Walthers & Wal-Mart

[robert sylvester]

[8][}:)][B)] Each of these smilies actually mean something. I'll explain. I have delt with Walthers since 1960, when I received Walthers passenger cars, infact an entire consist, plus the Hudson that was produced at that time by Walthers, Atlas buildings, and track, with an MRC power pack, all from Walthers which my father ordered through the hobby shop in 1960 for Christmas. I thought they were the neatess thing a guy could have, I would get at eye level with the windows and just pretend I was on that train. I even got the interior kits for the cars.
I too ran a hobby shop for years, and once again Walthers was a major supplier, but "back order"[8], became an issue and a new word in the lexicon. Sometimes it would take a while for things to get there. So,[}:)] I would then have to develope creative marketing and or sales talk, like "coming soon", don't know when but "coming soon".
[B)] Innevatably the store developed a black eye due to delayed inventory.
I have since moved, and there is no local hobby shop where I live now except for a Hobby Lobby, very little train stuff.
[;)]So, with one eye closed I will watch what Wal Mart and Walthers do. I would support a LHS, ain' got one, mail order only. So, If Phil wants to place some variety at Wal Mart I'm all for it. In fact I think he should go beyond race tracks, at least some Life Like, Athearn, Bachman, Atlas, and the like.
If young modlers, and or new modlers see these products it may bring them into the fold. And those of us that have been around modeling for 50 years will take a look as well.
So Phil, maybe some MRC, Roundhouse, Mini Metals, and of course Walthers.
Robert
WTRR
Hub City Division

[Ibflattop]

Hey I did what Fish did. I was walking thru and I see the Athearn J.D. Tractors so I picked up a couple for my Tractor Dealier on my layout!!!!!!! Kevin

[Anonymous]

Although Wal-mart may sell train sets and maybe even some acessories try to get Tommy teenager wal mart employee to answer your question about the difference between a big boy and a switcher. LHS's will be there to answer your questions. When I was growing up in Michigan I used to get my train gear from Woolworth (Remember them???)and the local hobby shop but when I had questions I went to the hobby house.
This just means that come January people will be dumping the train sets on e-bay


Just my 2 cents

May God look over those struck by Katrina

[loathar]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pj1775

I would caution the Walther's family in this potentially devastating move. Beyond the great deals and the carnival-like atmosphere of these Wal-Mart stores, the truth is their corporate offices chew up their suppliers and spit them out. I could name you countless suppliers that they have strung out until they cave.

I say this as the third generation of a milti-million dollar company. I have to believe Sam Walton would spin in his grave if he saw his company's discraceful approach to marketing today.

Sorry for the soap-box session. As far as I'm concerned I will continue to buy such railroad items from my local hobby shop. Even if their price is a few bucks more, they aren't loosing my business. When I walk in, they still know my name, know the scale I model, and they do business in an ethical way.

Sorry again. Had to get it off my chest.

PJ

I have to drive 75-100 miles to go to a LHS.By the time I pay $3/gallon for gas AND 10-30% more for the LHS prices that's pretty much a no go for me. If I had a LHS in my town I WOULD support it. Since I don't, I would love to see Wally mart carry SOME mid quality Walthers stuff.
If Mr. Walthers does read these posts, I say GO for it.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098

I knew this thread would get to something usefull in the end, good thing I have a signature, wouldn't want to get confused with James, then people would think I am smart.[8D]

You wouldn't be taking a friendly pot shot across my bow would you? [4:-)] Any event I can care less about Uncle Pete. I model GN now. On that note. I will be in the Dome Car. (See my signature)

James

[Anonymous]

I knew this thread would get to something usefull in the end, good thing I have a signature, wouldn't want to get confused with the other James, then people would think I am smart.[8D]
PS. What do you think of my new signature? And my new favotrite quote:Sure I count rivets, just like the real railroads, real railroads count on rivets to hold their cars together.

[Anonymous]

Phil Walthers asked us to post the following letter from him to Rich Kirchen, author of the Business Journal article.  He felt it might clarify things and answer some of your questions.

*** Christianson
Managing Editor
Model Railroader magazine


September 2, 2005

Dear Rich,

I enjoyed talking to you about our recent acquisition and appreciate the publicity The Business Journal provided Walthers and the model railroad industry.

Because of our long term commitment to the independent hobby retailer, I feel that it is important to clarify the focus that our company has and how we look at our different markets. While our interview covered a range of topics, the article focused primarily on opportunities with Wal-Mart.

The driver for this acquisition was the complementary and synergistic nature of the Life-Like and Walthers hobby product lines. In particular, the Life-Like Proto™ and Heritage™ brands of highly detailed model railroad locomotives was a perfect match for our own line of miniature freight and passenger cars. Additionally, we added N scale products that will help us better serve an important hobby market segment.

The opportunity to acquire a line of train and race car sets that are sold into the mass market, and the Darda line of self-propelled cars that is sold to independent toy retailers, was a beneficial diversification of our product offering and customer base. It is important to note that the product requirements of the hobby market and the mass market are very different. We don’t envision transferring our existing Walthers hobby lines to the mass market, rather we hope to increase the number of new hobbyists created through their mass market buying experience.

Thanks once again for the chance to share with your readers this exciting chapter in our company’s history.

J. Philip Walthers, President
Wm. K. Walthers, Inc.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly
Now, if your method results in me being able to scratchbuild something AND put it in the foreground - well . . .you should probably be nominated for a Nobel Prize!

I will see what I can russle up for you.

I have a "Union Station" module. Waiting for a my layout to reach "North Pendleton" (Built this for a class project when I was studying Architecture at MSU Bozeman) a Warehouse on my East Michielsen switching district. And I am presently planning a facorty that will go in the west michielsen Switching district. Plus I am also toying with the idea of making that scratchbuilt yard office that appeared in Model Railroader last spring out of foamcore instead of styrene.

I have construction photos of the station. But nothing really cool with it all lit up. So I will set it up and take them when I get resettled.

James.

[davekelly]

I figured you were using them for foreground buildings, but if I'm scratchbuilding something, it needs to be in the background for obvious reasons. [:D][:D][:D]

Now, if your method results in me being able to scratchbuild something AND put it in the foreground - well . . .you should probably be nominated for a Nobel Prize!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

I'd like to see pics of those structures also. Sounds like a great way to make background buildings.

These are foreground buildings. When I set my trains back up I will take pics and show you.

James

[davekelly]

I'd like to see pics of those structures also. Sounds like a great way to make background buildings.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Student of Big Sky Blue

QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman
Can you post some pictures of these foam buildings? I am thinking I may have found a use for all the left over scenery stuff.[tup][tup]

Sure. Give me some time to get some pics. Im in the middle of a move so it will take a while. BUt I will get some for you.

Now this is foam core. The paperboard sandwich material not the pink or blue foam commonly used for scenery. Can also get it at walmart for 99 cents for a 22 X32 board. (At least at my local walmart anyway)

James

That would still good to see. Let us know [:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman
Can you post some pictures of these foam buildings? I am thinking I may have found a use for all the left over scenery stuff.[tup][tup]

Sure. Give me some time to get some pics. Im in the middle of a move so it will take a while. BUt I will get some for you.

Now this is foam core. The paperboard sandwich material not the pink or blue foam commonly used for scenery. Can also get it at walmart for 99 cents for a 22 X32 board. (At least at my local walmart anyway)

James

[grayfox1119]

This is a good move for Walthers, and they will not have trouble keeping up with orders for Wal-Mart. If business gets that good, all Walthers has to do is crank up the manufacturers, gee , what a nice problem to have, too many customer orders!!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Student of Big Sky Blue

Here is my post to the Yahoo HO group on the same topic.

From my posision on the black hole of the model railroad universe (i.e.
Wyoming)Any model trains showing up at Walmart is a good thing. There
are only 5 hobby shops in the entire state, most of them on the far side.
Closest one is 90 miles. (Just imagine, "Hey honey be back in a few
hours. Need a bottle of paint and a tube of glue")I feel that even if
the Life-Like standard line of crap were to be put up for sale, I would
strongly consider buying it, as I am so starved for parts and pieces, I
have quite literally had to resort to using second hand brass track. (Oh
the depths that I have fallen.) Out in Wyoming model railroading is
existing at a 1940s level of existance and I have to make stuff from
what I can adapt from non traditional hobby sources. Let me tell you,
you can make foam core buildings look really really good. The parts and
pieces I can't substitue, I ether have to wait until I can get to a
hobby shop, or mail order. Which I get to do about twice a year. And
then the items I can't find anyplace else, I get from ebay. (About 6
times a year) So If Walthers wants to let Walmart sell Life-Like, let
them, Be a viable source of parts I can scavange and adapt. Maybe
Walthers will figure out how to adapt their Trainline Mechinsim to the
El-cheapo Life-Like shells so we can get some decent running engines at
decent prices. Trainline and Trainset Life-Like sell at similar full
retail priceing so I can't imagine Walthers would be taking that big a
hit by changing drives.

Just some of my thoughts on my situation. As for the end of hobby shop
trains, if you don;t have any hobby shops to start with, are you really
missing anything?

James.

Can you post some pictures of these foam buildings? I am thinking I may have found a use for all the left over scenery stuff.[tup][tup]

[Anonymous]

Here is my post to the Yahoo HO group on the same topic.

From my posision on the black hole of the model railroad universe (i.e.
Wyoming)Any model trains showing up at Walmart is a good thing. There
are only 5 hobby shops in the entire state, most of them on the far side.
Closest one is 90 miles. (Just imagine, "Hey honey be back in a few
hours. Need a bottle of paint and a tube of glue")I feel that even if
the Life-Like standard line of crap were to be put up for sale, I would
strongly consider buying it, as I am so starved for parts and pieces, I
have quite literally had to resort to using second hand brass track. (Oh
the depths that I have fallen.) Out in Wyoming model railroading is
existing at a 1940s level of existance and I have to make stuff from
what I can adapt from non traditional hobby sources. Let me tell you,
you can make foam core buildings look really really good. The parts and
pieces I can't substitue, I ether have to wait until I can get to a
hobby shop, or mail order. Which I get to do about twice a year. And
then the items I can't find anyplace else, I get from ebay. (About 6
times a year) So If Walthers wants to let Walmart sell Life-Like, let
them, Be a viable source of parts I can scavange and adapt. Maybe
Walthers will figure out how to adapt their Trainline Mechinsim to the
El-cheapo Life-Like shells so we can get some decent running engines at
decent prices. Trainline and Trainset Life-Like sell at similar full
retail priceing so I can't imagine Walthers would be taking that big a
hit by changing drives.

Just some of my thoughts on my situation. As for the end of hobby shop
trains, if you don;t have any hobby shops to start with, are you really
missing anything?

James.

[davekelly]

I don't believe that Walthers is selling the sets at a loss. The article linked by Bergie says that Walthers will be receiving a smaller profit margin than they are used to. Unless Phil is using "smaller" to mean "negative" it would appear that there is a positive profit margin.

[howmus]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit

I don't think it would necessarily kill the LHS - as others have said, Wal-Mart are unlikely to want to stock most of the Walthers range apart from the cheap trainsets (in the event of the contract being renewed).

Its not the LHS that are most likely to go belly up immediately at least. The question is: how many sets of stuff can Walther's afford to sell at a loss before they file for bankruptcy??? His hope has to be that it will generate enough interest in high quality equip that can only be gotten on line or at the LHS to offset the loss of profit they will experience doing business with Mall-Wart. However, if the history of the hobby holds true, buying the cheap crap that will be sold at Mall-Wart will probably drive many future MRs away from the hobby..........

[Anonymous]

This will spell the end of Walthers as they are forced to use all their resources to fill massive Wal Mart orders.[xx(]

[Anonymous]

I don't think it would necessarily kill the LHS - as others have said, Wal-Mart are unlikely to want to stock most of the Walthers range apart from the cheap trainsets (in the event of the contract being renewed). If they're cheap enough, some of the items in those sets make excellent kitbash fodder - can anyone see Wal-Mart selling the other equipment you need to convert a trainset into a complete layout? I think that if anything a good supply of cheap start sets will help the LHS, as the buyers will probably go there in search of additional parts. The tricky part then will be whether the LHS can stock enough budget models to keep their interest - if they only see $20+ boxcars and $100+ locos they're unlikely to conclude that this is a hobby they can afford to get involved in.

[Anonymous]

To vsmith

I have worked for Wally world and K mart you might want to recheck. Yes they sell a lot of cheap stuff but the last time I worked there I saw people bring back products that they beat, battered and abused and clamed O I only used it once MY A@# The return policy is the customer is always right that is way most of us have to pay higher prices.So at the end of summer and you see the guy bringing back the lawn mower thank him for the higher price you are going to pay next year.

[vsmith]

Theres no mention of any model train, the last time I was in a Swill-Mart I saw nada!
So the sky isnt falling yet!

Even if Walthers agreed to sell model trains at Wart-Mart it would invariably be the El Cheepo X-mas-tree sets, heck, even the local Sav-on's here have the xmas bottom dweller sets each year.

Wallyworld is NOT known for high quality products, period. Cheap products, cheap quality, cheap everything. If it breaks come back and buy another seams to be there motto.

[potlatcher]

Pure speculation here, but if Walthers negotiates a contract with Wally World next year, and if that contract includes model railroad items, I can't see WalMart buying anything other than train sets, not individual cars, locomotives, or accessories.

When I was a kid in the late 70's / early 80's, there were still some train sets sold in retail stores like K-Mart, Sears, Fred Meyer, etc . . . These were almost all Tyco sets, with some Bachman and Life-Like sets in later years. I don't believe the sale of these sets represented any great threat to my LHS, which did not stock more than one or two sets. Instead, my LHS saw those sets as a boon to their business, because when the crappy Tyco/Bachman/Life-Like engine fell apart after a few weeks, many dads would bring their kids into the LHS to see if it could be fixed. The LHS owner would explain why they couldn't be repaired, then show the family a blue-box Athearn that would run forever and be easily repaired if broken. In short, the discount store train sets did not take business away from the LHS - they actually brought more customers into the LHS.

I can see this same scenario developing if Walthers begins selling Life-Like train sets to WalMart (the quality of the Life-Like engines is still pretty poor as I understand it). Even if Walthers sold them its Trainline series of sets, with higher quality equipment than the Life-Like stuff, the LHS's could find ways to draw the owners of these sets into their stores to see what else is available. Who knows, we might end up with a lot of younger model railroaders - just what the hobby really needs!

One problem with this theory is the dwindling availability of inexpensive but high-quality Athearn blue box kits. If Dad brings Junior into the LHS after Christmas and all he sees are $120 locomotives and $20 RTR boxcars, he'll walk right out again. If Horizon is smart, they can ride Walthers' coattails by releasing more blue box kits just in time to meet this new demand.

Of course, this all hinges on a contract between Walthers and WalMart that may never happen. And that depends on whether WalMart perceives any interest among consumers for train sets - selling NASCAR slot car sets is a no-brainer, but selling trains may be another story.

Tom

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

At the most I see Wal-Mart having a Model Railroad selection similar to what is at Hobby Lobby and places like that. Folks will still need LHS or other suppliers to get all our stuff.

Well if it's like our HobbyLobby here, they have N scale mixed with G scale mixed with doll house stuff. I have found a couple of odd ball items my LHS doesn't carry, as well as they have a great paint selection as well as Evergreen and Plastruct.

It just makes me uneasy seeing anyone deal with Walmart, let alone when Walmart opens 5 superstores in a 10 mile radius of where I live. Worse yet, is they are all busy [:0]

[davekelly]

Thanks Bergie for the entire article. Of course knowing more facts makes arguing so much less fun! I never knew that Life Like was owned by someone else previous to the Walthers buy - I thought Life Like was owned by old time hobbiest, not some mega corporation holding company. Interesting to say the least.

I still don't think that Walthers selling to WalMart will slam LHS's that much. I can't for the life of me picturing Walthers having more than half an aisle (if that much) of train stuff. At the most I see Wal-Mart having a Model Railroad selection similar to what is at Hobby Lobby and places like that. Folks will still need LHS or other suppliers to get all our stuff.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ebriley

Hey, guys! Can you all read? The deal was cut between Life Like and Walthers BEFORE WALTHERS BOUGHT LIFE LIKE. Like the good honest operators they are Walthers is honoring the contract. It is for the toy quality stuff, not for high end P2K locomotives, etc. So Walthers is honest enough to honor the contract signed prior to their take over and we flame them to death for doing it. Guys, grow up, and THINK!

Ah not so quick to say what you just stated, I DID READ THE NEWSTORY: gander at this statement:

QUOTE: In October, Walthers will begin negotiations for Christmas 2006 with Wal-Mart and others. He knows the high-volume business will mean lower profit margins than he's used to, but he sees it as an avenue to introduce young people to the hobby industry. He also hopes to convince Wal-Mart to carry additional products in the Walthers line.

He states they are also negotiating with Walmart as a Walthers contract for 2006. Also if you read the last line, and though they don't state what they are also looking at additional products. So maybe it's the little remote control cars they mentioned or more slot car stuff, OR maybe Walthers is like almost every other corporation in the US and wants more $$$ and see Walmart (the big deathstar of the retail business) as a way to maybe move some of their Walther or LifeLike train stuff, and I am only a$$uming this, but maybe you need to read the article also. I seem to have a different take as to what is happening. If all is just non-railroad stuff cool, but if they are moving into model railroad stuff, I think this will be a slap to all the LHS's they have done business with and they the LHS have helped keep Walthers in the game, maybe not or maybe more then a Walmart deal will do. I guess time will tell.

[Anonymous]

Hey, guys! Can you all read? The deal was cut between Life Like and Walthers BEFORE WALTHERS BOUGHT LIFE LIKE. Like the good honest operators they are Walthers is honoring the contract. It is for the toy quality stuff, not for high end P2K locomotives, etc. So Walthers is honest enough to honor the contract signed prior to their take over and we flame them to death for doing it. Guys, grow up, and THINK!
If the Life Like toy line, including slot cars, appears at Walmart-so what. It sure isn't going to show up at any of the true hobby shops I frequent. As pointed out above there probably isn't enough volume in true scale hobby equipment to meet Walmart's volume requirements. And if Walter's makes a bundle on toy sales through Walmart then great! They'll have money to expand the scale lines we purchase!

Cheers

[Bergie]

As mentioned in the Editor's Note that I included at the bottom of the initial post, there are two additional pages to that story. Read the full story here:

http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/08/29/newscolumn1.html?page=1

Bergie

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Darth Santa Fe

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergmiester

If If walther's affiliates with Wal-mart will they become....

Wally-Others?

More like, Walther-Mart, or, Wallythers, or, Wal-Thers.[:D][:D]

I've got it!! How many names can we come up with for a combonation of the names Walthers and Wal-Mart!?[:D][:p][:D][:p][:D]

How about just WALMART, I think they would gobble up poor ole Walthers.