Zephyr vs. NCE PowerCab?

[Anonymous]

I saw on Tony's Trains website that NCE is going to produce a DCC starter set in the price range of the Digitrax Zephyr. I checked NCE's website and didn't find any info on it, and Tony's doesn't have a comparison chart up yet, so I'm wondering if anyone out there knows anything about the PowerCab?

Thanks Guys.

[tstage]

Wes,

I believe the major difference between the two will be that Zephyr will be able to run more locmotives at one time than the NCE PowerCab because it has more amps:

PowerCab: 1 amp
Zephyr: 2.5 amps(?)

However, I did see that a 3 amp booster for the PowerCar was only going to be around $60. Not sure on programming capability differences though. Probably not much.

Tom

[Anonymous]

Thanks Tom, I didn't see that the PowerCab was only 1 amp. That seems kinda small to me...

Maybe the only difference is really going to be that the PowerCab is walkaround and the Zephyr isn't...anyway thanks!

[tstage]

Wes,

I wouldn't dismiss the PowerCab quite yet. $60 for a 3 amp booster plus $140 (Tony's discount) for the PowerCab still buys you a $200 4 amp DCC system. See what difference is functionality there is between the two (and other DCC systems) before pooh-poohing the idea. (Whoa! Hope Bergie doesn't come down too hard on me for that one. [:O])

Wes, one of the pluses with the Digitrax Zephyr is it's expandibility. I don't know how the NCE system comes out in that catagory. Also, if the PowerCab is truly a walkaround system, that is a nice feature in itself. Some folks have dropped more in the cost of a walk around than you'd be spending on a PowerCab alone. Spend a little more time researching the plusses and minuses...and keep up posted! [:)]

Tom

[rrinker]

A MAJOR fault of NCE here - the PowerCab does not have any way to use a computer interface! That's a huge omission, and leaves the Digitrax Zephyr as still the ONLY 'starter' system that is not feature-limited.
A true comparision requires both the PowerCab and SmartBooster - that gives you .5 amp MORE power than the Zephyr, but that's the only way the system can use additional cabs for more than one operator - something the Zephyr does right out of the box.
I guess maybe they are afraid of cutting into full system sales. Digitrax didn't seem to care that they made their 'starter' system in many ways superior to their 'mid-range' system, the Super Empire Builder. I'm still thinking Digitrax has something else up their sleeve in regards to the various sets, perhaps downmarketing the Super Chief and introducing a higher-end system to be the top tier. Only AJ and Zana know...

--Randy

[tstage]

Here's what Empire Northern Models web site had written up on the much anticipated NCE PowerCab:


(Direct link: http://www.empirenorthernmodels.com/NCE%20Page.htm)

PowerCab 1 Amp Starter System

Shown at the 2005 National Show in Cincinnati is the NCE PowerCab. This cab is nearly identical to the ProCab in appearance, but adds a 1A built in power supply. Also includes is a UTP like panel that you plug into as well as a small "Wall-Wart" transformer. This cab can be upgraded to wireless, so you can operate on a regular PH-ProR system. It will not do wireless as a stand alone unit.

This unit will be perfect for the N-Scale and Small HO layouts. When plugged into a Cab Bus type regular NCE system it will default to operating as a Standard ProCab. This leaves the panel and wall wart to be installed at you bench for testing and decoder work. All this for just a few dollars more than a regular ProCab. How can you go wrong?

Based on available data, the PowerCab will have an introductory price of $179.95. No firm dates have been announced for delivery of the system, but we are hoping for a Fall 2005 release. Get your orders reserved now, as there is sure to be a HUGE back log when these hit the street later this year!!! This price is subject to change by the manufacturer.

PowerCab 1A MSRP: $179.95 Our Price: $139.95

So, according to Tim Smith's description, the PowerCab would need to be "upgraded" in order to go wireless. As Randy pointed out, no mention of a computer interface capability. That is something to take into consideration...

Tom

[rrinker]

Yes, from what I've seen on the NCE list, you CAN upgrade the PowerCab to radio, but you can only use it with wireless if you have a full Powerhouse system. Since the PowerCab is the command station, it must ALWAYS stay plugged in. You can add the SmartBooster and add additional cabs which CAN be unplugged and moved around, but the PowerCab must always remain plugged in. It also appears that once you add the SmartBooster you can add a radio base and use wireless cabs.

--Randy

[jfugate]

With the trend to higher amp sound decoders, the PowerCab will run one or perhaps two QSI loco before pooping out. Three QSI locos will definitely overtax it.

Three amps is about right for a minimal DCC system. One amp, sorry to say, is a real "one horse" system, and is *way* underpowered for more than a glorified test track.

[ereimer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate
Three amps is about right for a minimal DCC system. One amp, sorry to say, is a real "one horse" system, and is *way* underpowered for more than a glorified test track.

agreed . i guess that's why they're making a very attractively priced 3 amp booster

unfortunatly if there is no computer interface it will be a deal breaker for me .
/rant on
is there something about reasonably priced starter systems with walkaround throttles that makes it impossible to include the possibility of a computer interface (ie mrc prodigy advance and now this) ?

grrrrrr
/rant off

[dehusman]

Maybe its the word "starter"?

If you want ALL the features they you should buy a system with ALL the features. If the starter set had all the features and all the power and all the stuff of the full size system, then they wouldn't need both a starter and a full sized system would they? The whole point of a starter system is a more functionally limited system that can "ease" you into the DCC concept but can be used when you "upgrade" to the full system.

If you want every functionality right off the bat then buy the full sized system.

Dave H.

[simon1966]

The Zephyr has been an excellent starter set for me. I have, over the last 2 years added a booster, a DT400 throttle, IR wireless receiver and some extra walk around face plates. Yesterday I purchased a UT4 throttle. With my old DC jump throttles hooked up, I can have 5 opperators running at once, although 3 is the norm (me and the 2 boys). I have also hooked the system to my PC and use Decoder pro. The point being that this was accomplished in small steps, none of which broke the bank. I would never have purchased this all at once, so a starter set that grew, fitted my needs perfectly. From what I can see, the new NCE lets a user grow as well, but in not as many baby steps.

[ereimer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

Maybe its the word "starter"?

If you want ALL the features they you should buy a system with ALL the features.
Dave H.

maybe . but the zephyr is a starter system at a very decent price and i can add a computer interface to it

[Anonymous]

Thanks guys, as always you all have been a great help.

I'm thinking that I'm still leaning toward the Zephyr. I really like the ability to use the computer interface on it, however maybe NCE will upgrade in the near future...I'm still a while out from making my purchase, so I have some time to wait and see what happens.

Even with the limitations of the PowerCab, I am happy to see more "entry level" DCC products coming to the market.

Thanks again!

[simon1966]

wes454

In the interest of full disclosure, the Zephyr out of the box does not have a computer interface. You need to purchase another piece of hardware. I use the Locobuffer II
http://www.rr-cirkits.com/LocoBuffer-II/locobuffer-II.html This has proven to be a simple to use and reliable interface between my Digitrax Loconet and an old Notebook PC running the Decoder Pro application http://jmri.sourceforge.net/

[ereimer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966

The point being that this was accomplished in small steps, none of which broke the bank. I would never have purchased this all at once, so a starter set that grew, fitted my needs perfectly.

that's exactly what i want , which is why the zephyr is still #1 on my list of DCC systems . the 2 things i really want are walk around control and a computer interface . i'm willing to buy either of them as add-ons sometime after the initial purchase as it will take some time for me to get to the point where i need those features . the only point the zephyr has against it is that it is a 'base station' throttle , which i don't really want , and probably won't use much after i get the walk-around . the new nce system has possibilities , with a walk around throttle staight out of the box , and the ability to upgrade later to get the computer interface .

i realize that i'm looking for a very specific feature set that isn't going to be easy to find in a starter system , but hey it's what I want [:D]

[Anonymous]

ereimer, I'm in the exact same boat.

I'd like to have all of the upgradability options, but want to start with a walkaround throttle - teathered is fine, in fact prefered (no batteries to change, I believe).

I wi***he Zephyr came with a walkaround throttle instead of the "base station" type throttle. The upgradability is very attractive. Very smart of them.

I was leaning towards the MRC prodigy advance, which is still a possiblity. But then my understanding is I'd never be able to program it with my laptop.

[ereimer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan


I was leaning towards the MRC prodigy advance, which is still a possiblity. But then my understanding is I'd never be able to program it with my laptop.

correct . i was very interested in the prodigy advance until i emailed mrc to ask about the possibility of a computer interface and was told there were no plans to add one. too bad really , for my purposes the PA is perfect otherwise

[simon1966]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

ereimer, I'm in the exact same boat.

I'd like to have all of the upgradability options, but want to start with a walkaround throttle - teathered is fine, in fact prefered (no batteries to change, I believe).

I wi***he Zephyr came with a walkaround throttle instead of the "base station" type throttle. The upgradability is very attractive. Very smart of them.

I was leaning towards the MRC prodigy advance, which is still a possiblity. But then my understanding is I'd never be able to program it with my laptop.

$64 bucks gets you a UT4 throttle that can plug right into the Zephyr and give you walk around. $15 gets you panels you can place around the layout. I find the Zephyr itself to be a great throttle to have by my yard, which also contains my programming track.

[jfugate]

Just for any newbies that might be reading this thread, here's the reason why a computer interface is an important feature on a DCC system:

With a computer interface, you can program decoders using your mouse to "point and click" settings.

No longer do you have to pour over decoder manuals to find out what CV does what, no longer do you have to learn binary and hexadecimal to figure out what bit setting does what. [banghead]

Instead you download and install DecoderPro (free), hook your laptop or PC to your DCC system through a cable to the DCC system's computer interface, and voila!

Rapid, intuitive, point and click decoder programming! [8D]

[Anonymous]

Gee Joe -

I wonder how I've been programming my decoders for the last couple of years without knowing Binary and Hexadecimals - or having a computer interface !!!

OR decoder books.

I DO admit to sometimes using the info sheets that come with the decoders and the small Digitrax decoder pamphlet.

But really - you make it seem FAR more difficult than it really is !!!!

[Anonymous]

Joe, are there any system requirements for programming with a computer?

Will my old Windows 98 machine work? Either that, or I'll hook my newer laptop up to the layout. Would be nice to use the old machine and just leave it in the layout room (i.e., dirty garage).

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gbailey

Gee Joe -

I wonder how I've been programming my decoders for the last couple of years without knowing Binary and Hexadecimals - or having a computer interface !!!

But really - you make it seem FAR more difficult than it really is !!!!

gb:

For basic things using mostly the decoder defaults and fleet decoders, it's fairly easy.

But if you start getting into fancy function settings for lights and sound, or do lots of custom speed curve loco tuning, your eyes will cross in a hurry -- and I program computers in my day job!

With DecoderPro, you no longer need to care what CV does what, or what binary setting does what. An occasional glance at a decoder manual to see what something means is about it.

The rest of the time, pull up the DecoderPro options and click away.

Even better, load the decoder settings from another similar decoder and you can literally have the new decoder completely custom programmed in less than 2 minutes to *exactly* the settings you meticulously set in all your other locos using that same decoder.

[jfugate]

CARRfan:

Here's what the DecoderPro support info for Windows recommends:

We have had a report that a 100MHz Pentium is too slow to use, and another that a 120MHz Pentium II is fine, so somewhere around there is the minimum machine configuration, but it's important to have enough memory. We recommend you have at least 48MB of memory for Windows 95 or 98, and 64MB of memory for Windows 2000 or later. Having 64MB or 80MB respectively would give somewhat better performance. For the more complicated programmer screens, a display with a resolution of 800x600 or larger is strongly recommended.


You need to be able to install Java on your machine, and if you go to the Sun Java site, they have versions of Java you can download for:

Platform(s):
Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows 2000 (SP4+), Windows XP (SP1 SP2), Windows 2003


So it looks like you are out of luck if you are still running Windows 95 ... you'll need at least Windows 98, and a Pentium 2 machine with 64 MB of memory or more.

[Anonymous]

Cool - sounds like my old windows 98 machine is more than qualified. Nice!

Thanks for the info.

[ereimer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966

$64 bucks gets you a UT4 throttle that can plug right into the Zephyr and give you walk around. $15 gets you panels you can place around the layout. I find the Zephyr itself to be a great throttle to have by my yard, which also contains my programming track.

that's probably what i'll end up buying unless i use the DT400 as my walk-around . the mrc and now the nce hand-held throttles have much more capability than the UT4 , which is what makes them attractive . to get the same functions with digitrax i'd have to buy the DT400 (which actually has more capability than either of the others , dang it gets hard to compare things!) . discounted it's about $150 , or the same price as the whole zephyr !

[cjcrescent]

Joe;
I have an old Toshiba laptop, running windows 95 at 60mhz with 32mB of memory that runs JMRI just fine. Granted it is slow to load and slow to read/write, but it does the job. Besides, whats "too slow"? 10 seconds?, 30 seconds? 1 minute? Plus this computer had the most important feature qualifying it for my use, it was free!! Before I retired one of the guys I worked with wife was given a new laptop at her workplace, and he couldn't use it for anything, so he asked me if I wanted it. You betcha!!!

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cjcrescent

Joe;
I have an old Toshiba laptop, running windows 95 at 60mhz with 32mB of memory that runs JMRI just fine. Granted it is slow ...

Well there ya go!

Thanks, cj!

[rrinker]

MEMORY is as big an issue if not more so than CPU speed. Java is memory hungry, so if you can throw enough memory at it, it will run reasonably well even on a slower CPU.

--Randy

[jfugate]

Randy:

Great advice. In fact, that's the way to extend the life of any slower, older PC ... max out the memory. That's generally far cheaper than a new machine, and it will give your old box a new lease on life!

[Anonymous]

I run alone, 1 train at the time, medium size layout, so, what do you prefer?: Zephyr more an UT4 trottle, the near NCE PowerCab, or the MRC Prodigy Advance? by