CLINIC ON MODEL RAILROAD PHOTOGRAPHY

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grande man
I just stumbled across something VERY important for the point and shoot camera crowd. In cropping the previously posted pic, it dawned on me to try something to improve the field of veiw. Here's a 4mp shot that the carmera was back some distance from. Then the "meat" of the pic was cropped out. Much better FOV!!! WOW! I'm stoked! You can even make out the green signal for the northbound in the distance.

Yes, and now the two edged sword of good pictures, the flaws in the models start becoming more apparent. Did you notice your cement station platform isn't totally on the ground? Must have been some heavy rain that is undercutting the foundation!

[jfugate]

First of all, Bob, thanks for the excellent forum clinic!

Electro: Let me chime in with my thoughts on a good digital camera.

I like the Canon Rebel XT digital. It's a full digital SLR camera that takes my Canon SLR lenses and gives you full control over the image just like a good SLR should. It does 8 megapixels, which is enough that MR will take your photos for publication, no problem ... and maybe even use the photo on a cover if it's a good one!

Here's a depth-of-field test shot I made when I first got the camera:


(click to enlarge)

This test photo was done using the "cheap" 18-55mm lense that comes with the camera ($50 street price for the lense). The camera has a $900 street price with the lense, which isn't bad for 8 megapixels.

If you can't afford the XT and are willing to settle for 6 .3 megapixels, you can also find the Canon Rebel Digital (previous model to the XT) on ebay for $600 or so, like this listing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=107908&item=7528178511&rd=1

[Noah Hofrichter]

Bob, thanks a lot for putting this together. You confirmed my suspicion of why I can't take good photos. My camera only goes to an F setting of F8. That's why everything in the background is always out of focus in my photos.

Noah

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by electrolove

FundyNorthern:
I have a Sony Cybershot P92 5 megapixel. It's a good camera as long there is enough light. But maybe that is the same for all cameras?

If you would recommend a good digital camera today, which one would it be?

Your camera should be quite capable of taking good photos. If you can place your camera on a tripod or other solid support, there is always enough light. The exposure might be down to several seconds, but that does not matter.

I took decent photos with my first two digital point and shoot cameras, and they had a lot less capability than yours does. My first one was an HP 1.3MP and fixed lens, the second one was also and HP, with 3.3MP and a small zoom lens. Both could shoot for several second exposures.

As to recommending a good (but fairly expensive) digital camera, I would recommend a DSLR - a Canon Digital Rebel XT, with 8MP, or a Nikon D70 with 6MP (I think).

But do some good trials with your Sony, I know you can do good with it!

Bob Boudreau

[electrolove]

FundyNorthern:

Thanks for your great clinic. I know this will help me get good train pictures in the future...

I have a Sony Cybershot P92 5 megapixel. It's a good camera as long there is enough light. But maybe that is the same for all cameras?

If you would recommend a good digital camera today, which one would it be?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grande man

Hey guys, I think I just stumbled across something VERY important for the point and shoot camera crowd. In cropping the previously posted pic, it dawned on me to try something to improve the field of veiw. Here's a 4mp shot that the carmera was back some distance from. Then the "meat" of the pic was cropped out. Much better FOV!!! WOW! I'm stoked! You can even make out the green signal for the northbound in the distance.

The closer you get by using the camera's macro capability, the less depth of field you will have. I always suggest using the lens' widest zoom position, and backing off a bit with the camera. You can always crop out stuff you don't need.

Using the telephoto end of the camera's zoom will give you even less depth of field too, so I don't recommend using it at all.

So keep in mind - wide angle without macro/close up is probably the best all round choice. Use the macro feature if you want to show a particular small area on the flat side of a model, such as the railroad logo, detail part, etc.

One thing I did not mention in my clinic is that I do a fair amount of processing of my shots in my image program (I use Paint Shop Pro 8.1). I often have to adjust the contrast, brighten or darken, crop, etc. And finally use the "unsharp mask" to add that last bit of crispness to the image. Using such programs can go a long way to improving so-so images.

Bob Boudreau

[grandeman]

Hey guys, I think I just stumbled across something VERY important for the point and shoot camera crowd. In cropping the previously posted pic, it dawned on me to try something to improve the field of veiw. Here's a 4mp shot that the carmera was back some distance from. Then the "meat" of the pic was cropped out. Much better FOV!!! WOW! I'm stoked! You can even make out the green signal for the northbound in the distance.

[twhite]

Hoo boy, do I NEED this, Bob! Thanks so much for sharing the information--between this and the instructions with the Sony (which I think are translated directly from Martian), I hopefully will start getting the hang of photography. Actually, I just discovered that my Adobe Photo Shop can do nifty things, also--but then you guys have to be patient with me, okay? I still thought you could buy Flash Powder!
Tom [:O][:O]

[grandeman]

Hey guys, THANKS FOR THE TECH INFO!!! I've learned much so far and hope to learn even more. I'm about to conclude that my camera is a handicap for MR pics. My pics have gotten better though! Here's a shot taken at 4M (resized automatically for PictureTrail when uploaded), no zoom and white balance corrected for incandescent lighting. It was cropped only, no other modifications were made from the "raw" image. It's good, but field of veiw is where it leaves me wanting.



Here's a tougher shot. Field of veiw is improved with no zoom though! It was taken on "VGA" or email size and , obviously, isn't hi res.

[BRAKIE]

My camera is a HP M305 and is 3.1MP,9x zoom and 3x optical zoom @ 6.0mm-18.0mm and takes sharp pictures.Its basically point and shoot with several different setting including "Mirco" which is great for taking model pictures...It also has a "Action" sitting that is excellent for moving trains and other moving objects.
This camera is a solid all round camera and sells for less then $140.00 at Wal-Mart..
The reason I mention this is for those of us that has a budget for our toys.[;)][:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

Bob

What ever happened to the 'pin hole' school of model photography?, and what might a digital equivalent be?

A DSLR with a wide angle lens and a pinhole aperture I guess. I can use my 35mm film camera's 28mm wide angle lens with it's pinhole aperture on my digital camera, but it's nto quite the same. Since the digital camera's imaging sensor is about 60% the size of 35mm film, the digital camera only sees the center 60% of the lens' field of view. This is roughly the view of a 55mm lens, and is not a wide angle view. Wide angle lenses give the best apparent depth of focus. So there isn't any real advantage to using this pinhole lens on the digital.

The digital camera's 18-55mm lens at its widest (18mm) gives a view equal to that of a 28mm lens on a film camera, and this is my choice for many of my model photos, using its f/22 aperture.

Bob Boudreau

[Don Gibson]

Bob

What ever happened to the 'pin hole' school of model photography?, and what might a digital equivalent be?

[Anonymous]

EDIT: OOPS! didnt see your post zephyr! i guess you cant go wrong now, theres just too much info to miss anything [:I][:I]


thanx fundy for a great tut on using a camera. im an avid photographer and i was also thinking about posting something like this, but never got around to it. its good to see so many people here so willing to help out. killer analogy with the water pipe! i wish someone explained it to me that way when i was getting started.

Grande man,
to augment Bob's explanation of using aperture to control depth of field, only because i had such a hard time with understanding it when i started out, when you set a larger aperture, which would be anywhere from f2.8-f4, it will give you less depth of field, or less of the picture actually in focus. in most of your pictures ive seen it looks like you use a larger aperture, which is why the pics get blurry the farther away the object is from the camera. if you want more of the picture in focus, you will have to use a smaller apertue, as Bob said above, but that will also require a longer shutter speed, because of the smaller amount of light getting thru the lens. this of course will mandate the use of a tripod to keep everything sharp.

and also one thing to keep in mind is that if you are using a zoom lens, regardless of being on a digital, film, point and shoot, or SLR camera, when you zoom, it will decrease your minimum aperture, i think with most 3x zoom lenses on digital point and shoots, when fully zoomed to 3x, will decreas the minimum aperture to about f4, so you will lose that short depth of field, and your exposure will have to be slightly longer.

And one more thing about digital zoom.
as Bob said above, all digital zoom does is enlarge the center area of your image, and on a lower quality image (3 megapixel or lower) it will leave you with a grainy, pixellated image. but if you really need to, and you have a decent camera (4 megapixel +), you can get away with a small amount of zooming without losing alot of quality in the image, assuming you are using your high quality settings!

ok thats it for my ramblings[8D]

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grande man
Guys, I'm hoping to upgrade my camera one of these days (may be a while). My understanding is that small aperture, long exposure time is the ticket for improved field of veiw.

Small aperture and long exposure time is the ticket for improved depth of field. Wide angle lenses give a greater field of view.

QUOTE:
Can someone explain all the tech lingo on aperture size and exposure time to me?

Whew, the stuff books are written of.

Basically a camera is a light proof box. It holds the photosensitive material (film or digital sensor) in a fixed position. The light is allowed in through the lens and controlled by the aperature, the shutter speed. The amount of light desired to get a proper exposure is controlled by the sensitivity of the film or sensor. That sensitivity is rated in ASA or ISO. A high ASA or ISO rating is more sensitive. The higher the sensitivity the less vibrant and more grainy (especially with real film) the image will be.

Aperture size is measured in f-stops. A "stop" is a change in the exposure by a factor of 2. The f is a ratio of the amout of light that gets through the lense to the sensor. So the aperature is basically a variable "hole" the light has to get through. The smaller the hole the higher the f value. Because people usually want the most amount of light available lenses will carry the largest aperature in its rating. For example 50mm 1.2f is a very bright (and expensive) lense becaue almost all the light is getting through. A perfect lense would have an f1 meaning all the light gets through. For model railroading we want depth of field so a high f stop is desireable.

Exposure is the duration of time the light is allowed to hit the sensor. Exposure is controlled by the shutter so is generally synonymous with shutter speed. The shutter is basically a door that is opened and closed allowing light to pass. The time it is kept open is measured in fractions of sections. The higher the fraction (shutter speed) the shorter the exposure. High shutter speeds freeze action. Slow shutter speeds blur.

A proper exposure is the result of the combination of these three things. ASA, f-stop, and shutter speed. A proper exposure can be made by low f-stop and high shutter speed, or higher f-stop and lower shutter speed.

Taken to extremes this can be very helpful. The other day I took a "snap shot" of the UP844 (1/250, f5.6, ASA 100) . It looked OK but had bunches of people milling about it. I wanted to cut out the people so I put a 4x neutral black filter on, bumped it to f32 and let the shutter speed go automatic. It took a few minutes to get an exposure. Since the people were moving during that time none of them showed up. Great picture of the locomotive all by itself. Plus the smoke and steam was much more "fuzzy" giving it a great effect.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Can someone explain all the tech lingo on aperture size and exposure time to me? That would be a big help.

Smaller apertures give greater depth of focus. Aperture and exposure time (shutter speed) are linked together. Make the aperture smaller, and the exposure time has to be longer to allow in more light.

Think of a water pipe as an analogy: If a one inch diameter pipe will need one second to fill a bucket, then a half inch diameter pipe will need four seconds to fill the same bucket. A one inch hole is four times larger than a half inch one; think about it.

Similarly a quarter inch pipe will take four times longer than a half inch pipe - 16 seconds.

Clear as mud? Hope so! This is the way aperture and shutter speeds work - increase one, decrease the other. Decrease one, increase the other. Each lens opening (aperture) number is one quarter the size of the previous higher one.

This shouldn't reall be a great concern, as most modern cameras will do the figuring for you.

The big problem with most point and shoot digital cameras is their aperture will only stop down to around f/8. You need f/16 or f/22 for maximum depth of focus. Usually these smaller apertures can only be achieved with DSLR cameras - Digital Slingle Lens Reflex models. These come with removable lenses and are of course in the expensive line. My Canon Digital Rebel is such a DSLR, as is the Nikon D70.

Ask away!

Bob Boudreau

[grandeman]

Guys, I'm hoping to upgrade my camera one of these days (may be a while). My understanding is that small aperture, long exposure time is the ticket for improved field of veiw. Can someone explain all the tech lingo on aperture size and exposure time to me? That would be a big help.

[grandeman]

Wow! Thanks Fundy. I'm signed up for classes on this clinic...

The biggest complaint with my Sony point and shoot is a lack of depth of field.

One thing I'd add is to go for a prototypical shot angle. We look up most of the time at real trains. Our models look more realistic when photographed at the same angles.

I'll be keeping tabs on this thread for more tips. Digital pics and the web add so very much to our hobby. They expose our railroads to many folks who would not have seen and enjoyed them otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Here's something I've put together to hopefully help those new to model photography.

Please feel free to pose questions on anything that is not clear!.

Bob Boudreau

=========================================================

CLINIC ON MODEL RAILROAD PHOTOGRAPHY – Directed towards digital cameras.

THE BASICS – Using the camera properly

1. RTFM! RTFM! - Read the Friggin Manual! [:D] Yes there is a lot of information in most camera manuals for all kinds of photography. Manufacturers want you to make the most out of your camera and usually include way more information than the average user might ever use. Whenever you have a question or problem, check the manual first. You will not be able to absorb all of the info in the manual and probably will not need much of it, but you should have an idea of the camera’s capabilities by reading the manual.

2. TURN OFF THE FLASH. [tdn] Unless you want only “snapshots” to show a model or scene quickly. Any camera that I’ve seen has this option.

3. LIGHTING - Provide lighting on the scene in any other method - existing room lights, work lights, lights on extension cords, desk lamps, daylight from a window, etc. The more light you can place on the scene the better.

4. USE A TRIPOD. If you turn off the flash, the shutter will have to stay open for a relatively long time. During this time ANY camera movement will make the image blurry. With film cameras the idea has always been to have a good sturdy tripod, because film cameras are usually heavy. Most digital cameras are small and light, so can get by with lighter tripods, although heavier ones can be the best choice. Flimsy tripods can vibrate if the shutter is pushed too hard.

5. USE THE CAMERA SELF-TIMER. Most cameras have a self-timer; use it when taking photos even if the camera is on a tripod. Pressing the shutter button can sometimes cause minute vibrations or movement of the camera, resulting in blurry photos. Some cameras have infrared remotes or the ability to accept remote control cords. These are better than using the self-timer as they take less time to trip the shutter.

6. Set the COLOR BALANCE in the camera for the type of light you are using. Better cameras will allow you to choose between daylight, fluorescent, incandescent, etc. Improper color balance can be corrected in the computer after shooting if you have a decent graphics program.

7. CLOSE UP SETTING – Most digital cameras have a close up setting; it is often shown as a flower icon on the camera body or screen. You should know what the distance range is in this mode; check the manual. Some will focus down to a few inches, others may be farther back. Most overall model railroad photos may not require the close up setting unless you want to get in really close like in the front of an engine, or a shot of a particular detail. For a small scene you will probably be shooting about two feet or so away, so the close up mode will probably not be needed too much. There are so many differences between camera capabilities that it is best to make some tests yourself to determine when the close up setting will be useful.

8. QUALITY SETTING – Always use the highest quality image setting on your camera, for the largest file size. You can always make a larger file smaller, but you cannot make a smaller one larger.

9. ZOOM LENS – Most digital cameras come with zoom lenses. The “optical zoom” is when the lens actually moves in or out to change the size of the image. Many can also do a “digital zoom “ – do not use this for any purpose! All a digital zoom feature does is take the image at the long end of your optical zoom and cut out the center portion, resulting in a poor quality image. You can do the same by cropping an image taken at the long end of the optical zoom. You will get the most depth of focus when using the lens at the widest setting. The more you zoom in, the smaller the depth of focus becomes.

10. BRIGHTEN THE SHADOWS – If parts of the model or scene are in deep shadow, there will be nothing to see in the dark areas. Reflect light into the shadows to brighten it up. I made a reflector from two pieces of sturdy white cardboard hinged together with duct tape; this allows the reflector to stand on its own. One side was covered with aluminum foil that I had crumpled up first then flattened before gluing on. This breaks up the reflections so they do not look like a single point of light from a mirror. When less light is needed, I use the plain white side. Make sure when you lighten the shadows that you do not overdo it – there should not be two sources of light.

11. TEST PHOTOS – It is a good idea to shoot some test photos with your camera using the above tips, to help judge its capability. Most point and shoot digital cameras will not have a great depth of focus, so test photos taken on your actual layout will help. If you want to take a photo of your favorite engine, a popular ¾ view of the model may not have the entire engine in focus. Reducing the angle of view towards a side on shot may result in more of the model being in focus.