Advice for a beginner?

[Anonymous]

Hi,
i have just recently rediscovered an interest in model railoading and dug up my dads old HO trains and track...also found two kalmbach books, scenery for model railroading and the practical guide to HO model railroading. Im thinking about putting together a layout on maybe an 4x8 plywood board, with a simple track layout, (oval with a few spurs/staging tracks and some simple screen/plaster scenery, and am wondering if there is advice to give to someone who knows nearly nothing of the workings of a railroad, or model railroad for that matter, like what to or not to buy, is 4x8 too big for a beginning project, and so on...sorry for the broad question, but i know almost nothing about all this so any help is greatly appreciated[:)].

[Rotorranch]

Welcome back to the hobby! [:)]

4x8 is a great place to start! There are plenty of great track plans for 4x8 layouts, and they will fit in limited space. If you decide to expand, it's easy to add more benchwork to your basic 4x8 to expand as large as you wish. I'd guess most of us started with 4x8's!

The most imprtant thing is JUST HAVE FUN! You'll enjoy building you "Own Little Empire" and running your trains!

Sounds like you're on the right track!

Rotor

[Anonymous]

great thanx much....i like a forum where people actually reply....its nice!!!

now, my problem is where im going to put this 4x8....sooo little space around here...

[selector]

Welcome HOme. (Well, I though it was cute.)

You sound very much like someone who has already done some serious thinking about this, and some good reading, too. I'm not sure what to say to you in reply, except that your notion of starting conservatively, and learning as you go is what most on this forum would suggest. By all means, a carefully considered, well and patiently crafted 4X8 should be an interesting, rewarding, and durable return to the HObby (..I gotta get some help!)

For what it's worth, I had zero experience and no practical, or manual, skills on which to call when I began my layout in mid-January. Seven weeks later, I came up for air and had a pretty darned decent layout to play with. I did forget staging track, but everything else is not half-bad. Oh, and I would not use EZ-track again, but I say that having integrated some of the superior Flex-Track into the EZ-Track, so I now appreciate its qualities.

If you'd care to, why not describe your proposed layout, or post a picture of it for some of us who might be interested in critiquing it for you. We do that for all newcomers so that they don't make the most annoying and frequently made goofs that relegate an otherwise decent layout to the fair-to-poor heap.

[tstage]

Kombatkarl, welcome to the forum! Good to have you aboard! [:)]

Actually, a 4 x8' size makes a fine first layout. Even on a small layout, you can have quite a bit of operational interest. It's always good to think of your first layout as a learning opportunity for your next creation. Keep the first one simple and don't try make it too complicated. Learn, learn, learn. Think about what kind of industries and facilities you'd like to have and look for and purchase those models and start putting them together.

Do you need a power pack? MRC is your best manufacturer of power supplies. Do you want to go DC or DCC? If you're leaning toward DCC then NOW is the time to start - before wiring and purchasing locomotives.

There's are an infinite number of ways for you to go with our layout. Kalmbach has a number of good referenece books available that cover a wide variety of topics: benchwork, wiring, scenery, locomotive facilities, DCC, basic trackwork, trackplans, maintenance & repair - the list goes on. These will always be handy to have as reference material.

Also, poke around on other MRRing sites and layouts and make observations of what you like and don't like. Sorry this is somewhat general. There's so much to say but not enough time and space to write it all.

Hope this helps...

Tom

[Anonymous]

I know I started with a 4x8. Its about the smallest area that you can build a real layout in HO scale. When you start buying engines and cars i suggest athearn. The Older athearns in the blue boxes are cheap and pretty much indestructable. They have a rather loud driveline though and the detail has much to be improved upon. Theyre great for begginer engines though. The athearn RTR line is great. I love them. about 2 times the price of a blue box but well worth it. Great detail, run great and all that. Of course that is if you want diesel. If you want steam engines I would go IHC.In my opinion you might as well jump right in with DCC. The bachmann outfit is a good place to start but it is very limited in its capabilities. If you stick with the hobby you will want to upgrade. Stay away from the MRC DCC systems. Theyre power packs are great but the DCC (yes even the prodigy advance) leave much to be desired. I prefer Digitrax but everyone has thier opinion. For decoders, Go TCS. They offer all kinds of decoders and if you break one. Send it back and they will replace it no questions asked. I think they call it a "goof proof" warranty. But above all, have fun! Its a hobby, dont make it a job. Id like to see some pictures as you progress.

[Rotorranch]

As mentioned, if you can afford it, I'd definitely go DCC from the start! It really simplifies wiring and operation, ( no blocks to wire or control ) and you can now get most any motive power either DCC ready or DCC equipped!

I wish DCC was around when I started...I'd spend lots less time retrofitting my old equipment!

DCC is definitely the way to go! And IMHO, Digitrax RULES!

Rotor

[Anonymous]

well when i was younger my grandpa bought me an HO scale starter set by.....Lifelike i beleive, but it came with that funky fake plastic-mounted snaptogether track.....but i have two locos and quite a few cars already from my dads old collection, plus some old Atlas brass track....i dont know what the locos are(models)....the one that came in the set is a Santa Fe diesel, modern looking i think its is the one that the actual line uses (i live 1/2 hour north of san diego so i see them quite often,) and it came with a twin dummy loco, and the other is an old red/silver SF, the rounded, older looking ones with the single headlamp in the front, i think its called an F7 but im not sure, had to resolder a few connections to get them to work but theyre ok now, need a good cleaning it seems.

as for my layout i was basing it off of a step by step type article from The practical guide to HO model railroading,(if anyone is familiar with this book you will know what im talking about) its a fictional east coast line called the kitty hawk central, i liked the simple layout but i think im gonna change some things, just to be original and learn some new things...

also i no nothing about power or wiring, much less what DC or DCC is and what it does...so yeah! thats my story :) i love how i posted this maybe 30 minutes ago and already there are several ppl helping out....i think this forum will come in handy in the future, expect to se more from me! you guys are great

[selector]

KK, DC is the short form for Direct Current, the type of voltage control that your locos will respond to. Some people still prefer that older way of controlling trains, and that is what your set incudes...if you have a controller. Trouble is, wiring even a small layout so that you can run more than one loco at a time is a major undertaking. If you place two DC locos on a DC controlled track, you get two locos going in the same direction at the same speed at the same time, assuming they are the same type. Not very realistic.

On the other hand, DCC is a relatively new way of controlling locos with a digital signal superimposed by a microprocessor onto an AC (Alternating Current) signal. The locos get information about which one you are talking to (called 'Addressing'), and what you want that addressed loco to do. The other locos will sit there and do nothing because your controller isn't 'talking to them'..they have a different address, each of them.

So, with DCC (Digital Command Control), your locos only alter their behaviour when you call them up individually and direct them to alter their behaviour. You can have one loco running backwards at 30 scale mph while you are addressing another to go forwards and accelerate only to 15 mph onto a siding. Both locos do what you last told them to do, and you can go on to yet a third and get it to do something completly different.

It really is the way to go, and you can get into DCC for less than $100 if you can deal with e-bay. That is where many of the regulars here get otherwise expensive stuff. On the other hand, Bachmann makes a complete train set with a DCC decoder loco and their EZ-Command system, all for around $100, give or take. Note that the system is limited, especially with some of the sound-system equipped locos, but it will run multiple locos that just have what we call mobile decoders, the ones that make the loco move.

I hope I have helped you to understand how DCC has opened model trains to many more people who would otherwise have been put off by all of the complex wiring required in straight old DC.

[Anonymous]

yeah i saw some block wiring diagrams for makeing a straight DC layout and was like "oh no!" this DCC sounds really cool. sounds almost like working with a programming language on a coumputer. does it disregard track polarity; i.e. you could have 2 locos on one track going different directions, and then change one to go the same way? i dont know much about electrical stuff.....is it like you can program commands to individual locos and get them to do sepereate things, and the decoder just changes the way current is recieved, or something like that?

and also if i was to go DCC, what is a good power pack/system to get (nothing too flashy and expensive, but something that will give me a wide range of stuff,) and can i upgrade or make normal DC locos DCC? sounds like its just a matter of putting in a decoder?

[SpaceMouse]

I have been working on a 4 x 8 layot for a while and were I to do it again, I think I would cut the plywood and put it agains the wall. The way I would cut is to cut the plywood into two identical pieces that each form 3 attatched rectangles 40x36, 24x24, 8 x36. Flip one and you have a 16 ft layout that can be run along the wall and can turn a corner at just about any point. even in the 8" section you can have spurs and sidings and you can still turn the trains around for continuous running either dog-bone or loop to loop. Plus you can effectively use the area inside the turns for industrial siding or minor yard work. And since it is against the wall, it takes less space from the room.

I hope that was understandable.

[MisterBeasley]

I pulled my old HO trains out of the attic after 40 years of storage. Mostly, all they needed was some cleaning and lubrication, and I've got most of them running again. One thing that will not be re-used is all that brass track. It is difficult to keep clean, and the world has moved to nickel-silver now. If you are building a "learning" layout that you plan to tear up when you're ready for your "real" layout, then you can use the old track, but if you plan to keep this one for a few years, then you should seriously consider getting all new track.

Other than higher prices and fewer train shops, you'll find almost everything about Model Railroading is so much better than it used to be. (I wish we could say that about REAL railroading, but that's another subject.) As you can see from this forum, all the advice you could ever need is a few keystrokes away, and train-shopping on the Internet is so easy that the only limit is on your credit card.

Plywood is fine, but many of us have built our layouts on 2-inch insulation foam, glued to a light wood frame. This is much lighter and generally cheaper, too, and it's very easy to work with.

So, welcome back! I've just been doing this for a few months now, and it's been one of the most satisfying things I've done for years.

[Seamonster]

[#welcome], Kombatkarl. You got it pretty much right. The polarity and voltage to the track doesn't change with DCC. The controller sends out signals which are addressed to individual locomotives. Yes, you can have two locos doing different things on the same track. Heck, you can even have a head-on collision, if that turns your crank! You can buy locos with decoders already installed, or you can buy the decoders and put them in locomotives. Many, if not most of the locos sold now have a plug or other provision for installing a decoder, but even older ones can be retrofitted.

[ereimer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

Welcome HOme. (Well, I though it was cute.)

HOnestly , there's no HOpe for you !

seriously , all the DCC manufacturers make starter sets , look at their web sites to see which has features you're interested in . Digitrax has the Zephyr which is very popular , MRC's prodigy advance has many fans and gives you walk-around control right from the start (but lacks a computer interface which made it a no-go for me) easyDCC has a very nice command station with 2 controllers built in . Atlas has a fairly inexpensive starter set that is compatible with Lenz for future upgrades , NCE has some great looking stuff (but expensive!) and Bachmann has an incredibly inexpensive starter set that has some limitations but may be a great way to get started .

one neat thing about DCC is that the decoder that goes in the engine is made to a standard set by NMRA and all decoders work with all DCC command stations (although some advanced decoder features may not be available with some systems) , so no matter what you start with , you won't have to replace the decoders if you switch

best advice ... read EVERYTHING in this forum and the 'layouts and layout building' forum . the amount of info here is amazing , if you read carefully you'll never have to buy another book on model railroading (unless you're a hopeless collector of books... like me[:D] )

[jhugart]

Wow! Let's see if I can keep this post relatively short.

First off, determine your desires. Sounds like you are content to start small, but that you want to do some degree of operation. You also sound like you want to have some kind of scenery.

Secondly, keep it simple. Working on a small 4x8 layout will make it easier to accompli***hings. You can do stuff like benchwork, wiring, track laying, ballasting, scenery, buildings, etc., etc.

Thirdly, see if you have friends you can get involved. It helps pass the time.

Fourth, study each thing you plan to do before you do it. Before you mix plaster, make sure you understand the whole process. Read several books and articles on it.

Fifth, get organized. Try to put some thought into where you will store things when they aren't being used.

I could go on and on. Instead, let me point you to an old topic I started, Some Experiences of a Novice Modeler:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=1&TOPIC_ID=10582

That chronicles some of the stuff I and my friends went through.

[fiatfan]

[#welcome]

Here's another link that will give you some good information on the construction of your new layout.

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=36405

Tom

[tstage]

Kombatkarl,

If you want it cheap and inexpensive and don't want all the "flash", the Bachmann EZ Command DCC system is one worth considering. It's a good, basic, no frills, starter DCC system. You are limited to just programming the locomotive address, turning headlights on and off, consisting (i.e. lashing trains together into multiple units and running them as one unit), and limited sound - i.e. if you're locmotive has a sound decoder. For the price (and it can be found heavily discount), it's worth looking at. I paid $53 for mine.


The command station and booster on the Bachmann are one unit (about 4 x 6 x 2") and can run your layout with only two (2) wires! (Eventually, once I nail down my layout design, I'll wire it up with power busses and track feeders. For now, 2 wires works fine for what I'm doing.)

The Bachmann is also limited in power (1 amp) so you won't be able to run more than 2, maybe 3 locomotives at t a time - depending on the current draw of your locomotive(s). If you want something a little more sophisticated and powerful, Digitrax makes the Zephyr - a starter set that can be had for around $150 - and is expandible! It has, I believe, 3 amps of power available for running your locomotives. The Bachmann is a good and less expensive way to get your DCC "feet wet."

Putting decoders into locomotives can be either very straightforward or complicated - depending on the age of your locomotive and whether or not you need to isolate the motor from the frame. Most newer locomotives out now are what's called "DCC-ready", meaning they are wired and ready to receive a decoder. Some are what's called plug-n-play (PNP) and others have to sometimes be wired in. Some locomotives WITH decoders can be had for as little as $30 but, they won't be the best quality out there.

Kombatkarl, I picked DCC right off the bat for my 4 x 8' layout because it made more sense to me. I'd rather "run my trains" than "run my layout", if you know what i mean.

Hope that's helpful...

Tom

[Anonymous]

Go out and buy a 4x8, track, locomotives, and etc. Plus, the one rule in the hobby:
HAVE FUN WITH IT!!!!
Welcome back!

[dinwitty]

4x8 with 4x8 homosote on top, glued on, laying on saw supports, snap track and powerpak with some engines and cars, yer off and running....

you may quickly bore with that however, but its a start and you will find you want the railroad to be more than just that.
Just ask Spacemouse there...

Its a great hobby.

For simplicity you should use insulfrog switches.
I use snap track to try out layout designs or to test a loco, brass track and all, but the end result can have handlaid track all the way.

[selector]

Dinwitty has a point; you could go super-simple and do as he says, but use the opportunity to learn the capabilities, and limitations, of DCC and the associated locos. Once you have that figured out, you will also be pretty sure what your new layout will be like, and you'll have done lots of reading for ideas on this forum, too. So, after the early play-and-learn, you can get to the more serious side of building the best layout you can with the resources at your disposal.

If you are really darned sure that you will be in the hobby for some time, in a pretty big way, then you might consider getting a more advanced DCC set-up right off the bat, getting to know it, and then using it on the layout that you eventually build. That way, you won't have to junk the earlier, more limited set if you buy that one first. I say this with the realization that some modelers use the cheaper sets, and are very happy with them. I only mean that they are more limited in what they can do, and someone who ends up feeling too constrained will have to replace a beginner DCC set, thus losing the investment. I offer this as food for thought if dollars are constantly an issue.

[grandeman]

Take a look here for some cool track plans. http://www.atlasrr.com/ Click on the "layouts" tab.

Glad to here you're getting into model railroading!!!

[Anonymous]

Like I said Im a digitrax fan. For your first DCC system I suggest the zephyr. It costs about $150 but is well worth it. Its MUCH more advanced than the Bachmann system and will have enough power to run several locos. Computer interface? Of course! I have my zephyr hooked up to my computer right now. But the best part is that all Digitrax products are completely compatible. The zephyr is the cheap deigitrax system, but if you felt like it you could add a DT400 controller that costs almost as much as the zephyr. If you expand your layout, add a booster if you want. It all connects through phone cables which you can buy at any store! My strong opinion is that if youre going DCC keep your distance from the MRC systems. The DC power packs are great but not the DCC. We have the MRC prodigy advance at the modules and we all wish we had just spent a few extra bucks and gone with digitrax. The speed control from MRC is crap, and thats toning it down a bit. Not to mention that stupid "recall" button where you have to cycle through all the trains your running. There is no wireless adaptability with MRC and the programming only works about half the time. Sorry for venting, just dont want you to make a huge mistake.

[oleirish]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kombatkarl

Hi,
i have just recently rediscovered an interest in model railoading and dug up my dads old HO trains and track...also found two kalmbach books, scenery for model railroading and the practical guide to HO model railroading. Im thinking about putting together a layout on maybe an 4x8 plywood board, with a simple track layout, (oval with a few spurs/staging tracks and some simple screen/plaster scenery, and am wondering if there is advice to give to someone who knows nearly nothing of the workings of a railroad, or model railroad for that matter, like what to or not to buy, is 4x8 too big for a beginning project, and so on...sorry for the broad question, but i know almost nothing about all this so any help is greatly appreciated[:)].

Do you realey like model railroading?If so take your time and a 4'X8' would be a good starrting place,but plan a little bit!

COOD LUCK[:)]
Jim