How many of you guys follow the three foot rule?

[Anonymous]

Yesterday, while at my LHS , I almost had a cow when I saw an N scale box car at $26. I thought it was an Atlas. Thank goodness it wasn't. It was a Microtrains car. Further down the shelf was an Atlas version of the same car, paint scheme etc., for about $11. When I asked Frank why the Microtrain's car was so expensive, he said it had added detail. Great! The thing is so small, I can't notice the difference without picking it up and maybe using a magnifying glass. Usually when I am looking at a car, it is on a train rolling along my layout. So basically, if I can't see the detail from three feet away, its not worth the extra money. Three feet might not be literal, but you get the idea. So how many of you are pragmatists and how many of you feel the extra detail is worth more than twice as much money? I'm just as happy with the Atlas product. I'm not a total cheapy. I buy mostly Atlas and Kato locomotives. To me, they are worth the extra money.

[grandeman]

There's usually a point of diminishing returns in most things, MR being no different. Sounds like you've got that figured out already though.

BTW, the same can be said of an entire layout. Detail what needs to be detailed. For example, a building by the backdrop in a forced perspective scene probably isn't a wise place to spend extra time and money to super detail.

[Anonymous]

I won't usually spend the extra on a large number of cars - I might buy one or two Kadee or similar high-detail models as they look better when parked in a yard or industry spur, but my main fleet is still Athearn BB. On a yard layout like mine I can get away with a limited number of cars but for a basement empire you need to economise - the cheaper brands look great in a train rolling through the landscape and run just as well, so it makes sense to buy those.

[davekelly]

I try to follow the three foot rule, especially with structures, but I haven't been all that successful. The way it usually works is as follows. I build a structure kit. I spend quite a bit of time painting various things like window framing (a bear with the models that don't have separate window castings) and getting the mortar to look right. I agonize over the color demarcation and do it again and again until I get it as close to perfect as I can. I then place the structure on the layout and realize that at the distance it is from the viewer much of what I agonized over can't be seen. I remind myself of the three foot rule and make a mental note that I can save a bunch of time and effort on my next structure. I then start the next structure kit and you know what? I've totally forgotton the three foot rule and the whole cycle starts again.

Oh well . . . .I'm having fun!!

[orsonroy]

i follow the three foot rule, but my own version. Like Dave, I'm a detail nut, so things like doors, roofs, truck sideframes, and (especially) lettering has to be right, whether the model is RTR or scratchbuilt. But there comes a time when you have to say to yourself "enough is enough", and fini***he project. Most of my resin freight cars, for example, have only "generic" underframe detail, since it's not worth my time to root around looking for piping diagrams for each car class. That there's ANY piping down there is good enough for me.

[3railguy]

I picked out a couple $15.00 cars a couple weeks ago but noticed a newly arrived Intermountain UP CA-4 caboose for $30.00. It is a very nice caboose and hindsight wishes I had bought the caboose instead.

I think supply and demand has some to do with it. N scale has turned into sort of a collectors market. I've seen MT cars with an MSRP of $18.00 marked up to $25.00 because they are hard to get. Same goes for some Atlas cars. I've seen one dealer ask $15.00 a car and the next ask $25.00 for the same car.

Overall, I am in agreement that Atlas cars are priced better. When shopping for cars, I make a lot of comparisons determining what the cars are worth to me. Probably 75% of the cars I've bought are Atlas and the remainder Micro Trains with a few Intermountain and Athearn cars thrown in.

I hesitate to make rules when shopping. Too many times I feel I made bad choices because I stuck to a rule or had my mind closed.

[davekelly]

John,

I know where you're coming from! Just remind yourself of the "rules are made to be broken" saying. It also makes the purchase that much more fun 'cause you're doing something "naughty"!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

I try to follow the three foot rule, especially with structures, but I haven't been all that successful. The way it usually works is as follows. I build a structure kit. I spend quite a bit of time painting various things like window framing (a bear with the models that don't have separate window castings) and getting the mortar to look right. I agonize over the color demarcation and do it again and again until I get it as close to perfect as I can. I then place the structure on the layout and realize that at the distance it is from the viewer much of what I agonized over can't be seen. I remind myself of the three foot rule and make a mental note that I can save a bunch of time and effort on my next structure. I then start the next structure kit and you know what? I've totally forgotton the three foot rule and the whole cycle starts again.

Oh well . . . .I'm having fun!!

I'm the same way but I don't feel too bad about it. For one thing, my layout is fairly small and I do sometimes get real close to the structures I've built just to see the detail. It's part of the fun. Second, I figure on photographing my layout from time to time, often zooming in on particular scenes. I want each scene to look just as good for its 'close-up' as it looks from a normal viewing distance.

Bad paint demarcations can really get annoying, especially when wood gets painted like brick or vice versa.. And don't get me started about gaps in plastic structures. [:)]

[Anonymous]

I try to use the same tones of paints when building kits and buildings. I also try to be very consistent with the weathering so that the 30 or so athern BB boxcars rolling behind the J1 is a TRAIN. But there are a few high detail cars such as the Atlas Reefers gathered at the icing rack which has additional detail planned. So the people will stop and admire the work that is being done while not be too "Picky" about the trains rolling by.

[Anonymous]

I generally follow this rule, that is why I don't get too upset over things that drive the rivit counters crazy. I've built a few of the P2K and Branchline freight cars and at first made sure all the details were installed only to find some of them broken after being used for just a little while (no more cut levers and scale air lines on freight cars). I'll limit the highly detailed stuff to any dioramas I may do but for operation it's a waste of time. I also don't get too upset when I learn that somebody's cab is a scale 1 foot to short or there are 2 latches on a door when there should be 3.

Bob DeWoody

[Anonymous]

Most of my models are made for close scrutiny. I often build models for the layout and put them in a local modeling contest every year. I also often invite people to remove roofs and even move whole buildings for inspection. (They do have to prove trustworhy first) I also want to take lots of pictures, and the layout I am planning will have have broad expanses of city scape and scenery that should be well detailed through out becasue of the many possible camera angles.

James

[cefinkjr]

Never heard of the three foot rule but I hereby announce to the world that I have adopted it as my guiding creed...until I am again compelled by some inner demon to add detail where it will never be seen (like inside a boxcar). [:(]

I think I need help. Any psychiatrists out there? The only one I ever knew personally was a college professor of mine (who moonlighted at a nearby state mental hospital). But he ridiculed model railroaders in class one day and clearly thought we were a certifiable bunch of nuts. Actually, he may have had a point. [:o)] [D)]

Chuck

[fievel]

I applaud Atlas for some of their lower prices. I can get deals like $5.95 for
certain 90 ton coal hoppers. But I WILL NOT pay 32 dollars for an N scale
extended vision caboose, even if I have been waiting years for it to be released
in Conrail. (The other models were ten dollars cheaper. (?).

I have purchased several intermountain N scale covered hoppers. They are
expensive, but they run well. I've got many "cheap" cars like bachmann.
They look great from 3 feet away. Unfortunately, I will eventually have to
upgrade them, because they have Rapido couplers. More $. Sigh.

I guess you get what you pay for, but I think some prices are getting out
of hand.

[espeefoamer]

I generally folow the three foot rule.Certain companies charge almost $40.for a freight car.That is rediculous,especially when one can buy the same car with less underbody detail for around $20.Athearn BB cars sell for under $10. but with no underbody detail,which nobody sees anyway.You know it's there but even you can't see it while a train is running on the layout.I'll spend less on each car and buy more cars[:D]!

[Anonymous]

I use the 3 foot rule,but only for structures,vehicles,details and even figures,but I prefer to keep rolling stock well detailed,My only bb cars have been redetailed.

[Anonymous]

Super detailing all the way, though I could do without the extra costs. I have a tendency to take macro photos so I don't mind going the extra yard.

[davekelly]

Some of my modeling efforts have gotten me to adopt the 10 foot rule. Some have also needed the protection of the "hide it in the closet" rule.

spensak,

Yeah I have to admit I like doing the details too, even if I know no one else will ever see them - I know they are there and spending more time on each model stretches the hobby dollar big time! I also find that after spending an hour or so of quiet time painting window frames I do feel very relaxed which can't be a bad thing!

[Anonymous]

I love the details. I will spend the extra time on them, especially with rolling stock.

[SpaceMouse]

So far I'm not a follower of the 3 foot rule. What happens is I have these reading glasses that makes it so I see the screw-ups. SO I sit and work it until it's right. Then I don't get anything done.

Right now I'm feeling totally overwhelmed by it all. Maybe I should clean out my basement and get a feel for what the new layouot is going to look like.

sih!

[Anonymous]

I'm a newbie, but I find myself worrying about the details of the structures and the areas around them. I have only a small 2' X 15' switching layout.... all industry and engine service area, and I really enjoy detailing these areas to the point I'm thinking about photography.

I made a huge (for me) initial purchase for a DCC system, a few sound equiped quality engines, and quality track equipment. Now, I'm just going to get really cheap rolling stock kits, and bring them up to fine operating standards. Fine detail on them would only get broken, I think.

I hope I'm going about this in a good way.

Jim

And, Chip, if you feel "totally overwhelmed by it all," then it is no longer a hobby for you. It is the opposite of a hobby, seems to me. Are there other issues, or forces, at work?

Sit down with a beer, or a root beer if you prefer, and look at it. Maybe it is time for a major change.

A long time ago, I started going crazy with an O scale layout. I started pressuring myself to finish certain things, etc. I actually started to lose sleep over it. I then realized that I was doing it for other people, not my own enjoyment and relaxation. That's not a hobby, its a job (however enjoyable it may be).

[3railguy]

Could someone explain what the three foot rule is?

[Anonymous]

My eyes as I have aged have taken care of the "rule". Wearing my specs and using a magnifier is still part of my modeling however, and I have found that the camera or a diorama get much closer scrutiny, not to mention reveal errors or lack of attention to the details that I know should or should not be there. I think we may all "build" to our own standard, but know that the rivet counter is looking or will be right over our shoulder. I suppose we must ultimately decide when "it is good enough". Us procrastinators might want to lower the bar a little and go "do it"!!!! Bill

[Anonymous]

When I started this thread, I didn't mean that I thought all details were a waste of my time. I'm a global thinker-a big picture sort of guy. That's just my cognitive style. Some people naturally focus on every detail, almost getting lost in them. I try to add detail to some buildings. I usually paint the individual window frames. In Nscale that can be tedious. I weather all of my buildings. I always do my bricks so you can see the mortar in between. So I'm not against details. I like putting little people on the layout. All of those things I can see without looking too closely. Also in N scale, some of those little details are easily broken, even with care. While I have people and chain link fences on my layout, I'm not going to have telephone poles with simulated wires. I don't detail the inside of my passenger cars. On the other hand, I don't see why Nscale manufacturers do not put engineers in the cabs of their locos like in H.O. When I paint a deisel, I paint the window sills/trim silver. I just don't think its worth it to worry about details I won't notice. People perceive and focus on different things. As long as you are happy with what you are doing, that's all that matters.

[BurlingtonJohn]

My eyesight is such that I am a charter member of the three foot club!

Regards,
Burlington John

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by yardgoat46


And, Chip, if you feel "totally overwhelmed by it all," then it is no longer a hobby for you. It is the opposite of a hobby, seems to me. Are there other issues, or forces, at work?

There are a lot of forces at work.

See: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=41368

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by WVHagan

When I started this thread, I didn't mean that I thought all details were a waste of my time. I'm a global thinker-a big picture sort of guy. That's just my cognitive style. Some people naturally focus on every detail, almost getting lost in them. I try to add detail to some buildings. I usually paint the individual window frames. In Nscale that can be tedious. I weather all of my buildings. I always do my bricks so you can see the mortar in between. So I'm not against details. I like putting little people on the layout. All of those things I can see without looking too closely. Also in N scale, some of those little details are easily broken, even with care. While I have people and chain link fences on my layout, I'm not going to have telephone poles with simulated wires. I don't detail the inside of my passenger cars. On the other hand, I don't see why Nscale manufacturers do not put engineers in the cabs of their locos like in H.O. When I paint a deisel, I paint the window sills/trim silver. I just don't think its worth it to worry about details I won't notice. People perceive and focus on different things. As long as you are happy with what you are doing, that's all that matters.

I bought a bunch of pre-made-b-someone-else structures off of Ebay to fill in the gaps in my layout. It works in a global sense, but bother me such that every time I work on a model, I fix one that is similar so that I'm sort of muylti-tasking. Some models will simply be replaced, but are better than bare soil.

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 3railguy

Could someone explain what the three foot rule is?

If you can't see a detail at 3 feet from the model, then you don't need it.
The idea is to avoid putting more detail on the models than you're actually going to see in normal operaions on your layout.
Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

The three foot rule is the idea that if you have to get closer than 3 feet to the model to see the detail, then its not worth it. This isn't really a rule. Kind of like a guiding principle. Of course, not everyone agrees with that. Do what makes you happy. If it makes you happy to add detail that can only be seen under a microscope, then go for it. One of my good friends loves to pick up cars and look at them as closely as possible to see every detail. If I were to detail the inside of my passenger cars, he'd notice it and love it.

[3railguy]

QUOTE: If you can't see a detail at 3 feet from the model, then you don't need it.
The idea is to avoid putting more detail on the models than you're actually going to see in normal operaions on your layout.

Thanks guys, I get it now. In this case, I go by the 3 inch rule. I like to put my face up right up to the track that follows the table edge. Quite a sight.

[BRAKIE]

I use the operating rule..If you can't see the details under normal operation then why worry about the missing detail?Now if it does bother me enough,then I simply add the missing detail by using aftermarket detail part.