Hand laid track is it worth it ?

[trainchris]

I'm kind of new to the forum; I have spent a lot of time reading everybody's advice and tips and so far I like what I have read. As a beginner at this, I'd like to find out what the experts opinion is about hand laid track. I've been told it looks better (more realistic) than pre-assembled track and the cost is comparable to the other available types of track. From what I have read, it does not seem to be too hard to do. I know it can be time consuming but, in the end, I think it will be well worth it. I started my bench work and was doing good but then lost my layout room to my 16 yr. old daughter; that's a long story for a later time. For now, I'm just reading and learning as much as possible for the start of my next layout. When I do start again, I would be modeling the PRR in HO scale with a 50s and 60s era feel. Thank you in advance for your time and knowledge.[:D]

Chris

[loathar]

I can't comment on true hand laid track other to say it does look way better and it opens you up to a greater selection of rail code. (code 83,81,70, 40 so on). Much more prototypical. You can also customize your turnouts to fit what your layout needs.
I've experimented with a semi hand laid product from Central Valley Model Works.
CVMW.com. It's strips of pastic ties that you lay similar to flex track but way more detailed.You then lay your choice of coded rail down to the self gaugeing tie plates.
Great turnout detail and pretty easy to lay. They've got some great pics and tips on their web site.Check em out!
loathar

[Texas Zepher]

Worth it in what way? Money wise it is hard to beat. Time wise it is very easy to beat.

I would say try it. If you find you can do it (some can't) and if you enjoy it, then all you have to ask is if you enjoy it more than the other things that would consume that same time.

I am ver y good at hand laying track and I actually sort of enjoy it, but I would much rather buy Peco's slap them down and get to running the trains.

[trainchris]

I guess more of what I was asking is in reference to the realism. Does it look better than the pre-assembled or are they about the same in the end? I've never seen a layout in person that has been done with hand laid track. Thank you for responding.

[jrbernier]

Chris,

This subject is very subjective. You will have to look at several items and make up your own mind:

o - Realistic looks - For very old track, hand laid cannot be beat. For most modern trackage, the lack of tie plates is very noticable.

o - Custom track formations - Another point for hand laid trackage. But, most of the current track systems available offer many of the special track items now.

o - Reliability - Lay the track carefully and you will get good results no matter which way you go. One item with hand laid; Use Homasote or soft wood for the roadbed. Spikes do not drive well into plywood(tough) or hold well with cork roadbed.

I build a layout in 1968 when I was in college - hand laid code 70 with Campbell low profile ties resting on Tru Scale milled roadbed. It ran very nice, but took a long time to build the switches. In the meantime, I help build a large club layout with code 100 & code 70 Lambert-Shinahara trackage - it ran flawless and looked good. The entire benchwork, 275 turnouts and over 7 scale miles of mainline were laid in 17 months! I was very impressed, and used code 70 Shinahara trackage on my next layout. My current layout has been around for almost 20 years and uses Atlas code 100 trackage and I have only replaced one turnout in that time. Painting the sides of the rail, and ballasting make the code 100 'look' smaller - Several folks have asked me if I have code 83. If I ever build another layout, it will be with Atlas/Walthers/Peco code 83 - it is just faster. I have looked at the Central Valley track system and really am impressed with it. But the time factor is what kills it for me. I have 'been there - done that' and laying track is just part of the hobby for me - not the main driving enjoyment. If you love to lay trackage, I would suggest you look at the CV trackage system. I think it combines the 'best' of all the available trackage system available to the modeler - it just takes more time....

Jim Bernier

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainchris

I guess more of what I was asking is in reference to the realism. Does it look better than the pre-assembled or are they about the same in the end? I've never seen a layout in person that has been done with hand laid track. Thank you for responding.

Hello trainchris, and welcome to trains.com...

Back in the day, there was no such thing as snap track and so forth. If you wanted a layout, you hand laid track-and became good at it because you had no choice.
I personally have never built a layout with anything other than old fashion track.
Like some of the other members have said, you have a lot more freedom to do what you want on your layout, and yes it does look 99% more realistic than snap track.

Good luck to you.

trainluver1

[Anonymous]

It is a skill worth developing, especially learning to build turnouts. My main portion of layout used flex track and prefab switches. Now, I'm building modules to come out of my trainroom to an out and back loop. I handlay 90% of my turnouts now. You can get a whole lot more diversity in track planniing by handlaying TOs. I still use flex track for everything else unless its a unique configuration. I also handlad the TOs on changes made to an existing yard throat.

[Anonymous]

Chris,

I think it might make sense foir turnouts but for flex, I think Micro Engineering track looks a lot better than handlaid in terms of spike and tie plate detail....

[Anonymous]

I hand lay my track, except for unseen areas where I use flex. You can't beat the cost of a scratch built turnout. It is also fun. I get great satisfaction of watching something roll through a turnout that only hours before was a pice of rail and pile of ties. It is also very relaxing. You are also not limited by commercial track geometry. If you need a 7.5 turnout instead of a 6 or 8...just build it!

As for appearance, I think commercial track is much superior.

If I were you I would look into getting the fast tracks turnout jigs. They will make it so much easier. I wi***hey had this when I was building my layout.

[Anonymous]

I plan on handlaying all of my track on my module-sized switching layout I'm planning.

Something that should be mentioned is the look of the ties themselves. If you stain them and let some of the wood grain show through - there is nothing cooler than that.

I'm trying to decide on spiking vs. soldering. With spiking you get the odd looking spike every few ties. With soldering, you end up with no spikes at all.

For some inspiration of some really good looking hand laid track, check out www.handlaidtrack.com and look at the picture gallery.

If anyone could find me a picture of a pre-fab turnout that looks that good, I'd love to see it.

This is sort of like a RTR vs. scratchbuilding topic. There are extremists on both sides of the fence.

Two large factors driving me towards hand-laid are

1) that's the way the old guys did it, so by gosh, I should be able to enjoy this part of the hobby too.

2) Cost - at $20 or whatever for a turnout, the cost is up there. And I'm in no hurry to build my layout, so I don't mind taking the time to handlay track.

I built 1 turnout so far, and with the continous rails, etc., it's the smoothest turnout I've experienced personally!

[Anonymous]

My first layout used Tru-scale milled roadbed and Atlas switch kits and a little handlaid track. The second one was all handlaid. The rest of them have all been flex-track. When the first two were built only nerds used flextrack, but now flex is accepted by all of the good builders.

I liked the handlaid tie spacing but I did that to the flex by cutting the space bars and moving the ties.

[cacole]

Handlaid track is going to depend on your ability more than anything else. A friend of mine is building a home layout using handlaid track, and it is a total mess because he has the shakes so bad he can't drive a spike straight, and has tried to put too much track into too small a space, resulting in poor trackwork. But he had all of this rail and crossties he had bought 40 years ago that just had to be used....

[jimrice4449]

I've done both, and in fact invested in a KD spiker (it's a specialized stapler that cuts the staple in the middle as it drives the remaining part on both sides of the rail. Speeds things up considerably). I'be got a RR that's huge and odd in that it's almost all yard. The upper level is psgr and is the only part that's got any scenery while the lower level is frt and has no scenery (and therefor appearance is unimportant)
On the upper level I used code 70 rail on the Central Valley ties with Shinohara switches. When ballasting I took extra pains to avoid ballast above the level of the ties and I utilized some shinohara curvable switches. Forgive my immodesty, but it looks great and was well worth the time.
On the lower level I went with Atlas code100 flex and Peco switches except for one hand laid switch that wasn't available ready made (it's a wide radius curve with an even wider radius comming off of it w/ a moveable frog. The things 25 inches long!) I'll agree with the consensus that handlaid looks better. Oddly enough, if you check into the price of tiestrip and/or ready cut ties (don't forget spikes) the price of each is about the same (except for switches). What you have to do is set you're relative value on looks vs. convenience. With 1700 ft of track and 225 switches I'd still be struggling with the lower level if I'd gone the handlaid route!

[ericboone]

It really is a trade off. I like the real wood look of handlaid, but the tie plate and spike detail is lacking. Price wise, flex track and handlaying are pretty much equivalent, but handlaid turnouts are much less expensive than commercial turnouts. If you want the best of both worlds, the Proto87 Store sells photoetched tie plates with spikes for handlaying track, but you will spend $8 to $10 per 3 feet of track just for the tie plates.

[IRONROOSTER]

If you haven't done it, I recommend you try it out. It's handy for those situations where commercial track and turnouts won't quite work. But there's no real cost savings unless you glue the rail to the ties - except for the turnouts where you can save money. There's so many things to do in building a layout that I wouldn't bother unless you really enjoy it.
Enjoy
Paul

[Budliner]

where can I get the parts to hand lay been looking for months I seen bags of ties but no rail on the bay
b -

[trainchris]

I would like to thank you all for your input on this. Your comments were very helpful and filled with much insight. I do plan on buying the jigs to help me lay the track. I also think it will be a good idea for me to make up some small scenes with different track and see what it will look like with ballast and ground cover on it. Again, this newbie thanks you all.

[Anonymous]

Budliner,

check out www.walthers.com - should be able to find everything you need on there. Search for ties & rail - probably under the "track & accessories" category or something like that.

[Anonymous]

you pay your money and take your choices.......same thing goews for time. Check out george sellios work with flex track...(there are many others) Handlaying is a great skill, use it when necessary. Hard to beat the realism of flex track properly laid, tho.......but some just enjoy hand spiking their rail.....

[dehusman]

It depends on what aspect of realissm you are concerned with. As far as alignment, the flow of the track, it looks better than the store bought track. You can get tremendously graceful curves and flowing switches.

As far as the detail of the track, you can't beat modern comercial track. Modern flex track has smaller spike heads, tie plates, rail braces, etc. On a close up quality commercial track beats handlaid 999% of the time.

Dave H.

[Budliner]

I tell you I have the hardes time finding things on that walthers web site
guess I just have to pay them for that huge catalog of theres
but thanks for the tip CARRfan
I did see my local club and one of the nice members there showed me a level he was using it had T like flange ends on both sides that fit over the rail and he sead it made the work easyer
just thought I'd pass that small tip on

B -

[loathar]

Buddliner
Go to handlaidtrack.com for parts.Those Proto87 tie plates are beautiful but I don't have
the dexterity to build it. (Fat, fumbly fingers) CVMW.com sells a code 81 rail that looks really good on mainline and branch line.
loathar

[Budliner]

[8D] het I was thinking I can run the strait sections and maby try turnouts at some (point)


budliner[^]

[dinwitty]

My only tools for handlaying?

Needlenose Pliers, good file, vise.
Parts...Rail, wood ties, spikes
if PC ties, PC ties, soldering iron, solder.
My personal decision is if I can use a great detailed turnout, I use it.
But for custom trackwork that will only fit the area of need, its handlaid.
My NKP Michigan City interchange on the South Shore is all handlaid.
I feel however model spikes are oversize no matter what you try to do.
I found tie plates you spike thru and you lay the rail on them, but it gets very meticulous. Mile for mile moneywise you cannot beat handlaid.
My personal decision is to maintain the best detail possible.
I have built double slip switches so I know.

[dacort]

I didn't buy any new turnouts for my layout, partly because I think they're too expensive and partly because I needed a lot of custom, curved sizes. I either handlaid or reused old commercial turnouts from prior layouts (mostly Shinohara and Walthers). When they are on the layout and ballasted and sceniced, it's really hard to tell the difference. I used flex for the rest, as the cost of a pair of rails is about the same as one piece of track.

I also like handlaid turnouts because I can build them to tighter tolerances than the commercial ones. Many of the commercial ones I've seen have a little slop in the flangeways, probably to accomodate wheels that are slightly out of gauge.

[Don Gibson]

SWITCH KIT's such as BK re made to NMRA spec's and when spiked into place wheel bounce and derailment's seem to disappear. They also look better. Frog's are made with rail. They cost $20 ea.and are worth it.

TODAY's FLEXTRACK speed's up track laying and runs $ .75 -$2 per foot and the difference is better ties, thinner rail, less 'toy like' appearance.

CHEAP - considering what will be well detailed SOTA car's and engine's running on it will cost only $30 - $200 per foot .

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainchris

I guess more of what I was asking is in reference to the realism. Does it look better than the pre-assembled or are they about the same in the end? I've never seen a layout in person that has been done with hand laid track.

What I've found is that most people who hand lay track do not put a spike in every tie. So from the spikes perspective they don't look as good. On the other hand some of the manufactured products just have big blobs representing spikes.

The overall geometry can look better if you work at it. I'll see if I can get some pictures to send you.

[exPalaceDog]

What is FREEDOM worth?

The Old Dog wishs it had the skills needed.

Hand laying your track allows you to go where you want, when you want. Given enough skill, anything is possible. You chose the rail size, the tie width, the tie spacing, the tie colours, the ballest size and colours, in short, everything!

You want a three way #3.67stub dual guage switch with a curved crossing running thru the middle embedded in the street, you got it.

Have fun

[Pruitt]

Wa-a-a-y back in my first college years I decided to try handlaying track. I was amazed at how easy it is. I built my switches using a method described in a 1950s issue of Model Railroader. I can still remember how amazed I was that the trains ran through the switch and stayed on the track.

I don't handlay track now because I would never be able to finish all the trackwork on the size layout I'm building.

To me, handlaid track does look more realistic. But not enough more to handlay my track. The flextrack and switches available now are much more realistic than what I could afford back in the mid-70s. Then the difference in realism was much greater between handlaid rails and flextrack.