Religion, politics, and other Trains.com forum no-nos

[Roadtrp]

Keeping topics on trains sounds good to me. There are enough battles here over MTH and the Union Pacific. Who needs more??

[:D]

People also need to remember that unlike most forums, this forum is hosted by a business (Kalmbach Publishing). It would make no sense for them to risk offending current or potential customers by allowing controversial topics.

[Anonymous]

In the word of that great philosopher Linus Van Pelt "Three things I never discuss with people: politics, religion, and the great pumpkin."
James[C):-)]

[ereimer]

well done !

i missed the threads in question so i can't offer any comments on them , but really don't we have enough to fight about .... like which is better , steam or diesel ?

[:D]

[Anonymous]

It has all been said here, except for the subtlety in P. Carrell's signature that I have marvelled at since I first noted it. The respect we have for one another should be obvious in the way we treat one another with or without "words".
Will

[rtstasiak]

Let me help by injecting a little humor.

"There is great exaggeration about the degree to which gentle-men discuss politics and religion in the barbershop. Would you want to arouse partisan or sectarian anger around so many sharp and pointed things found in such an establishment? Actually, I would probably defer to the barber's point of view, most assuredly so during a close shave."

-Anonymous

[grayfox1119]

You are right on the money Bergie, I totally agree with you, this forum is about model railroads and trains...END OF STORY FOLKS!!!

[Anonymous]

I work nights on track taking lines for Engineers Possessions. On four track we can have the slow lines closed and the fast lines open to traffic. Let me assure all of you that a Pendolino doing 125mph doesn't ask what your religion, politics or sexual orientation are...it just gives you a very swift, permanent enema. On track we have to have our wits about us... in life I would suggest that consideration, politeness and tolerance would save all of us a lot of grief.

If you are not familiar with the word "tolerance" look up Bishop Burnet of Salisbury c 1700... see the "Conclusion" to his "A History of My Own time". He lived a lot closer to the times when they burnt people alive for being the "wrong kind of Christian"...anyone else they just chopped up.

I didn't put it in my profile, but I had a life changing experience due to the Vietnam War... when I was building my first bike I was throwing a tantrum because I couldn't find a part or a tool... the news came on, on Radio Luxembourg (the only decent radio you could get here then)...some South Vietnamese village had just been obliterated with napalm in a "friendly fire" incident... I stopped dead and asked myself what my problem was? I wasn't a Believer of any sort then... but it changed my whole life.
When we are full of food, secure and comfortable we have time and energy to get into meaningless fights to establi***o which nth degree we are more correct than the other guy.

As a Believer -- no, just as a human being -- I have to ask myself "Does making someone else look stupid show how much my God loves him... or me"?

[fec153]

I agree with Brother Krump.
Bergie has the throttle [PUN INTENDED]. Full steam ahead.
Flip

[Anonymous]

This is a model railroading forum. More than that, this is "Model Railroader's"/Kalmbach's model railroading forum. It's their home, and when you visit someone else's home, you abide by their rules. That's nothing more than civil, responsible, and expected behavior.

I don't care one bit about the political, religious, sexual or other social, moral, or economic preferences of anyone else here, and I don't expect anyone else to care about my view on such topics. If I was the least bit interested in discussing any of those topics (and I most assuredly am not), then a hobby forum would be the last place I would visit to do so. There are literally hundreds--perhaps even thousands--of other forums on the Internet that deal with those subjects, and more.

I come here to learn from the experience, expertise, and talents of those who enjoy this hobby--nothing more and nothing less. And, from time to time, I hopefully am able to share some of my own experience with others who will some benefit from what I have to offer.

It's great to see that the moderators here maintain control over off-topic or inflammatory dialog. That's the way it should be.

[Train 284]

AMEN BROTHER!!!!!!! [bow][bow][bow][bow][bow][bow]

[jxtrrx]

Bergie is right. And please notice that there is not a lot of disagreement with him... only one or two folks with repeated posts.

[tcf511]

Thanks Bergie for clarifying your position with which I agree. There are thousands of forums out there on all subjects. The name of the game on this one is model railroading. I would prefer to keep it that way.

[krump]

I agree with my brother Bergie. Back to Training...cuz that's what we do

[espeefoamer]

The EMD vs GE debate causes enough flaming on these forums,we don't need posts on religion or politics.We can post our religious or political beliefs in our signature,as I have.We should leave it at that.

[ARTHILL]

Thank you Bergie.

[egmurphy]

Makes you wonder sometimes if people ever read the site rules when they register, before simply clicking on the button that says "I Agree" to abide by them.


Regards

Ed

[Anonymous]

Does anyone see this going the way of the other topics in this vein? I wonder what all this means? Life, Liberty and the pursuit of a clean UP engine.

[dave9999]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainluver1

QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999

Another trend on this forum... Every time a topic gets deleted, someone always
feels the need to start another about it being deleted. This usually just picks up
where the deleted one left off.

To me, this is disrespectful and an abuse of our PRIVILEGE to use Trains.com's
forum. When Bergie deletes a topic, it has always been for a good reason. If someone
needs to know why(which is usually pretty obvious) a topic was deleted, I'm sure
a quick email to Bergie will get you the answer. Like I said, posting a brand new
topic about it only gets the whole mess going again.

I love college football, but how out of place would it be if I was to post a topic called: "What's
your favorite college football team"? Same thing... a topic on religion just doesn't fit into the
subject of this site. What next? (Poll) "What color are your eyes"? Just doesn't belong... Good luck, Dave

Texas A & M (Aggies). Green. Anymore examples ?...

Don't get me wrong guys, I have the greatest respect for Bergie, I just wanted to make my point.

Tell you what. Let's take a vote and see what the members say.

trainluver1

Trainluver,
That's my point. It doesn't matter what the members want. This forum is
not set up for us to make the rules... only to play by them. If Bergie or anyone
else at Trains.com decides something is inapropriate, that's their decision
to make. We are guest in their home... I agreed to that when I signed up.
Good luck, Dave

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999

Another trend on this forum... Every time a topic gets deleted, someone always
feels the need to start another about it being deleted. This usually just picks up
where the deleted one left off.

To me, this is disrespectful and an abuse of our PRIVILEGE to use Trains.com's
forum. When Bergie deletes a topic, it has always been for a good reason. If someone
needs to know why(which is usually pretty obvious) a topic was deleted, I'm sure
a quick email to Bergie will get you the answer. Like I said, posting a brand new
topic about it only gets the whole mess going again.

I love college football, but how out of place would it be if I was to post a topic called: "What's
your favorite college football team"? Same thing... a topic on religion just doesn't fit into the
subject of this site. What next? (Poll) "What color are your eyes"? Just doesn't belong... Good luck, Dave

Texas A & M (Aggies). Green. Anymore examples ?...

Don't get me wrong guys, I have the greatest respect for Bergie, I just wanted to make my point.

Tell you what. Let's take a vote and see what the members say.

trainluver1

[egmurphy]

QUOTE: trainfreak409: That why we have a place like the Coffee Shop, an entire off-topic thread. If you don't want to talk about trains, you don't have to. True general discussion is the name of the game there.

General discussion, with the exception that we don't talk about religion, politics or sex over there either.


Regards

Ed

[Anonymous]

Thanks much Bergie, I commented on the thread in question, but I felt it was a bad idea, although I, too, am a life-long Christian. Well said.

uspscsx

[dave9999]

Another trend on this forum... Every time a topic gets deleted, someone always
feels the need to start another about it being deleted. This usually just picks up
where the deleted one left off.

To me, this is disrespectful and an abuse of our PRIVILEGE to use Trains.com's
forum. When Bergie deletes a topic, it has always been for a good reason. If someone
needs to know why(which is usually pretty obvious) a topic was deleted, I'm sure
a quick email to Bergie will get you the answer. Like I said, posting a brand new
topic about it only gets the whole mess going again.

I love college football, but how out of place would it be if I was to post a topic called: "What's
your favorite college football team"? Same thing... a topic on religion just doesn't fit into the
subject of this site. What next? (Poll) "What color are your eyes"? Just doesn't belong... Good luck, Dave

[Anonymous]

Bergie

Thanks for clearing up the do's and don't's. Bravo and yes, let's talk, play, build and post more pictures of trains.

Dave

[pcarrell]

Burgie,

While I must agree with your comments in general (we are here to discuss trains after all) I feel that I must comment on your thoughtful post.

You see, ALL religions, and indeed even atheism and agnosticism (they are religions too), shape a persons world view. All religions, and even no religion, shapes how a person views themselves and everything around them. This is a basic psychological and philosophical truth.

It would be difficult at best to not have some sliver of your worldview enter your conversation, after all, that shapes how you see things. If you were to never let your viewpoint be known then you would be little more then a machine that has no personality and only spews out fact and figures.

Now I know I have seen many worldviews put forth in suttle ways right here on this forum. There are some people who often have a negative word for whatever is being discussed. I have seen people who use language that I feel is offensive. I feel sorry for them as they probably have had a very rough life and have very little hope. Maybe this hobby is their only enjoyment out of life. They just are so overwhelmed by the rest of life that it just creeps into their writing. Others that post here are often full of encouragement and usually have kind things to say. They may have a much easier row to hoe then the others, and it shows.

I think that you can see what I mean. Your world view definately influences your thinking, and therefore, how you respond to the world.

I am a Christian, like you. I am actually in pre-seminary school now (well, not this exact second, but you know what I mean). I feel called to proclaim my Savior in all that I do (in fact, thats what Scripture commands a Christian to do)(see my signature; this is my motto).

I do know however that this is not the focus of this forum, so I try to limit the scope of what I write about to the topic at hand. I am sure though, that if one were to look at what I've wrote in the past, knowing this is my world view, that they would be able to see that pattern in my writing. Does my writing ALWAYS reflect that view? No, I'm not perfect and so sometimes I don't come across as I should maybe. When that happens, and I do say some thing out of character, I do not erase it however, as that would not be genuine. Rather, I apologize, ask for forgiveness from those I need to, and move on. I do edit my posts sometimes, but I don't think I've ever taken anything off of my post, I've only added more to the post.

I suppose because of this I have occasionally been asked straight up what I believe (or maybe it's because of my signature). In those cases I am only to happy to share my faith; by Email. This is not the place for that.

I agree with the idea that this is not a place that is suitable for these kinds of discussions, but to say that your personal worldview cannot be expressed is to ask that we deny our personalities. This is what makes us "human".

GearDrivenSteam was pushing the limits of the discussion matter with his post, that is assured. I do find it important to generally talk within the subect matter of this forum, I just wouldn't want an unrealistic standard to be set, thats all.

On a more personal note, I do hope that you reconcider talking to a friend (outside of this forum) about your beliefs. You're only a true friend if you do! ( I hope I didn't just step across the line! If I did, I apologize. I'm kind of new around here (sort of) and as we can see by this topic the rules need a little more definition.)

[TrainFreak409]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainluver1

I'm sorry, Bergie, but I don't agree with you... I know this is your site, and you could kick me off of it with the single stroke of your mouse, but I'm not afraid of you.
Have you ever considered that maybe some of us get tired of talking about trains all the time and might want to talk about other things ?.

That why we have a place like the Coffee Shop, an entire off-topic thread. If you don't want to talk about trains, you don't have to. True general discussion is the name of the game there. Or, you could just go to another forum strictly about whatever you want to talk about.

QUOTE:
So what if people get into heated arguements. That's a healthy thing to do every now and then. I don't know if you've gotten out much lately, but the real world isn't a sterile place, so why should this forum be either. What I'm saying is why not let people be people and stop trying to control everything. Let people find out the hard way what they shouldn't bring up or talk about here.
I'm not a holy roller in the least bit, but I have no problem with others if that's what they want to talk about or argue over. The same goes for anything else due to the fact that it's a free country.

trainluver1

Well, I must disagree. I'm not sure about you, but I don't like the flaming that goes on it this forum. And I congratulate Bergie for his police-work efforts, as well as the members for their self-policing efforts. Yes the real world is far from perfect were arguments are very common, but I do like to get away from that every now and then.

My [2c]

[selector]

Tainluver1, you may not agree, and Bergie, I'm pretty sure, would insist on your right state as much, but he sets the rules, and participation here is contingent upon following them.....or else....

I said it myself earlier in that other thread; we signed on agreeing to rules of discourse, and one of the rules was not that we could choose which ones to ignore.

Play the game....and it's TRAINS.

[howmus]

Thank You Bergie! Lets all go and play Trains!

[Anonymous]

Glad we got the air clear. There's a whole internet out there for people of this or that religion, persuasion, race, etc. We're here because we have something else in common....

So let's leave religion, politics, and other heated subjects to forums that focus on those things. We're here to talk trains.

Toot toot.

EDIT - I think some folks might not quite get the concept of a focused forum...if there's something else you want to talk about, there are a gazillion other places designed for you to talk about that thing. I guess it makes sense if you want to discuss certain things with friends you've made here...but if things got lax it would be pretty darned inconvenient to have to search through pages of fluff to find one good thread on something related to trains. Maybe we should have a general-general forum seperate from everything else for folks who want to shoot the breeze...

But then again...if you don't want to talk about trains...well you're definitely in the wrong place.

No offense intended.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bergie

I know I've made a few people upset by deleting the recent "are you a Christian?" threads. Let me explain why we like to keep away from religion and politics in our forums (for any new users this might be the first time you've heard of these guidelines).

Before I go on I must admit that I (a life-long Christian, I might add) was more than just a little amused by the comment "The persecution of Christians continues" by GearDrivenSteam in the second thread after I deleted the first thread. I'm not persecuting anyone... in fact, I'm trying to avoid persecutions by not allowing talk about religion.

Simply put, most discussions about religion and politics typically lead to arguments between otherwise perfectly good friends. Everyone has their own beliefs on the two subjects, and they can vary greatly. The last thing we need between the otherwise perfect friendships that we have in this forum is for someone who's not a Christian to stand up and say "what about my religion? Do you think you're superior to me?" Believe me, it's happened and all H-E-double-you-know-what has ensued. Thus, we don't allow it.

In closing (and most of you long-time users have heard this before), when I was a teen my father told me to never discuss politics with a friend because it would only lead to bad feelings. At the time I really didn't understand it, because most teens have a million things on their mind before politics. As I grew, I added religion to that list. If I've established a friendship with someone without prior knowledge of the beliefs, why should I care later on what their beliefs are. A few weeks back I added marital status (after that simple question lead down an argument-filled road).

I hope you all understand my point of view. We're all here under a common bond: model trains. Let's not ruin that bond with discussions about topics that may potentially be harmful despite the best intentions.

Have a super weekend everyone,
Bergie

I'm sorry, Bergie, but I don't agree with you... I know this is your site, and you could kick me off of it with the single stroke of your mouse, but I'm not afraid of you.
Have you ever considered that maybe some of us get tired of talking about trains all the time and might want to talk about other things ?.
So what if people get into heated arguements. That's a healthy thing to do every now and then. I don't know if you've gotten out much lately, but the real world isn't a sterile place, so why should this forum be either. What I'm saying is why not let people be people and stop trying to control everything. Let people find out the hard way what they shouldn't bring up or talk about here.
I'm not a holy roller in the least bit, but I have no problem with others if that's what they want to talk about or argue over. The same goes for anything else due to the fact that it's a free country.
Oh well. You're going to do what you like because the ball is in your hands, but if you delete this reply and end my membership, that'll tell me all I need to know about you.

trainluver1

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by loathar

Hey Bergie- I like to think that we're all pretty good poeple posting here and pretty self policeing with profanity by useing[censored][banghead][soapbox] and try to keep this a family friendly place. Do you get a lot of nasty stuff being posted here that we never even get to see before you delete it?

No, this forum is indeed great and it has a lot to do with users tipping me off (via e-mail) when inappropriate topics/language, etc. appear throughout the forum. That self-policing society certainly helps keep users in line.

Thanks,
Erik