you can call it that) was pathetic. I was thinking to myself at the time, that if I had wanted to get a kid (or kids) interested in the hobby without spending much money, I didn't have many choices without going to the LHS (which would cost 2 to 3 times as much as the set at Toys R Us). When I was growing up, Toys R Us carried sets from Life Like, Bachmann and Tyco. They also carried accessories like extra track and snap together structures. If it weren't for these things, I probably would not have ever become interested in the hobby. This cheap stuff was fairly short lived, but it did get me into this hobby. I then discovered a few LHSs and found out that there was a model railroad club at my dad's workplace. It was because of the influences from these sources that I learned of the better products out there.

What I think Walthers should do for the benefit of all parties involved is to include a condensed version of their catalog (similar to their sales flyers) in each of their "toy" train sets, offering low cost accessories to the purchasers of these sets. They could make a selection of these accessories available through the big box retailers and offer other items through mail order or special order at the LHS. They could also include a coupon for $5.00 off the purchase of their full catalog. In the full catalog, they could include a coupon for $10.00 off any Walthers special order through the local hobby shop(s), which could be listed on an enclosed page supplied with the catalog, specific to the purchaser's location. That way, Walthers could cater to the low end, low priced market by mass producing products to be sold by the big box stores, but could also influence consumers to get more involved in the hobby and promoting the LHS in the process. I see something like that as a win-win for all concerned.

[palallin]

I've seen years when the local Walmart carried a dozen different train sets, mostly Bachmann HO. They also hadd some extra EZ-Track and several building kits. The stock was depleted well before Christmas except for the two or three varieties of battery-powered, New Brite Large Scale sets.

[Darth Santa Fe]

If Walthers only sells the cheapy stuff to Wal-Mart, than I don't think that the hobby shops will be affected. Life-Like has actually been selling trains to K's Merchandise for a while now, and I don't see my LHS being affected by it. It probably helps get more kids into Model Railroading by selling to large companies like, Wal-Mart and K's and Meijer.(coming soon to a lot right behind Wal-Mart [:)])

[Darth Santa Fe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergmiester

If If walther's affiliates with Wal-mart will they become....

Wally-Others?

More like, Walther-Mart, or, Wallythers, or, Wal-Thers.[:D][:D]

I've got it!! How many names can we come up with for a combonation of the names Walthers and Wal-Mart!?[:D][:p][:D][:p][:D]

[pj1775]

I would caution the Walther's family in this potentially devastating move. Beyond the great deals and the carnival-like atmosphere of these Wal-Mart stores, the truth is their corporate offices chew up their suppliers and spit them out. I could name you countless suppliers that they have strung out until they cave.

I say this as the third generation of a milti-million dollar company. I have to believe Sam Walton would spin in his grave if he saw his company's discraceful approach to marketing today.

Sorry for the soap-box session. As far as I'm concerned I will continue to buy such railroad items from my local hobby shop. Even if their price is a few bucks more, they aren't loosing my business. When I walk in, they still know my name, know the scale I model, and they do business in an ethical way.

Sorry again. Had to get it off my chest.

PJ

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Darth Santa Fe

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergmiester

If If walther's affiliates with Wal-mart will they become....

Wally-Others?

More like, Walther-Mart, or, Wallythers, or, Wal-Thers.[:D][:D]

I've got it!! How many names can we come up with for a combonation of the names Walthers and Wal-Mart!?[:D][:p][:D][:p][:D]

How about just WALMART, I think they would gobble up poor ole Walthers.

[Bergie]

As mentioned in the Editor's Note that I included at the bottom of the initial post, there are two additional pages to that story. Read the full story here:

http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/08/29/newscolumn1.html?page=1

Bergie

[Anonymous]

Hey, guys! Can you all read? The deal was cut between Life Like and Walthers BEFORE WALTHERS BOUGHT LIFE LIKE. Like the good honest operators they are Walthers is honoring the contract. It is for the toy quality stuff, not for high end P2K locomotives, etc. So Walthers is honest enough to honor the contract signed prior to their take over and we flame them to death for doing it. Guys, grow up, and THINK!
If the Life Like toy line, including slot cars, appears at Walmart-so what. It sure isn't going to show up at any of the true hobby shops I frequent. As pointed out above there probably isn't enough volume in true scale hobby equipment to meet Walmart's volume requirements. And if Walter's makes a bundle on toy sales through Walmart then great! They'll have money to expand the scale lines we purchase!

Cheers

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ebriley

Hey, guys! Can you all read? The deal was cut between Life Like and Walthers BEFORE WALTHERS BOUGHT LIFE LIKE. Like the good honest operators they are Walthers is honoring the contract. It is for the toy quality stuff, not for high end P2K locomotives, etc. So Walthers is honest enough to honor the contract signed prior to their take over and we flame them to death for doing it. Guys, grow up, and THINK!

Ah not so quick to say what you just stated, I DID READ THE NEWSTORY: gander at this statement:

QUOTE: In October, Walthers will begin negotiations for Christmas 2006 with Wal-Mart and others. He knows the high-volume business will mean lower profit margins than he's used to, but he sees it as an avenue to introduce young people to the hobby industry. He also hopes to convince Wal-Mart to carry additional products in the Walthers line.

He states they are also negotiating with Walmart as a Walthers contract for 2006. Also if you read the last line, and though they don't state what they are also looking at additional products. So maybe it's the little remote control cars they mentioned or more slot car stuff, OR maybe Walthers is like almost every other corporation in the US and wants more $$$ and see Walmart (the big deathstar of the retail business) as a way to maybe move some of their Walther or LifeLike train stuff, and I am only a$$uming this, but maybe you need to read the article also. I seem to have a different take as to what is happening. If all is just non-railroad stuff cool, but if they are moving into model railroad stuff, I think this will be a slap to all the LHS's they have done business with and they the LHS have helped keep Walthers in the game, maybe not or maybe more then a Walmart deal will do. I guess time will tell.

[davekelly]

Thanks Bergie for the entire article. Of course knowing more facts makes arguing so much less fun! I never knew that Life Like was owned by someone else previous to the Walthers buy - I thought Life Like was owned by old time hobbiest, not some mega corporation holding company. Interesting to say the least.

I still don't think that Walthers selling to WalMart will slam LHS's that much. I can't for the life of me picturing Walthers having more than half an aisle (if that much) of train stuff. At the most I see Wal-Mart having a Model Railroad selection similar to what is at Hobby Lobby and places like that. Folks will still need LHS or other suppliers to get all our stuff.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

At the most I see Wal-Mart having a Model Railroad selection similar to what is at Hobby Lobby and places like that. Folks will still need LHS or other suppliers to get all our stuff.

Well if it's like our HobbyLobby here, they have N scale mixed with G scale mixed with doll house stuff. I have found a couple of odd ball items my LHS doesn't carry, as well as they have a great paint selection as well as Evergreen and Plastruct.

It just makes me uneasy seeing anyone deal with Walmart, let alone when Walmart opens 5 superstores in a 10 mile radius of where I live. Worse yet, is they are all busy [:0]

[potlatcher]

Pure speculation here, but if Walthers negotiates a contract with Wally World next year, and if that contract includes model railroad items, I can't see WalMart buying anything other than train sets, not individual cars, locomotives, or accessories.

When I was a kid in the late 70's / early 80's, there were still some train sets sold in retail stores like K-Mart, Sears, Fred Meyer, etc . . . These were almost all Tyco sets, with some Bachman and Life-Like sets in later years. I don't believe the sale of these sets represented any great threat to my LHS, which did not stock more than one or two sets. Instead, my LHS saw those sets as a boon to their business, because when the crappy Tyco/Bachman/Life-Like engine fell apart after a few weeks, many dads would bring their kids into the LHS to see if it could be fixed. The LHS owner would explain why they couldn't be repaired, then show the family a blue-box Athearn that would run forever and be easily repaired if broken. In short, the discount store train sets did not take business away from the LHS - they actually brought more customers into the LHS.

I can see this same scenario developing if Walthers begins selling Life-Like train sets to WalMart (the quality of the Life-Like engines is still pretty poor as I understand it). Even if Walthers sold them its Trainline series of sets, with higher quality equipment than the Life-Like stuff, the LHS's could find ways to draw the owners of these sets into their stores to see what else is available. Who knows, we might end up with a lot of younger model railroaders - just what the hobby really needs!

One problem with this theory is the dwindling availability of inexpensive but high-quality Athearn blue box kits. If Dad brings Junior into the LHS after Christmas and all he sees are $120 locomotives and $20 RTR boxcars, he'll walk right out again. If Horizon is smart, they can ride Walthers' coattails by releasing more blue box kits just in time to meet this new demand.

Of course, this all hinges on a contract between Walthers and WalMart that may never happen. And that depends on whether WalMart perceives any interest among consumers for train sets - selling NASCAR slot car sets is a no-brainer, but selling trains may be another story.

Tom

[vsmith]

Theres no mention of any model train, the last time I was in a Swill-Mart I saw nada!
So the sky isnt falling yet!

Even if Walthers agreed to sell model trains at Wart-Mart it would invariably be the El Cheepo X-mas-tree sets, heck, even the local Sav-on's here have the xmas bottom dweller sets each year.

Wallyworld is NOT known for high quality products, period. Cheap products, cheap quality, cheap everything. If it breaks come back and buy another seams to be there motto.

[Anonymous]

To vsmith

I have worked for Wally world and K mart you might want to recheck. Yes they sell a lot of cheap stuff but the last time I worked there I saw people bring back products that they beat, battered and abused and clamed O I only used it once MY A@# The return policy is the customer is always right that is way most of us have to pay higher prices.So at the end of summer and you see the guy bringing back the lawn mower thank him for the higher price you are going to pay next year.

[Anonymous]

I don't think it would necessarily kill the LHS - as others have said, Wal-Mart are unlikely to want to stock most of the Walthers range apart from the cheap trainsets (in the event of the contract being renewed). If they're cheap enough, some of the items in those sets make excellent kitbash fodder - can anyone see Wal-Mart selling the other equipment you need to convert a trainset into a complete layout? I think that if anything a good supply of cheap start sets will help the LHS, as the buyers will probably go there in search of additional parts. The tricky part then will be whether the LHS can stock enough budget models to keep their interest - if they only see $20+ boxcars and $100+ locos they're unlikely to conclude that this is a hobby they can afford to get involved in.

[Anonymous]

This will spell the end of Walthers as they are forced to use all their resources to fill massive Wal Mart orders.[xx(]

[howmus]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit

I don't think it would necessarily kill the LHS - as others have said, Wal-Mart are unlikely to want to stock most of the Walthers range apart from the cheap trainsets (in the event of the contract being renewed).

Its not the LHS that are most likely to go belly up immediately at least. The question is: how many sets of stuff can Walther's afford to sell at a loss before they file for bankruptcy??? His hope has to be that it will generate enough interest in high quality equip that can only be gotten on line or at the LHS to offset the loss of profit they will experience doing business with Mall-Wart. However, if the history of the hobby holds true, buying the cheap crap that will be sold at Mall-Wart will probably drive many future MRs away from the hobby..........

[davekelly]

I don't believe that Walthers is selling the sets at a loss. The article linked by Bergie says that Walthers will be receiving a smaller profit margin than they are used to. Unless Phil is using "smaller" to mean "negative" it would appear that there is a positive profit margin.

[Anonymous]

Here is my post to the Yahoo HO group on the same topic.

From my posision on the black hole of the model railroad universe (i.e.
Wyoming)Any model trains showing up at Walmart is a good thing. There
are only 5 hobby shops in the entire state, most of them on the far side.
Closest one is 90 miles. (Just imagine, "Hey honey be back in a few
hours. Need a bottle of paint and a tube of glue")I feel that even if
the Life-Like standard line of crap were to be put up for sale, I would
strongly consider buying it, as I am so starved for parts and pieces, I
have quite literally had to resort to using second hand brass track. (Oh
the depths that I have fallen.) Out in Wyoming model railroading is
existing at a 1940s level of existance and I have to make stuff from
what I can adapt from non traditional hobby sources. Let me tell you,
you can make foam core buildings look really really good. The parts and
pieces I can't substitue, I ether have to wait until I can get to a
hobby shop, or mail order. Which I get to do about twice a year. And
then the items I can't find anyplace else, I get from ebay. (About 6
times a year) So If Walthers wants to let Walmart sell Life-Like, let
them, Be a viable source of parts I can scavange and adapt. Maybe
Walthers will figure out how to adapt their Trainline Mechinsim to the
El-cheapo Life-Like shells so we can get some decent running engines at
decent prices. Trainline and Trainset Life-Like sell at similar full
retail priceing so I can't imagine Walthers would be taking that big a
hit by changing drives.

Just some of my thoughts on my situation. As for the end of hobby shop
trains, if you don;t have any hobby shops to start with, are you really
missing anything?

James.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Student of Big Sky Blue

Here is my post to the Yahoo HO group on the same topic.

From my posision on the black hole of the model railroad universe (i.e.
Wyoming)Any model trains showing up at Walmart is a good thing. There
are only 5 hobby shops in the entire state, most of them on the far side.
Closest one is 90 miles. (Just imagine, "Hey honey be back in a few
hours. Need a bottle of paint and a tube of glue")I feel that even if
the Life-Like standard line of crap were to be put up for sale, I would
strongly consider buying it, as I am so starved for parts and pieces, I
have quite literally had to resort to using second hand brass track. (Oh
the depths that I have fallen.) Out in Wyoming model railroading is
existing at a 1940s level of existance and I have to make stuff from
what I can adapt from non traditional hobby sources. Let me tell you,
you can make foam core buildings look really really good. The parts and
pieces I can't substitue, I ether have to wait until I can get to a
hobby shop, or mail order. Which I get to do about twice a year. And
then the items I can't find anyplace else, I get from ebay. (About 6
times a year) So If Walthers wants to let Walmart sell Life-Like, let
them, Be a viable source of parts I can scavange and adapt. Maybe
Walthers will figure out how to adapt their Trainline Mechinsim to the
El-cheapo Life-Like shells so we can get some decent running engines at
decent prices. Trainline and Trainset Life-Like sell at similar full
retail priceing so I can't imagine Walthers would be taking that big a
hit by changing drives.

Just some of my thoughts on my situation. As for the end of hobby shop
trains, if you don;t have any hobby shops to start with, are you really
missing anything?

James.

Can you post some pictures of these foam buildings? I am thinking I may have found a use for all the left over scenery stuff.[tup][tup]

[grayfox1119]

This is a good move for Walthers, and they will not have trouble keeping up with orders for Wal-Mart. If business gets that good, all Walthers has to do is crank up the manufacturers, gee , what a nice problem to have, too many customer orders!!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman
Can you post some pictures of these foam buildings? I am thinking I may have found a use for all the left over scenery stuff.[tup][tup]

Sure. Give me some time to get some pics. Im in the middle of a move so it will take a while. BUt I will get some for you.

Now this is foam core. The paperboard sandwich material not the pink or blue foam commonly used for scenery. Can also get it at walmart for 99 cents for a 22 X32 board. (At least at my local walmart anyway)

James

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Student of Big Sky Blue

QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman
Can you post some pictures of these foam buildings? I am thinking I may have found a use for all the left over scenery stuff.[tup][tup]

Sure. Give me some time to get some pics. Im in the middle of a move so it will take a while. BUt I will get some for you.

Now this is foam core. The paperboard sandwich material not the pink or blue foam commonly used for scenery. Can also get it at walmart for 99 cents for a 22 X32 board. (At least at my local walmart anyway)

James

That would still good to see. Let us know [:)]