Pink or Blue foam?

[tommann]

Hi;

Does anyone know where to find the Dow (blue ) or Owen Corning (pink) foam in the Los Angeles area? There is one place in Burbank, but they have a 4 pallet minimum. That's a LOT more scenery than I have!! (and much more money).[:(]

If you check the manufactures web sites, they say the usual Home depot or Lowes, but neither one have a clue down here. I guess its not cold enuf.

Thanks,
Tom Mann.

[Anonymous]

If you can't find something in Los Angeles, I feel for you brother.

[twhite]

Lots of luck ANYWHERE in California, my friend. Seems that the pink and blue foam is a threat to the habitat of the Central Valley Snarfing Snail or the Hooted Crapping Owl, or something, and all we seem to be able to get anymore is the beaded stuff. Ask at Home Depot these days and all you get is a blank stare.
I understand you can still get it in Nevada, where it hasn't been declared a threat to the habitat of the Las Vegas Stripping Snake yet, so it might be worth a trip. Other than that, lotsa luck. That's what happens to something here in California that works--it gets declared hazardous!
Tom [:(!][:(!]

[loathar]

I posted this once and nobody paid any attension to it. I contacted Owens Corning to ask where to get their 2" foam near me. I said I was going to carve mountains and terrain for train out of it. They sent me back an immediats WARNING, saying WE DO NOT RECOMMEND USEING OUR PRODUCT IN THIS MANNER. IT IS MADE TO BE ENCAPSULATED INTO WALL OR CEILING ONLY! DO NOT CARVE OR SAND THIS PRODUCT! WE ADVISE YOU TO STOP THIS HOBBY PRACTICE IMMEDIATLY!
Did anyone think to ask if doing this was safe?

[miniwyo]

Try some insulation supply stores, they usually have it. That is where I had to get mine, we don't have theese big home improvement stores here quite yet (Home Depot is opening the 18th YAY!!!) The 1 1/2" blue foam I got cost about $18. (however I manged to get mine for free because I taught the owner how to swim [:)]

[bogp40]

There was a post similar to this last month. I beleive that someone had found a supplier somewhere in So. Ca. (LA area).
Don't know why the foam is hard to find in the warmer climate regions, insuation is also needed for A/C as well as heating. Not all insulation can be accomplished with rolls or batt fiberglass.
Do a search, or maybe someone can help. Too bad- regular styrofoam(beaded crap) is horrible to work with.
Bob K.

[Big_Boy_4005]

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=41485

[selector]

I have a hard time seeing why the extruded foam should be unsuitable for modeling, unless there is something about the chemicals added to Owen's stuff that makes it volatile and injurious over time. Besides, most of us paint over its surfaces with latex paint, so that acts as an enclosure....of sorts.

[loathar]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

I have a hard time seeing why the extruded foam should be unsuitable for modeling, unless there is something about the chemicals added to Owen's stuff that makes it volatile and injurious over time. Besides, most of us paint over its surfaces with latex paint, so that acts as an enclosure....of sorts.

I don't know why they said that. the only thing I can think is the dust from sanding and carving. I was going to use it, but now after that, I'm going to stick to wood and plaster.

[Anonymous]

I imagine that "warning" is just to protect themselves in this overly sue-happy society we live in. If the stuff really was all that dangerous, you can be darn sure there would be warnings printed all over the product itself.

Obviously, the foam creates dust when you carve or cut it with a knife or other such tool, and you need to avoid breating in those fine particles. I wear a respirator if I'm doing any serious carving to Extruded Polystyrene, and generally use a "hot knife" to do any detail work (which produces some fumes, but no dust).

Folks have been using this stuff for years--myself included--and I've yet to hear of anyone suffering any significant harm. The carved foam gets covered by a coat of paint or plaster in nearly all cases, or, in the way I use it, gets covered by a layer of Sculptamold. Besides, you can't live forever, and we all know by now that virtually everything we touch or consume these days is bad for us in one way or another. Just listen to or watch any daily news program and you'll find the latest items added to the list.

Regarding availability: Depends on what part of the country you live in. Those in warmer climates may have a hard time finding the stuff since it's sold as an insulating material. Those in colder climates (or more seasonal climates) will generally find it at most any well-stocked home supply store. I had no problem finding the stuff when I lived in the Milwaukee area. Have had a more difficult time finding it here in Virginia, although my local Home Depot began carrying it about a year or so ago.

[eridani]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

I have a hard time seeing why the extruded foam should be unsuitable for modeling, unless there is something about the chemicals added to Owen's stuff that makes it volatile and injurious over time. Besides, most of us paint over its surfaces with latex paint, so that acts as an enclosure....of sorts.

The problem appears that exposed extruded foam is considered a fire hazard, I found a reference to that from a dealer here in Toronto who linked to an Ont govt website on foam regulations which also say it must be sealed inside dry wall or whatever.

Now the question is [:)] when the foam is covered with hydrocal or sculptamold etc is it sealed just as if it was behind drywall?

[selector]

Yeah, I think it is safe. I can't be chemical or else it would be as unsuitable as asbestos, and be just as prohibited in construction. I can see the fire issue, but if your house is on fire, dangers from the foam are likely to be moot; either way, yer gonna grab yer trains first and then run like hell. The wife and kids? Let them grab their own stuff!!! [:o)][:D]

[Big_Boy_4005]

I can understand why they would warn against it's use if it was being sanded, but carving it into particles that are not an inhalation hazard doesn't strike me as being particularly dangerous. The fact that they put a plastic film over the sheet, does make me wonder if there isn't some potential chemical exposure issues. The stuff doesn't have any obvious odor, to indicate out gassing.

I agree, it may just be a general CYA warning, not specific.

[Anonymous]

see if you can find a cameron ashely warehouse, that's their specialty.

[DSchmitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Allan Miller

I imagine that "warning" is just to protect themselves in this overly sue-happy society we live in. If the stuff really was all that dangerous, you can be darn sure there would be warnings printed all over the product itself.

I am sure you are correct, but users should be aware that it is intended to be encapsulated. It does not burn, but high heat (flame or soldering iron for instance) causes it to evaporate. I am sure the gas is not healthy. The evaporation stops quickly when the heat source is removed or the material has evaporated to a point far enough away from the source.

Use water based paints and glues. The material will desolve because of the solvents in many paints and glues. I have used solvent s to quickly create depressions in it for streams and ponds, but this can be hard to control.

[Rotorranch]

I like the blue stuff....it's prettier than the pink stuff! [;)][:p][:)][:D]

BTW...I've picked up several pieces off the side of the raod...I guess it blew off a truck. ( OK...so I'm a scavenger....I also pick up sod for my yard off the road, and most of it lived! ) [:D]

Rotor

[Anonymous]

Reading this thread jogged my memory. When I fixed up my basement I put the foam board against the concrete block walls and put paneling over that. I remember reading a pamphlet at the store (one of the big-box home supply stores) about use of the foam board. It recommended that it be covered with a nonflammable material (plaster board was used as an example). I suppose maybe some areas made this recommendation part of their building codes, which might be why it's not sold in some areas (??).

Anyway I decided to check its flammability. Not more than ten minutes ago, I tried to burn a piece of it outside in my back yard. I used a standard propane torch and a piece of Owen's pink foam. As long as the propane flame was in contact wioth the foam, the foam burned with a yellow flame that produced heavy, sooty, black smoke. After taking the propane flame away from the foam, the yellow flame self-extinguished itself in less than two seconds. I would assume that breathing the heavy black smoke would not be very healthy. I then tried this same experiment on a piece of white bead board. Pretty much the same thing happened - heavy black smoke - but this time it took about ten seconds for the flame to self-extinguish. I didn't have any blue foam to try.

[on30francisco]

Tomman, I know what you mean when you say you can't find the foam in your area. I am having a difficult time locating a store that sells it in the San Francisco Bay Area. I will probably have to use the old tried-and-true methods of plywood benchwork and hardshell scenery due to the lack of stores that sell foam. If anyone knows a store that sells foam in the Bay Area, please let me know.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Rotorranch

I like the blue stuff....it's prettier than the pink stuff! [;)][:p][:)][:D]

BTW...I've picked up several pieces off the side of the raod...I guess it blew off a truck. ( OK...so I'm a scavenger....I also pick up sod for my yard off the road, and most of it lived! ) [:D]

Rotor

You used real sod for the freight yard? [:p]

[grayfox1119]

I wi***here was an inexpensive way to ship you guys some, the Home Depot (HD) near us has plenty of 2" thick, 2' X 8' pink (ugh) foam insulation. Sometimes they have blue, but the Pink Panther gets mad.

[Anonymous]

Rotoranch: I also picked up about a dozen sheets of the blue dow stuff out of our alfalfa field, it had to be gotten out of the way, and what better way to get rid of it? The biggest problem was that it was 1/4 inch thick, so it took a lot of it to go a little way.

[Anonymous]

Pink or blue? I reckon that depends on whether you're a little boy model railroader or a little girl model railroader. LOL

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GearDrivenSteam

Pink or blue? I reckon that depends on whether you're a little boy model railroader or a little girl model railroader. LOL

Whew! Good thing I got blue [:)]

What about those that buy the green foam, which I have seen at Home Depot.

[twhite]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GearDrivenSteam

Pink or blue? I reckon that depends on whether you're a little boy model railroader or a little girl model railroader. LOL

Reminds me of my smart-a## neighbor (who I really like, BTW) when I was building my layout with the Corning pink stuff. He grinned and asked me if I 'special ordered' that particular color. After I put the WS risers on it, he would come over and ask me how the Strawberry Sundae was progressing.
By the way, there's NO way you're going to end up with 'dust' when you're carving extruded foam. You'd have to use an electric sander on it to get any dust, and the chances are that the friction from the sander would melt the stuff, anyway. Why we can't get it here in Northern California is beyond me--all we can get any more is the beaded stuff, and although I've had to use it, it's really crap!
Tom [:(!]

[selector]

Tom, it would almost be worth a trip up-state and into Washington to get a few sheets for the next go-around, wouldn't it? Camping trip, business (write-off?),whatever.

[fwright]

On30francisco and other NorCal dwellers

A building supplies and lumber store on south end of Anderson Drive in San Rafael - not Home Depot or OSH! - had both the foam and Homasote last I checked in April. Getting ready to buy some of each myself, will probably be in October, looking at my travel schedule. Will post if it's still there.

I'm having to bite my tongue about making snide remarks as to who their market is for the stuff given our incessant battles over real estate and construction in People's Republic of Marin. Glad I have model reailroading to make my mind off that stuff!

[Anonymous]

From the University of Nebraska-Lincoln Architecture website "...You fear pink foam, but know that blue foam is better..." :) (http://archweb.unl.edu/Survival/if.php)

[Anonymous]

I guess that's for alien model railroaders. LOL

QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman

QUOTE: Originally posted by GearDrivenSteam

Pink or blue? I reckon that depends on whether you're a little boy model railroader or a little girl model railroader. LOL

Whew! Good thing I got blue [:)]

What about those that buy the green foam, which I have seen at Home Depot.

[edkowal]

The reason that Dow Corning doesn't want you to use it in other than encapsulated form is indeed flammability. As someone else demonstrated, the foam will burn if kept in contact with a flame. Since we frequently use wood as a structural member, the chances of the styrofoam burning in a fire in your layout room are excellent. And remember that interior temperatures in a house fire become extremely high very rapidly. So the foam is likely to keep burning. The other problem is that the material produces toxic gases, and intense sooty smoke when it does burn. Visibility will be nonexistent almost immediately. Both the intense smoke and the toxicity result in a nightmare for the firefighters who arrive on the scene, and for you, if you are anywhere near that room.

If encapsulated in plaster, or wallboard, or similar flame retardant materials, it is much less likely to burn. If it takes some time for it to ignite, the idea is that the occupants will be able to escape without harm, and the firefighters may be able to put out the fire before the styrofoam catches fire.

It is probably a very good idea for folks using styrofoam for scenery to coat it both top and bottom with plaster, or some other non-flammable material for that reason. Painting it will NOT do anything. Paints shrivel up and can burn in a fire.

The caveat about sanding or carving relates to the possibility of a dust explosion if large amounts of airborne styrofoam dust comes in contact with a flame or spark.

This doesn't necessarily mean we shouldn't use it as a material. But we should be aware of the material's properties. Additional information can be found by doing an internet search using the terms styrofoam and flammability.

-Ed

[Rotorranch]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman

QUOTE: Originally posted by Rotorranch

I like the blue stuff....it's prettier than the pink stuff! [;)][:p][:)][:D]

BTW...I've picked up several pieces off the side of the raod...I guess it blew off a truck. ( OK...so I'm a scavenger....I also pick up sod for my yard off the road, and most of it lived! ) [:D]

Rotor

You used real sod for the freight yard? [:p]

And it takes forever to mow it with my HO scale Snapper lawnmower! ( At least it's a riding mower! ) [;)][:)][:D]

At least the cost of gas is only !/87(1/87.1) the cost of real gas![:0]

Rotor