Eureka, Paydirt! Now a Eureka DoubleHeader!

[SpaceMouse]

I just got my hands on a 1914 film of the Inagural run of the Northwestern Pacific Railroad. Of course my plan was to model it in 1917.

So what were the surprizes.

Steel bridges with huge concrete pilings.
Telephone pole running the entire length.
The inaugural train was a freighter with 117 cars.

And the biggest surprize:

The engine was a cab-forward.

Going up hill the smoke was so thick you couldn't see the tender.

(see below for second Eureka)

[cheese3]

sounds like a cool film, so do you have a good idea of what you are going to do now?

[ereimer]

cool !

i'll bet you were hoping to not have to model the telephone lines [:)]

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ereimer

cool !

i'll bet you were hoping to not have to model the telephone lines [:)]

Never crossed my mind.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cheese3

sounds like a cool film, so do you have a good idea of what you are going to do now?

I've had an idea for a while. I've had a good idea after finding that logging site with all the 1000's of photos. I've got the foot-print worked out with the schematic. I just have to digitally lay the track and let you guys rip on it.

Then there's still the technicality that I have to clear the basement and remodel it.

[JohnT14808]

Yeah, Chip....then there's applying for the second mortgage or cash draw against your home's equity, filing for the remodel permits with your local government, finding reasonably priced supplies, cajoling your spouse to give up HER vacation so you can stay home and work in the basement, etc. etc. etc.....but your plan is progressing and that is what counts....and eremier is correct..those telephone poles...some rows of poles I remember had four arms and maybe 16 lines on each arm. Should make for a neat addition to the layout!!!! heheheheh.......

[SpaceMouse]

Oh, no no no-no! One arm, two wires. But some of them had a smaller arm. lower with another two wires.

Which means I can't just buy them.

[Anonymous]

In 1914, I would venture that they are telegraph lines, not telephone. Used to communicate station to station to control train movement.

Andrew

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by masonjar

In 1914, I would venture that they are telegraph lines, not telephone. Used to communicate station to station to control train movement.

Andrew

I would guess both. Telephone were well established I'm pretty sure. At least Roy Rogers had one. [:D]

[eridani]

QUOTE: Originally posted by masonjar

In 1914, I would venture that they are telegraph lines, not telephone. Used to communicate station to station to control train movement.

Andrew

Actually most likely telegraph poles. Almost 20 years ago I wrote a book on the Prohibition era called King of the Mob (http://robinrowland.com/king.html) and it was interesting to note in the late teens and early twenties, that news reports of the era would actually report that the police used "the long distance telephone" --that meant it was a major case and a big story.

I also have on my office wall a reward poster for a gangster issued in 1926. No 800 numbers in those days, of course, the instructions are to telegraph the chief of police.

Robin

[Anonymous]

Chip,

Pre-WWI, telephones were not in common/widespread use, and would not be until past WWII, if you can believe it (same goes for electricity..!). However, one of the first places to get a telephone would have been the train station, so I'll give you that... [;)]

Andrew

[oleirish]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

QUOTE: Originally posted by cheese3

sounds like a cool film, so do you have a good idea of what you are going to do now?

I've had an idea for a while. I've had a good idea after finding that logging site with all the 1000's of photos. I've got the foot-print worked out with the schematic. I just have to digitally lay the track and let you guys rip on it.

Then there's still the technicality that I have to clear the basement and remodel it.

[:D][^]Chip
Could you use these guys to help build your logging railroad????


JIM

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oleirish

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

QUOTE: Originally posted by cheese3

sounds like a cool film, so do you have a good idea of what you are going to do now?

I've had an idea for a while. I've had a good idea after finding that logging site with all the 1000's of photos. I've got the foot-print worked out with the schematic. I just have to digitally lay the track and let you guys rip on it.

Then there's still the technicality that I have to clear the basement and remodel it.

[:D][^]Chip
Could you use these guys to help build your logging railroad????


JIM

OKay, they'll be telegraph lines.

Re: Ike and Mike. I'd love to have them working on my layout. But alas, the CW only had one Shay a 3-truck and the NWP only had a 3-truck and a Heisler.

Which brings me to my SECOND EUREKA:

I just obtained this morning through inter-library loan The Northwestern Pacific Railroad, The Redwood Empire Route, by Stindt and Dunscomb. That's how I knew about NWP's roster. Maybe, I'll solve the telephone/telegraph mystery.

But that means that my 2-6-0's have a home as well as Heisler have homes. The only orphans I have are a pair of 2-6-0 Camelbacks and my son's Spectrum 2-8-0 (the only loco I have with sound).

However, the CW got a 2-8-0 in the early twenties. I think I'll let him run it when he wants to.

The bulk of NWP's fleet were 4-6-0's and 4-4-0's So as of right now, I'm looking at a truck-load of Spectrum 4-6-0's and IHC's 4-4-0's (which as of right now is my best running steamer.)

[MidlandPacific]

You might want to consider the MDC Moguls and 4-4-0s - the biggest problem with the older ones was the tendency of the open-frame motor to accumulate dirt, but the can motors on the newer ones seem good. I've had good experiences with both the high and the low-drivered Spectrum 4-6-0s, so I would certainly recommend them. I'm partial to the old Alco Ma&Pa 4-4-0s, which are turn-of-the-century and pop up on Ebay every once in a while, but I've heard their mechanisms are lousy.

One other piece of advice for you: if you can find it, Tratman's book on track (I model 1913, and I'm using the 1908 edition) is an encyclopedic discussion of track, ballast, roadbed, and lineside detail (signage, bridges, and buildings). There are a lot of characteristically turn-of-the-century engineering practices (like ballasting track with earth, and heaping it over the centers of the ties) that most modeling publications don't discuss.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rripperger


You might want to consider the MDC Moguls and 4-4-0s - the biggest problem with the older ones was the tendency of the open-frame motor to accumulate dirt, but the can motors on the newer ones seem good. I've had good experiences with both the high and the low-drivered Spectrum 4-6-0s, so I would certainly recommend them. I'm partial to the old Alco Ma&Pa 4-4-0s, which are turn-of-the-century and pop up on Ebay every once in a while, but I've heard their mechanisms are lousy.

One other piece of advice for you: if you can find it, Tratman's book on track (I model 1913, and I'm using the 1908 edition) is an encyclopedic discussion of track, ballast, roadbed, and lineside detail (signage, bridges, and buildings). There are a lot of characteristically turn-of-the-century engineering practices (like ballasting track with earth, and heaping it over the centers of the ties) that most modeling publications don't discuss.

The NWP only had 3 moguls and the CW never had any. I already have 2 of the MDC Moguls. I've not seen the MDC 4-4-0's, . I also have built a 4-6-0 MDC, but that has become part of the Hogwart's Freight and Ferry that occationaly operates in Northern California. Like I said, the IHC I have is the best runner I have--runs smooth at 2 smph pulling 3 boxcars (22 sec to cover 9" section of track), but it too has joined the Hogwarts team.

What I figure I'm short, is a couple 4-6-0s and a couple 4-4-0's the larger versions. I also need at least one 0-6-0 with tender, which is what NWP used for switchers. I also need a couple 2-6-2 saddle tankers for the CW, but I'm planning to start a couple 0-6-0T MDC models and convert them. Other than that, a 3-truck Shay is needed for the CW.

I'll keep an eye out for Tratman's book on track.

[loathar]

Could you tell what color those lines were from the movie? I've seen some really old lines next to the tracks that where green. I think the color of the lines had something to do with what type of line they where.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by loathar

Could you tell what color those lines were from the movie? I've seen some really old lines next to the tracks that where green. I think the color of the lines had something to do with what type of line they where.

I'll watch it again, but I doubt it. Of course, the film was black and white and the train was moving.

But on some poles there were two sets of two wires. The first set was on top of the T of the pole. The second two were closer together and attatched to about a one foot extention (think the letter "F", but with the top still a "T". My guess is that there were two differeing functions.

You don't suppose Eureka had cable?

[MidlandPacific]

QUOTE: The NWP only had 3 moguls and the CW never had any. I already have 2 of the MDC Moguls. I've not seen the MDC 4-4-0's, . I also have built a 4-6-0 MDC, but that has become part of the Hogwart's Freight and Ferry that occationaly operates in Northern California. Like I said, the IHC I have is the best runner I have--runs smooth at 2 smph pulling 3 boxcars (22 sec to cover 9" section of track), but it too has joined the Hogwarts team.

The MDC 4-4-0s were, I think, the last steam model they introduced, and they were only out for a year or two before Horizon bought MDC. They should come out again, but they may only be RTR; for some reason there aren't many on ebay, although they do pop up once in awhile. They're good-looking models, and fairly easy to build, like most MDC engines. There aren't many on ebay, which is probably a sign that the people who bought them still like them.

You can probably use the Spectrum 3-truck Shay: it should be prototypical for post-1915 engines.

[MidlandPacific]

These might be useful:

http://search.ebay.com/4-4-0_HO-Scale_W0QQcatrefZC3QQcatrefZC6QQcoactionZcompareQQcoentrypageZsearchQQcopagenumZ1QQfclZ3QQfposZQ5AIPQ2fPostalQQfromZR2QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ2QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsacatZ19128QQsadisZ200QQsaslcZ2QQsatitleZ4Q2d4Q2d0QQsbrftogZ1QQsofocusZbs

http://cgi.ebay.com/Roundhouse-HO-4-6-0-Ten-Wheeler-Locomotive-Kit_W0QQitemZ5989032710QQcategoryZ19139QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Roundhouse-1950s-vintage-H-O-0-6-0-switcher-kit_W0QQitemZ5988756119QQcategoryZ19139QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://toys.listings.ebay.com/HO-Scale_Mantua_W0QQcatrefZC4QQcoactionZcompareQQcoentrypageZsearchQQcopagenumZ1QQfclZ3QQfromZR2QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ2QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsacatZ19137QQsocmdZListingItemList

http://cgi.ebay.com/MANTUA-electric-cast-iron-ENGINE-CAR-vintage_W0QQitemZ5989824265QQcategoryZ19137QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[SpaceMouse]

Thanks,

I've already exceeded my budget, but eBay is my primary source for older stuff.

Edit:

I guess I should have said I "watched" two of them. [:D]

[nobullchitbids]

The wires were green because they were bare wires (the copper has corroded). Bare wires commonly were used along railroad rights of way, which meant there were a lot of green wires out there!

[cjcrescent]

Chip;
For a different take on 0-6-0T's, check out bachmann's spectrum 0-6-0T. Very smooth runner. Little hard to fit a decoder in but doable.

[JimValle]

The NWP was set up for telegraphic train order dispatching and it's route through the Eel River Canyon was mostly inaccessable by any other means so the telegraph poles ran along the right of way. The Canyon walls consisted of loose soil on top of blue clay which was slippery as the devil in winter rain storms so heavy engines couldn't go there as the roadbed was too soft. All the original NWP ten wheelers were off the roster by the end of World War II except for a couple to cover the overnight passenger runs. Leased SP consolidations and mikes took over until dieselization in 1953-54 so you could use SP engines for variety. Bachman's 2-8-0 with an oil bunker tender would be right at home in the Canyon, circa 1950. Good luck modeling this road! It's going to be a challenge!

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cjcrescent

Chip;
For a different take on 0-6-0T's, check out bachmann's spectrum 0-6-0T. Very smooth runner. Little hard to fit a decoder in but doable.

I already have the MDC's so I'll see how they work. I've been eyeing the Bachman's though--heard about the decoder dificulty. I have no clue how the MDC's will be.

Jim,

I'll be modeling it in 1917, so it predates the 2-8-0. The NWP bought a bunch of the 4-6-0's and 4-4-0's early on and those are off the shelf doable.