Alright, I gotta ask...What is DCS?

[pcarrell]

And how is it different then DCC? [%-)] [D)]

[jfugate]

Well, here's your chance, Rivet Counter.

Facts, not more hype, please.

[pcarrell]

Whatever it is, I'm sure it will take 10 years to see it in N scale! [(-D]

I just have to ask because I saw some of you discussing the wiring for it on another post. The post didn't really say what it was though.

Have I really been in that corner that long?! [:D]

[Anonymous]

DCS is a competitor for DCC. Apparently in DCS, you can actually drive trains in scale Miles per hour, whereas in DCC, you drive at say Speed setting 4.

That is only one "advantage" of DCS, apparently there are more. I'm sure others are more knowledgeable then me...........

IMHO, now that I have gotten a DCC system, it'll be very difficult for me to change over to some new system unless its compatiable with my old one.

Also, DCS has a somewhat "interesting" developement history. Both technical and political. It makes for some intriging reading............

[jwr_1986]

Be carefull mentioning DCS, those be flamin words. Just kidding.

DCS, stands for digital command system (I think), and unlike DCC (Digital command control), it is a proprietary system that only MTH has rights to. The capabilities of the systems are rather similar except that DCC tends to be a more add as yo go system. I have noticed that the systems features are geared heavily towars the tinplate frame of mind (Note I do not say Hi-rail) in that it has many toy like features and the ability to replay an operating session. Why would you want to just watch the trains? My LHS refuses to carry any DCC (or for that matter much of anything that isn't O scale) so I had to find another supplier for my Digitrax stuff.

Hope this helped somewhat.

Jesse

[Anonymous]

Does this mean that Digitrax is going to have to re-name their command stations from DCS 100 and DCS 200 to something else because MTH "invented" the use of the letters first. After all didn't Mike start DCC along with Al Gore when Al invented the internet.

[Anonymous]

From reading the handout from the train show DCS has

120 speed steps each one exactly 1 scale mile more than the last. (120 MPH is so tru to proto type. This was mentioned twice)

Trip odometer. (Now we can pay our train crews by the mile! This was mentioned twice)

Diesel Rev up/Down sound control
4 Adjustable Diesel Engine Ditch lighting effects. (Both very useful for one 4-6-2 steam locomotive avalable.)

and my personal favorite

3 Adjustable Locomotive Direction Start-Up Settings. (Forward, backward, you can figure out the third option.)

[railroadyoshi]

thnx for the clear up!

[ben10ben]

DCS has two basic components, a TIU, or track interface unit, and handheld.

The TIU is a small black box with four sets of input/output terminals. Each of these can be connected to a separate track, or "power district" in DCS nomenclature, and to its own power source. It allows two-way communication between anything equipped with a DCS board and itself.

The handheld is a remotely operated device which communicates with the TIU. It stores information about all the DCS engines you own and have run, and allows you to call them up to control them easily. Once you have done this, you dial in the speed in scale MPH increments using a little thumbwheel. You can also dial in all the other engine features using a confusing array of buttons and knobs.

DCS offers several standard features with their engines, including
Variable smoke output(if so equipped)
Directional Lighting
Cruise Control
Doppler effect
Various other special sound effects

DCS is a very complex system that's also often sensitive to wiring irregularities and other such things that would not bother a normal layout.

[Anonymous]

Okay, so if MTH is the only one producing DCS and everyone else is producing DCC, it sounds alot like The VHS/Beta story out of the 80's. And we all know what happened to Beta.........

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ben10ben
DCS is a very complex system that's also often sensitive to wiring irregularities and other such things that would not bother a normal layout.

That's a false statement. DCS is not complex and is much easier to use than TMCC and DCC.

[simon1966]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mthrules

QUOTE: Originally posted by ben10ben
DCS is a very complex system that's also often sensitive to wiring irregularities and other such things that would not bother a normal layout.

That's a false statement. DCS is not complex and is much easier to use than TMCC and DCC.

Having read the following article http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/005/906enrww.asp on the classic toy trains web site, I can not believe the apparent complexity of a DCS system. A DCC bus, with feeders for the track seems a lot simpler than the bundles of wire that seem to be required with the DCS system. I can not imagine even the most complex DCC installation on a similar (19' x 19') layout would be anything close to this.

[Paul3]

Maltese_Mike wrote:

QUOTE: DCS is a competitor for DCC. Apparently in DCS, you can actually drive trains in scale Miles per hour, whereas in DCC, you drive at say Speed setting 4

That's correct. You can find out the speed you are going with DCC by either using the F10 verbal readout (currently in QSI sound decoders) or with the display in 3rd generation bi-directional DCC (or Bi-D) that's supposedly coming soon. With DCS, AFAIK, you set the scale MPH on the throttle, and the train will match that speed. With DCC, you set the throttle setting to a percentage of the total (25%, etc.) to achieve a certain speed (which is more realistic, there's no "cruise control" on a real loco).

bukwrm wrote:

QUOTE: Trip odometer. (Now we can pay our train crews by the mile! This was mentioned twice)

This is coming soon with the aforementioned Bi-D standard from the NMRA for DCC.

QUOTE: Diesel Rev up/Down sound control

If that's what I think it is, that's been available from Soundtraxx for years for DCC. They called it "manual notching".

QUOTE: 4 Adjustable Diesel Engine Ditch lighting effects. (Both very useful for one 4-6-2 steam locomotive avalable.)

[:)] BTW, AFAIK, there's only two different kinds of effects for ditchlights, right? Either they are on all the time and do not flash when the horn is blown (like the Canadian locos) or they do flash when the horn is blown (like American locos). What else is there?

QUOTE: 3 Adjustable Locomotive Direction Start-Up Settings. (Forward, backward, you can figure out the third option.)

I believe that's the old Lionel/Amerian Flyer neutral position. Handy to have in AC O-scale, but a tad silly in HO.

ben10ben wrote:

QUOTE: DCS offers several standard features with their engines, including
Variable smoke output(if so equipped)
Directional Lighting
Cruise Control
Doppler effect
Various other special sound effects

Except for the smoke (which I would never want because it always leaves an oily residue on everything), DCC also does all of the above. Makes one wonder what the hubbub is all about, don't it?

mthrules wrote:

QUOTE: That's a false statement. DCS is not complex and is much easier to use than TMCC and DCC

Ah, I see our new resident shill is on the case. Is your name "Mike" by any chance?

I have to tell you, Mr "rules", that wiring and operating DCC can be very simple. I currently am operating a 25' x 50' HO layout with a 200' double track mainline with three to four operators. All I have under the layout is a pair of 14 AWG wires connected to 22 AWG feeders every 9 feet, plus one 6 conductor phone cable for the throttles. I have 4 throttle sockets, a radio receiver, 3 radio throttles, and a Digitrax Zephyr command station. And that's it. Can DCS do all that with only two wires and a phone line?

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[Anonymous]

I can't follow the "easier to use" argument - I've been using a Lenz DCC system for the past few months, it really doesn't get any easier to wire or operate. So long as you follow the basic rules about power busses, etc it will work faultlessly. It also has the benefit that I can use any DCC decoder or pre-equipped loco with the control gear I have. If anything DCS will complicate the situation by bringing another standard. As I said in the other related thread, I really can't see it catching on, especially outside the USA. Over here we're even headed towards a standard means of communication allowing you to mix throttles from different manufacturers - I can plug a Roco LokMaus into my Lenz Compact and it will work perfectly as a hand throttle. I also can't see DCS getting to beginners - Bachmann have the budget digital market pretty much sewn up to my mind with their E-Z Command (which would also work on X-bus in theory as it was developed by Lenz).

[Anonymous]

Mike can have my Zephyr when he pries my cold dead hands from it !

I'll choose Digitrax over MTH any day of the week !!

NMRA standard is DCC.

'nuff said !!!

[pcarrell]

It sounds to me that the benefits of DCS are minimal (the scale MPH is cool) and will more then likely be addressed by the DCC crowd in the next few years as the technology progresses.

The wiring nightmare that I saw on a DCS system not long ago is not something that I would want to tackle anytime soon either. I get enough of that at work (I work for the phone company).

I think I'll stick with VHS unless either I'm missing the point or someone can show me where DCS is far superior.

[rrinker]

From a marketing standpoint, the VHS/Beta comparison is vlaid. But don't use it on as a technical comparison. Beta was and is a superior technology to VHS, it's just that Sony idiotically wouldn't license it.

As for ditch lights - Digitrax, TCS, and NCE (and probably other) DCC decoders hae numerous qualifies for their various functions, so the possible combinations for ditch light effects likely totally more than 4. Plus these functions are not limited to be ditch lights, there are numerous OTHER effects available as well.

--Randy

[mcouvillion]

DCS stands for Distributed Control System and is marketed by the likes of Honeywell , Foxboro, and others in the process control industry. I'm not sure if it is a trademarked designation for any of the major players' control system, but the terms have been around a lot longer than Mike's Train House. Since "DCS" has been in the public domain for many years, he is unlikely to have, or be able to get, exclusive rights to its use. He may have bitten off more than he can chew this time.

Mark C.

[nblum]

"That's a false statement. DCS is not complex and is much easier to use than TMCC and DCC."

Complete and utter rubbish. Both DCC and TMCC are easier to install, more trouble-free and TMCC is much easier to use than DCS ever will be. Haven't used DCC much, but it doesn't appear as complex as DCS from what most folks say. It's certainly not anything remotely correct to say DCS is much easier to use than DCC, and it's an outright lie to say it's much easier to use than TMCC. TMCC has the additional advantage over DCS that it is a lot cheaper to get started with, widely adopted in three rail O gauge, more modular, and has 10 years field use to prove its robust nature.

DCS is absolutely great and needed if you must have PS2 locos but those are only available from MTH and no third party whizzy addons have been made available, such as those for TMCC and DCC. This proprietary nature of the DCS system is almost certainly why MTH has tried to intimidate other DCC vendors by sending them warning letters about their patents. Hence the widespread ill feeling towards MTH in the DCC industry and hobby community at this point in time, as evidenced by the many posts on the subject. MTH would do well to mend fences before trying to market DCS to HO gauge modelers, IMO.

[jnichols]

I give up.... [xx(]

So I guess the only differences between DCC and DCS are scale speed indicators and niftly sound effects???? (WOW)

These posts obviously come from people who have read stuff off the MTH website!?! No offense here, and not to sound like an official MTH glee club member, but there is considerably more to the system than that.

My suggestion would be for anyone who really wants to know more, spend some time over at the OGR forum http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x)

[jnichols]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nblum

"That's a false statement. DCS is not complex and is much easier to use than TMCC and DCC."

Complete and utter rubbish. Both DCC and TMCC are easier to install, more trouble-free and TMCC is much easier to use than DCS ever will be. Haven't used DCC much, but it doesn't appear as complex as DCS from what most folks say. It's certainly not anything remotely correct to say DCS is much easier to use than DCC, and it's an outright lie to say it's much easier to use than TMCC. TMCC has the additional advantage over DCS that it is a lot cheaper to get started with, widely adopted in three rail O gauge, more modular, and has 10 years field use to prove its robust nature.

I must be bored tonight....

So why is DCS more difficult to install? Why is TMCC is easier to use? Why is TMCC cheaper to get started with? You have made a bunch of statements here that may or may not hold up under scrutiny depending upon the modelers needs or wants. Be careful when making blanket statements about the systems as everyones situations are different. I could site many examples where none of your statements would hold water, but alas it's getting late and I've waived the MTH flag long enough, so I call a truce... [8D]

[Paul3]

mcouvillion wrote:

QUOTE: DCS stands for Distributed Control System and is marketed by the likes of Honeywell , Foxboro, and others in the process control industry. I'm not sure if it is a trademarked designation for any of the major players' control system, but the terms have been around a lot longer than Mike's Train House.

Wow, my favorite employer, the Foxboro Company, made it onto the MR forum (I was a 4th generation employee)... [:)] Cool! Now, I admit I wasn't involved in the design end at the company (I worked for both the Measurements & Instruments Div. and on the staging floor), but would this "Distributed Control System" (DCS) tag apply to both I/A and the old Spectrum line? I/A came out in the late 1980's-early 1990's after "mother" Siebe bought them out, and Spectrum was in the 1970's (which would totally pre-date good old Mike).

Of course, now the company's under some kind of dumb modern name (Invensys) which means nothing and says even less. Like Verizon, NStar, Singular, Acela, etc. Even so, the Foxboro Company was one of the few places that actually had that family atmosphere, and was a good place to work. Of course, that was almost 10 years ago now...

Paul A. Cutler III
Home of The Foxboro Company World Headquarters &
The 3-Time Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[rrinker]

Did NCE ever consider suing MTH over copying the design of their handheld? I'm pretty sure Wangrow/System 1 was out before DCS.

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

--Randy