What color is creosote?

[electrolove]

What color is creosote and what was it used for on the prototype?

[simon1966]

It is a very dark brown, almost black, oil (I think) based liquid used to preserve wood. It stinks, I remember having to creosote a wooden fence when I was a kid! Anyway, typical use would be the treatment of railroad ties.

[electrolove]

simon1966:

Thanks for the great answer.

[Anonymous]

There was a creosote plant in Macon right across the street, and the RAILROAD TRACKS from the Krystal where we used to all go TO WATCH TRAINS COMING DOWN THE CENTRAL OF GEORGIA when I was in school. I'm with simon, but I must admit, I can't recall and brown qualities at all. I remember it puddling up at the bottom of telephone poles, and oozing out of cracks....always near the bottom. It does have a smell......although I kinda liked it. LMAO. To my knowledge, creosote isn't used anymore. I may be wrong on that. What I'm not wrong about is, in the late 70s, the plant I spoke of was shut down by the EPA because of soil and water contamination. To this day, there still is nothing on that property, and it is cordoned off by a high chain link fence with barbed wire on top. The plant was located right next to a public park, lake and playground. It was a really big mess. I wish I could think of something to compare the smell to, but I can't. It has a smell all it's own, and I've never smelled anything else like it. As simon pointed out, it was a preservative. It was pressure injected much like some of today's pressure treatments. It was thick. I mean REAL thick. I don't think it ever dries out completely. I can remember digging in it with a stick and breaking the top layer off, and it was still gooey inside. It had a kinda semi gloss finish...sometimes more gloss, but not totally shiny, if that makes sence.

QUOTE: Originally posted by electrolove

What color is creosote and what was it used for on the prototype?

[electrolove]

GearDrivenSteam:

Thanks for your very good and detailed description. I can almost smell it [:D]

I have heard that creosote can cause cancer. But I'm not sure.

[GRAMRR]

To me, it has kind of a fuel oil smell but "heavier" if ya know what I mean. Color as applied to wooden ties, fence posts, etc., is blackish brown, brownish black, take your pick. Heavily applied areas have a semi-gloss to glossy texture. It looks like ---- brand new railroad ties and the bottoms of brand new utility poles.[:D][:D][:D]

[bogp40]

Dark walnut wood stains (Miniwax etc) are very close to fresh creosoted ties or timbers.
However age and weathering to various degrees lightens ties and other timbers. Very old ties can become almost a silvery gray.
Bob K.

[Anonymous]

Probably causes cancer, two headed babies and all sorts of awful stuff. Like I said though, I dont think they use it anymore. I may be wrong. I know they don't make it in Macon anymore. LMAO

QUOTE: Originally posted by electrolove

GearDrivenSteam:

Thanks for your very good and detailed description. I can almost smell it [:D]

I have heard that creosote can cause cancer. But I'm not sure.

[Adelie]

A google search turned up this link:
http://www.nsc.org/library/chemical/Creosote.htm.

[TBat55]

Ahh coal! What wonderful stuff.

Creosote made from coal tar:
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts85.html

[electrolove]

TBat55:

I think it's best to stay away from creosote...

Creosote is a mixture of many chemicals. Eating food or drinking water with high levels of creosote may cause burning in the mouth, and throat, stomach pains, severe skin irritation, convulsions, and kidney and liver problems.

Can someone give me a coke please? [:D]

[Anonymous]

We used to creosote our garden fence every so often until the sale of creosote was banned. It's a dark brown colour, and has a very distinctive smell (which is actually rather pleasant outdoors - probably highly dangerous without that ventilation). It used to do wonders for getting rid of weeds growing along the bottom of said fence too - the inevitable splashes would kill them off. Bear in mind that a creosoted fence will look different to rail ties or telegraph poles - the latter two are pressure treated in a big vat (rather like a locomotive boiler in design - our local timber yard does this "to order" using whatever the creosote replacement is). Fences are usually treated with a brush or sprayer, so they tend to be a lighter colour than pressure treated items. Hope this is of use!

[electrolove]

Railroading_Brit:

Thanks, yes really appreciated.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit

We used to creosote our garden fence every so often until the sale of creosote was banned. It's a dark brown colour, and has a very distinctive smell (which is actually rather pleasant outdoors - probably highly dangerous without that ventilation). It used to do wonders for getting rid of weeds growing along the bottom of said fence too - the inevitable splashes would kill them off. Bear in mind that a creosoted fence will look different to rail ties or telegraph poles - the latter two are pressure treated in a big vat (rather like a locomotive boiler in design - our local timber yard does this "to order" using whatever the creosote replacement is). Fences are usually treated with a brush or sprayer, so they tend to be a lighter colour than pressure treated items. Hope this is of use!

[Virginian]

Wood used to be pressure treated with creosote to prevent bugs and rot. It was EXTREMELY effective, and the degree of protection was measured in the density of the creosote absorbed in pounds per cubic foot. If I remember correctly 24 was top of the line for water immersion, and 16 pounds was for ground contact. It was done by placing the logs or lumber in a large vat, heating with steam, and then pulling a high degree of vacuum and flooding the chamber with hot creosote. The creosote displaced a large percentage of the moisture in the wood.
The salt treating used today is more environmentally friendly, but doesn't work nearly as well as the salt leaches out over time. Creosote was designed to kill stuff... and it did.

[dave9999]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GearDrivenSteam

There was a creosote plant in Macon right across the street, and the RAILROAD TRACKS from the Krystal where we used to all go TO WATCH TRAINS COMING DOWN THE CENTRAL OF GEORGIA when I was in school. I'm with simon, but I must admit, I can't recall and brown qualities at all. I remember it puddling up at the bottom of telephone poles, and oozing out of cracks....always near the bottom. It does have a smell......although I kinda liked it. LMAO. To my knowledge, creosote isn't used anymore. I may be wrong on that. What I'm not wrong about is, in the late 70s, the plant I spoke of was shut down by the EPA because of soil and water contamination. To this day, there still is nothing on that property, and it is cordoned off by a high chain link fence with barbed wire on top. The plant was located right next to a public park, lake and playground. It was a really big mess. I wish I could think of something to compare the smell to, but I can't. It has a smell all it's own, and I've never smelled anything else like it. As simon pointed out, it was a preservative. It was pressure injected much like some of today's pressure treatments. It was thick. I mean REAL thick. I don't think it ever dries out completely. I can remember digging in it with a stick and breaking the top layer off, and it was still gooey inside. It had a kinda semi gloss finish...sometimes more gloss, but not totally shiny, if that makes sence.

GDS,
We have the same situation here in Pensacola. There is an old creosote
plant that closed years ago... Escambia Treating was the name, I believe.
Anyway, the EPA has done the identical thing here. They have a huge fence
around the area and they have also dug a huge crator, probably the size
of three footbal fields. The dirt that came from the crator is in huge mounds
around the hole and covered with giant tarps.

The EPA relocated hundreds of residents. I worked right next to this area for
about six years... kinda got me thinking.

Electro,
The walnut stain that Robert Knapp recomended is what I used on a
small pier that I built. It looks very much like freshly applied creosote.
What I used was Minwax Gel Stain Walnut #606 Good luck, Dave

[electrolove]

Something like this?

[Big_Boy_4005]

It's most common uses in the US are telephone / power poles, and railroad ties of course. It hasn't been completely banned, I suspect because an equally effective substitute hasn't been found. I believe it is forced into the wood under pressure, filling the pores, and locking moisture out.

If you have ever had a chance to work on a real railroad, and replace a tie, you will learn to hate new ties. They are about 100 pounds heavier than old ties that have had the creasote leached out. Now-a-days, this work is all done by machine on the major railroads.

[steffd]

I have a utility pole in my backyard that is covered in creosote and has slowly been oozing down over the past 3 years since being erected in our new residential development and has finally reached the bottom. I have included a link to a photograph that I have taken, as I believe a picture is worth a thousand words. This should hopefully give you a better perspective on the color.

Stephan

http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/steffd72/detail?.dir=/b02d&.dnm=e62e.jpg&.src=ph

[electrolove]

Yes, that was a nice picture. If I understand it right, the lower part of the pole is the 'new' creosote color. And the rest is after a couple of years. Thanks a lot for the great picture.

QUOTE: Originally posted by steffd


I have a utility pole in my backyard that is covered in creosote and has slowly been oozing down over the past 3 years since being erected in our new residential development and has finally reached the bottom. I have included a link to photograph that I have taken, as I believe a picture is worth a thousand words. This should hopefully give you a better perspective on the color.

Stephan

http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/steffd72/detail?.dir=/b02d&.dnm=e62e.jpg&.src=ph

[tatans]

B L A C K ! ! ! VERY,VERY,VERY BLACK, and very poisionous and carcinogenic and very hard to get off your hands and not nice stuff.

[rexhea]

Electrolove: I use railroad tie brown on my wood and then use india ink/alcohol wa***o darken towards the creosote color. The darker... the newer the ties or trestle parts would be. New creosote boards are almost tar black while old creosote boards/poles lighten up to an almost rusty brown color.

REX

[Anonymous]

I have occasional business dealings with Koppers, Inc. in Galesburg, IL. Here they treat wood with creosote to make railroad ties. The ties are treated in pressure vessels. The whole process may include periods of vacuum mainly to suck out moisture and periods of pressure to force the creosote into the wood. When taken out of the vessels when treatment is complete, the ties are black.

[Anonymous]

Marine applications in pilings and deck lumber is the third application along with telephone poles and rail road ties. I remember it as being more black than brown. A pain to get off a painted boat hull or the "fenders' or bumpers used to protect the hulls from damage. You have to feel for the people who worked in the coal/coke industry for creosotes/coal tar cancer link.
Will

[dave9999]

Creosote is black, but the underlying wood does show through, giving it a blackish browncolor when it is on. Although, black is the more dominent color, the photo that Stephan linked to has an extremely generous amount of creosote at the base. And notice the dead grass. This stuff can't be good for you. Good luck, Dave

http://us.f3.yahoofs.com/users/43109cbbzb9274b22/b02d/__sr_/e62e.jpg?phvQQEDBzf7OTfyu
Stephan,
I hope you don't mind me linking to your pic.

As for the smell... I can smell it now, just thinking about it.[:D]

[selector]

The colour sample you showed, EL, is a bit 'brown'. Creosoted ties are essentially black, tarry, and sticky, especially on road s where the quality of ballast is poor. Because the drainage on some spurs is poor, the ties have to be more heavily creosoted than on a main. Also, even though the treatment was meant to preserve the timber for long periods of time, trestle bridges of timbers were never meant to be permanent. Railroads rushed their track into production to generate revenue, but they almost always intended/planned to replace trestles with steel girders when possible. So, it is usually abandoned trestles that age to the silver-gray look over time...like the Kinsol trestle I photo'd a while back.

Peronally, I used "Burnt Umber" and "Plaid" acrylic paints on mine because using solvent baised stains increases the aerosols and contaminants inside the house. Just my two cents worth.

[steffd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999

Creosote is black, but the underlying wood does show through, giving it a blackish browncolor when it is on. Although, black is the more dominent color, the photo that Stephan linked to has an extremely generous amount of creosote at the base. And notice the dead grass. This stuff can't be good for you. Good luck, Dave

http://us.f3.yahoofs.com/users/43109cbbzb9274b22/b02d/__sr_/e62e.jpg?phvQQEDBzf7OTfyu
Stephan,
I hope you don't mind me linking to your pic.

As for the smell... I can smell it now, just thinking about it.[:D]

No Problem Dave, that's what the photo's there for. Your right, the stuff can't be good for you at all. Funny enough though overhear they banned pesticides, herbicides (except in agricultural use) and traditional pressure treated lumber for patio and fence construction but allow Creosote treated utility poles in peoples backyards [xx(]. As for the utility pole in my yard, I need to contact the Power Company to have them clean up the mess and perhaps replace the dead grass and soil around the pole as it is obviously contaminated as I have a 19-month-old and a dog that both play in the yard. I was just waiting for the bulk to run down to the bottom.

Stephan