August MR

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Don't mean to rain on anybodys "Atta boy MR" parade but,one good article doesn't make a excellant magazine..How much "fluff"is in it?

What's fluff mean?

I've seen other postings on here that the trend to photo essays is fluff -- give us the good old days of the text heavy articles, they say.

Well I for one applaud MR's trend away from lots of *gray* pages of text toward more photos. Just don't make the captions too brief or the photos too large. Give me medium sized photos (so I can get more different photos) and some meat. And if they provide some meat in the captions, then I'm all for a more visual magazine.

I've also seen concerns about the younger generation getting interested in the hobby ... hey guess what, it's pretty well known that with TV, video games, and so on, that the younger generation is way more visual than us old kodgers. And hey, guess what -- MR's becoming more visual in its presentation. Gee, maybe they do pay attention to the trends in the population ... [;)]

I too like the ads. So I don't see much fluff in MR ... don't know what magazine you're reading. I've been in the hobby for nearly 40 years and I still find things in each issue of MR that are useful -- sure some issues are better than others, but very few are ever a total loss.

[davekelly]

[#ditto]

[Anonymous]

Visually, the magazine is appealing as heck. If you pick up an MR, then pick up just about any other MRR'ing magazine, it's like looking at an HDTV vs. your grandfather's black and white TV.

What makes me slightly uncomfortable is there is less information on how to get a layout to that level than there was in the past.

But eye-candy wise, the magazine is incredible.

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan


What makes me slightly uncomfortable is there is less information on how to get a layout to that level than there was in the past.

But eye-candy wise, the magazine is incredible.

CARRfan:

I'm just curious, is this info missing only in this issue, or are you thinking the magazine in general doesn't cover this topic like it should?

For instance, with this issue, they are kicking off another project railroad. Don't you think a project railroad shows you how to get from here to there with a layout?

Or are you thinking of something else that's missing?

I'm interested because as a producer of model RR how-to videos, maybe I can address this need ...

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately, I don't have the new issue yet.

In the early 90's - the last time I was reading the magazine heavily, there seemed to be a lot more diesel detailing projects, paint shop, 3-view drawings of locomotives, etc.

I haven't seen much of that stuff the past year or so that I've been buying the magazine again.

But the presentation level is definately up a few notches. It feels like a first class publication.

I'm not personally too bothered by not having a lot of the detailed stuff in there now, because I have a library of old saved articles to draw from. But I bet people who are picking up the mag now for the first time have a different perception of the hobby than I had 15 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Too bad I didn't get mine :-( When is it coming out in our local hobbystores? Oh well!

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Don't mean to rain on anybodys "Atta boy MR" parade but,one good article doesn't make a excellant magazine..How much "fluff"is in it?

What's fluff mean?

I've seen other postings on here that the trend to photo essays is fluff -- give us the good old days of the text heavy articles, they say.

Well I for one applaud MR's trend away from lots of *gray* pages of text toward more photos. Just don't make the captions too brief or the photos too large. Give me medium sized photos (so I can get more different photos) and some meat. And if they provide some meat in the captions, then I'm all for a more visual magazine.

I've also seen concerns about the younger generation getting interested in the hobby ... hey guess what, it's pretty well known that with TV, video games, and so on, that the younger generation is way more visual than us old kodgers. And hey, guess what -- MR's becoming more visual in its presentation. Gee, maybe they do pay attention to the trends in the population ... [;)]

Joe - As someone who's long been in the hobby and the owner of a nearly complete library of MRs to refer to, I contend that this idea of fluff (curtailed info or captions that convey no real information) and illustrations replacing hard, explanatory text, does not work well for the average person. While illustrations may greatly assist text in explaining a given modelling process, pictures alone are of little help if the reader doesn't have the basic understanding what is being done. Too often in the heavily illustrated hobby magazines today we see "step 1, step 2, magic occurs, step 4". Little wonder that even "shake the box" kits are becoming too complex for some newbie hobbyists.

Yes, we have become an almost totally "visual" generation. But at the same time virtually all text offerings have been "dumbed down" to reach a general populace too lazy to care about a detailed account of a given process. For a great many individuals you can run an instructional video over and over and they just won't get the concept of what is being demonstrated (just ask some new owner of a lawn tractor, water softener, steel garden building kit, et al.) because they fail to understand the basic concepts usually covered in a more detailed text explanation. Likewise, the complete recall of a demonstration flashed across a TV screen in seconds is often hard to carry to the workbench and if a crucial step is dropped out, there can be hell to pay.

While man may be a visual animal, it has been largely through other means of communication (particularly reading) that great advancements in technology and understanding have been made.

CNJ831

[jfugate]

CNJ:

Interesting comments ...

In my day job (computer and internet programming), I am often called upon to train developers. As a result, I've been trained in how to teach adults, how adults learn, and so on.

Modern adults rely on some combination of 4 basic methods to learn:

Lecture/theory: Tell me all about how it is supposed to work, and don't leave out any details. This sort of person wants to read all the game rules cover-to-cover before they start to play a new game.

Active experimentation: Let me try it first -- I only need to know the theory behind it if I get stuck. This sort of person wants to get out the game board and the pieces, fiddle around with them, and see if they can infer how the game works before consulting the rules.

Watching others: Let me watch some else try it first, so I can see how it works. Then I might try it. This sort of person learns best if they can sit next to an active experimentor after he's figured out some of the game mechanics, but they may get impatient just watching the active experimentor fiddle while trying to learn.

Hearing others: Let someone who knows how it's done tell me the right way to do it. This sort of person learns best from someone who has played the game before and can tell them quickly how it's done, what the clever tricks are, and so on. No theorizing or pouring over pages of rules, no fiddling around trying to figure it out, let's just get to the bottom line from someone who knows what they are talking about.

We all mix and match these various modes of learning, but we each tend to prefer one mode over all the others as our personal *best* method.

It's also true that we tend to think *everyone else* prefers the method we like best, and all other methods of learning are inferior to our preferred method.

The truth is, each of these methods of learning have advantages and disadvantages. The best classes and instructors try to provide learning opportunities that embrace each of these methods of learning.

Also, 75% of the current population prefers active experimentation or watching/listening to others demonstrate the methods. Done right, the video medium can reach this group and help them learn a subject thoroughly.

Only 25% are in the lecture/theory group, and would just as soon read about it as watch it being taught. If the video content includes a text supplement as well, then you can approach 100% effectiveness in your teaching, reaching all learning styles.

[Anonymous]

I think each with each issue of MR, if something doesn't really appeal to you.we sometimes feel there's not enough good stuff in that issue. Everyone of us has a particular niche about the hobby that attracts him,when we fail to see it, the issue seemed bland,not every at bat is a hit. At least there were less ATTA'BOY letters in RPO.

[jfugate]

One other quick point on my last post ...

A text only magazine tends to reach about 50 % of the learning styles mentioned above (letcture/theory, and hearing from an expert). It tends to leave the active experimentors and watchers in the cold.

Add photos and you will pull in the watchers too.

But the active experimentors will prefer video over the printed page every time, since they can vicariously actively experiment through what they see on the screen.

Incidentally, there are tests that evaluate your preferred learning style, and mine is active experimentation, so if I have the choice between video or printed page, I'll take the video every time. But the step-by-step photos in the magazine help make it more interesting than it otherwise might be.

We each have a fallback method, too, and mine is lecture/theory. So if I can't figure out the game by dinking around with it, I'll read the rules cover to cover. It explains why I have a complete collection of MR back to 1960. [:D]

And why I'm so into producing how-to videos for the hobby. [;)]

[BRAKIE]

Well MR is on a down hill slide and has been for the last ten years..The July issue is the issue that broke the camels back..I will no long buy such a fluffy magazine.As far as ads well I found the computer to be faster on real information on new products since MR has a 3 month lead before the product appears in print.
How sad! At one time I could not wait on the next issue now I have dropped it just like I have Truck-er ah Trains Magazine rather..I will buy RMC since it has more bang for the buck..I will continue to buy Classic Trains.


Joe,I been in this hobby for 54 years.

[jfugate]

So Brakie, you're saying the internet has killed the value of MR for you?

You're saying you can google and learn more current information than you can get from MR's ads?

Your reference to RMC seems to indicate you prefer meaty text-heavy construction articles, which they have more of than MR does these days.

[West Coast S]

I'm waiting for it to arrive at the PX. Not to fret, my S guage publications have yet to arrive as well, besides the wife will hide them until them until the weekend honey do list is completed..

Dave

[Anonymous]

I am going to have to agree with Brakie, RMC seems to still be angled towards the "craftsman" style where MR seems to just want to show us how great a model railroad can look, without actually telling how it got there. Take the weathering articles of late, they show a brush swish, say to use chalk, but not quite all the way.

Maybe I am more of the details and text person and my slant is more biased. But RMC does have more text, the layout is not as polished as MR, which maybe is less imtimadating (sp)

I did receive the new video series they seem to be coming out with in the mail just yesterday, sort of a magizine in video format. The background scenery section was pretty detailed, Lund showed step by step how to achieve the look, the water/waves section was what I have been waiting for to understand how they lay the first coat.

As for the past issues of MR, I have been picking them up at train shows for like a 25¢ each and they are loaded with more articles, more instructions (almost like they are teaching as they are learning?) and much more indepth for the article they are on.

Just my 2¢, and yes MR is a very polished mag and is worth the $$ but is still lacking from what they did in the past.

[jfugate]

dt:

Which video is that? Is it the new Building a Model RR video (WGH) or is it the classic airbushing and scenery VHS videos put to DVD?

[joseph2]

After MR done away with the schedule of events I switched to RMC.If MR doesn't want to have news I might as well buy used copies of it at 50 cents an issue.

[Anonymous]

Not sure what it's all about, but it is called Dream•Plan•Build Video Series (Layouts, Modeling Tips & Protoype RailRoads)

They send it and let you preview the DVD, if you like it, send 9.95 in, they will send out another one some time in the future, if you don't send it back, sort of like the Columbia House Record Club?

It is almost like a video magizine, only without the ads and product reviews.

The Video has some layout tours, interviews with George Sellios, Tonny Lash's O Gauge, doing a layout at night, airbrushing, doing a background, some stuff on speeders etc. It was pretty good and for the 9 bucks I may keep the first one. The leetr stated I was selected as a special subscriber (blah, blah, blah) and HEY I got a medallion to keep [8D]

I would like to see some stuff on weathering, detailing track, how to make a realist road and stuff, the things that make a layout come to life.

I am suprised I haven't seen others posting about this yet, I did make a post yesterday about it but no-one replied. Maybe I am a special subscriber [:I]

[jfugate]

dt:

Is this video something from MR/Kalmbach, or a third party?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

dt:

Is this video something from MR/Kalmbach, or a third party?

MR

[JohnT14808]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman

They send it and let you preview the DVD, if you like it, send 9.95 in, they will send out another one some time in the future, if you don't send it back, sort of like the Columbia House Record Club?

I am suprised I haven't seen others posting about this yet, I did make a post yesterday about it but no-one replied. Maybe I am a special subscriber [:I]

Boy....any idea about how to get on this mailing list??

[tcf511]

I'm relatively new to model railroading so I can't compare past issues but I look forward to my MR every month. I agree that sometimes more how to text in articles would be useful but I especially like the detail photos for getting ideas on detailing my own layout. I also read most of the ads and new product announcements.

I suspect that the "fluff" is mostly editing. I dare say many of the modelers that submit articles supply much more detail than makes the magazine. I wonder if there is some kind of win-win available. Publi***he articles generally along the current content lines but make additional detail available online at their website for those who are interested.

[Anonymous]

gee i kinda thought it was good issue. Let me check my 'fluff' detector....

[n2mopac]

Mine just arrived today (I suppose the 4th holiday slowed it down. You know, its such a big mail holiday. Ha!). I will chime in with my 2 cents worth tomorrow.

Ron

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JohnT14808

QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman

They send it and let you preview the DVD, if you like it, send 9.95 in, they will send out another one some time in the future, if you don't send it back, sort of like the Columbia House Record Club?

I am suprised I haven't seen others posting about this yet, I did make a post yesterday about it but no-one replied. Maybe I am a special subscriber [:I]

Boy....any idea about how to get on this mailing list??

I subscribed to MR/Trains and Classic Trains. Maybe they feel I am a sucker for more subscriptions??

[BRAKIE]

Originally posted by jfugate[/i]
So Brakie, you're saying the internet has killed the value of MR for you?

Not only that but the same old articles every 2-3 years.Come on now how many times do they need to tell us how to clean track? Or how great DCC is? Joe,MR waste a lot of space on repeat articles.

You're saying you can google and learn more current information than you can get from MR's ads?

Well,not google..I saw a locomotive advertised in the February issue..I checked the hobby shop's web page..Guess what?It was out of stock.Now I just check my 3 favorite on line hobby shops and the manufacturers web pages..

Your reference to RMC seems to indicate you prefer meaty text-heavy construction articles, which they have more of than MR does these days.

Well MRC is better then MR in the craftsman articles but,Model Railroading out classes both MRC and MR as far as useful articles..Sadly that is a hard magazine to find here in town..
MR needs to improve its format plain and simple.

Joe,I am sorry buddy but,I just can't cheer MR when it been going down hill over the last 10 years.Shoot Great Model Railroads and the layout planing issue is far better then MR..BTW..Out of last years 12 issues I found 5 that was keepers and those are the ones I bought..So sad..[:(]

[Anonymous]

Interesting point about cleaning track, etc.

Something to think about - I'm not making a suggestion or anything, but after you've seen the "basics" enough times, maybe the eye candy is good enough?

For example, I've been reading a drumming magazine for years and years. When I was younger, all of the "techniques", etc. were extremely interesting. As I got older and my playing improved, what I found most interesting was just the interviews.

Similarly, in Model railroading, maybe after you've seen how to lay track 50 times, all you really want to see is the "art" someone else created.

Just some random thoughts.

Above I mentioned there not being a lot of superdetailing articles, etc. anymore.

But truth be told, I look forward to GMR like 6 months in advance.

Maybe MR knows some of us better than we know ourselves???

[jfugate]

CARRfan and Brakie:

Yes, good points. And Brakie, glad you can find something in the hobby that supplies your informational needs, even if MR doesn't do it for you.

Like CARRfan, I enjoy the eye candy more since a lot of the material is old hat to me. The other thing I watch for is new techniques to save time or money, make things easier, use updated materials, and so on.

Hardly an issue goes by that I don't get some handy technique tidbit from it. It's usually just some little thing, but combine that with the ads, the eye candy, and I'm a happy guy -- and feel like I got my money's worth for the month. And over the months, the tidbits build up into quite a body of material that I would miss out on if I didn't keep up month by month.

In the early days, I devoured each issue of MR, reading it from cover to cover several times. These days, I cherry pick, enjoy the photo essays, and peruse the magazine ads looking for the latest direction in the hobby that may involve something I can use.

Finally, I just plain enjoy keeping my finger on the pulse of the hobby. And MR's a great place to do that. [:D]

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

Interesting point about cleaning track, etc.

Something to think about - I'm not making a suggestion or anything, but after you've seen the "basics" enough times, maybe the eye candy is good enough?

For example, I've been reading a drumming magazine for years and years. When I was younger, all of the "techniques", etc. were extremely interesting. As I got older and my playing improved, what I found most interesting was just the interviews.

Similarly, in Model railroading, maybe after you've seen how to lay track 50 times, all you really want to see is the "art" someone else created.

Just some random thoughts.

Above I mentioned there not being a lot of superdetailing articles, etc. anymore.

But truth be told, I look forward to GMR like 6 months in advance.

Maybe MR knows some of us better than we know ourselves???

And then again, maybe not! MR's circulation has declined steadily for a full decade now. Something like 50,000 former readers (20% of the total circulation) have decided that MR just doesn't have what it takes any more. And since the purchase price was coming out of their pockets, it looks to me that it's the readership that knows what it wants a whole lot better than the magazine's folks apparently do!

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831
[And then again, maybe not! MR's circulation has declined steadily for a full decade now. Something like 50,000 former readers (20% of the total circulation) have decided that MR just doesn't have what it takes any more. And since the purchase price was coming out of their pockets, it looks to me that it's the readership that knows what it wants a whole lot better than the magazine's folks apparently do!
CNJ831

There was quite a discussion on the Atlas Forum recently about the decline in magazine subscriptions. One poster had info on all of the model railroad magazines and others - they've all lost sales in the past while. These include MR, RMC, RMJ, MRG, etc.

This fact was brought home to me just recently when I got a check from Model Railroading (MRG) for an article I had in their March 2005 issue. I haven't made any submissions for several years, and used to get paid $80.00 per page. For this current acceptance, all they paid was $60.00 a page. When I inquired why the drop in payment, I was told because of the drop in readership. I think it was shown on the Atlas Forum their circulation dropped from under 20K to around 10K today.

Wonder if MR still pays what they used to?

So it appears there is an overall drop in many magazine's readership, probably due to the Internet. Everyone who follows hobby forums knows all about new releases way before they appear in print. Magazines used to have a three month lead time - anything in the current issue was prepared three months before. This is ages in the world of computing and the Internet. At one time magazines were probably the main source for modelers' news, now they are secondary.

Bob Boudreau

Bob Boudreau

[Anonymous]

It's true above about finding out new stuff online before it hits print. My online hobby shops keep me informed

slackstafford