Built on dates

[Anonymous]

Sometime in the last year I sent this question to MR asking why the manufactures of rolling stock and engines don't show the built on dates of their products in their advertisements, they never sent back an answer, (are
you listening Andy S. or Jim H.) Now I know that all you rivet counters out there
know that a PS-1 boxcar or a GE AC4400 diesel was produced on such & such
date and I'm not knocking all you people in fact I admire you for all the research
that you do to find out all this information, it's just not my bag, I had enough of that sort of thing when I was in school. I happen to be modeling the late 1920's
early 1930's and it would be nice to see in catalogs or on the net when a given
piece of equipment was built.
My question is this, would you like to see the built on dates shown in manufactures advertisements and catalogs????? ( manufactures are you listening??)
"The Harven"

[jimrice4449]

Let me second that and point out that some already do. Of, course Westerfield will not only let you know the dates (built and "used until") but generally offer versions for a typical car throughout its service life. Branchline has a label on their kit boxes that not only illustrates the car enclosed, but also gives the built date AND REPAINT DATE if applicable. Wouldn't it be nice if this was the start of a trend/

[Anonymous]

Some of the manufactures take a pattern that is close to prototype and let it suffice. An example is Athearn R-T-R BN F-7 A and B set. These are 3-digit numbered engines which are freight but have all the steam generation stuff on the shell for passenger service. It appears that some of the manufactures whose customer base is comprised of folks that want it right are already recognizing this as an important marketing tool. The rest are selling pattern to a customer base with a looser set of standard.

[tstage]

Harvey,

You got my vote. I model the early 40's and I ONLY buy rolling stock from my LHS. Why? Because I can open up the kit and look at the BLT date to see whether it fall in my era or not. I wish other manufactures would tke Branchline's lead on this. It would seem like such a simple solution to me.

Tom

[pcarrell]

Here, here...I'll second that motion!

[jrbernier]

The BLT dates are only part of the story. Take for example a GN boxcar built right after WWII - say 1946. The 'delivery' paint scheme was likely basic oxide red, but through the years it could have been repainted/rebuilt and wound up in vermillion, 'glacier' green, 'big sky' blue, or even premerger 'cascade' green. With so many variations of paint/lettering, there might not be room in the box for the actual model due to all of the 'documentation' to do it right.
I look at the actual models, research them in books/pictures or on the internet, and still get them wrong sometimes. I model a Milw branchline in the late 50's and really try to get correct cars for the era on the layout I think most of the 'high end' models are done in correct 'delivery' paint schemes, and it would be nice if the manufacturer would say something in their web site about the appopriate dates. Then again, some manufacturers just paint cars how ever they want and could care less if the dates/paint jobs are correct or match! Just another facinating part of the hobby.......

Jim Bernier

[Anonymous]

Jim, I'm aware of the paint issue but that's another can of worms. I go with what tstage
does and buy from my LHS. Some manufactures web sites like Accurail do give the
BLT date but you won't see it in adds or catalogs.
"The Harven"

[CNJ831]

Unfortunately, jrbeneir's point is well taken. Bulit date mean little beyond the fact of determining if a particular car "existed" during the period you are modeling. A great many models, particularly on the lower end of the price range, may have a valid built date for your purposes but are painted and lettered in schemes for decades later than appropriate for you. This fact is rarely indicated and very few cars are actually painted/lettered if you model the years prior to the end of WWII. Most roads changed their heralds, slogans, lettering schemes and paint choices many times over between the Depression era and today.

Long years ago, when I was a member, I tried to pu***he NMRA toward making this one of their suggested standards for manufacturers. The response was that it might constrain a product's saleability too much! In others words, do your own research or get stuck!

As a suggestion to the original poster, try joining the NEB&W website. Their guide books do indicate the era-appropriateness of many, if not most, of the commercially available HO rolling stock produced post war to about 2000. Quite possibly their pay website does the same.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

We sort of avoid that problem in here in Germany by dividing the railroad age into "eras" ("Epochen"):
Era I is for steam until the end of WWI,
Era IIa is for steam and electrical up to 1933 (for obvious reasons),
Era IIb is from 1933 to 1945
Era IIc is from 1945 through 1949 (FRG founded)
Era IIIa is from 1949 through around 1960 (transition to diesel)
Era IIIb is from 1960 through 1968 (diesel transition finished, stem on the decline)
Era IV is from 1968 through 1989 (reunification)
Era V is from around 1990 through present-day, although some modelers insist on calling the days from 1994 until now (merger of the West and East German railway system) Era Va

Maybe something like that, taylored to meet American demands, would be helpful, too. When you buy a freight car, for instance, over here and the seller tells you it is modeled after era IIIb, you know it´s the late 1960s, and you can decide whether you can use it on your layout/collection or not.

[ereimer]

here , here ! darn good idea
i think the companies who do a lot of research before they produce a model also like to share that info on their websites . obviously if someone makes a more generic model they can't publish prototype info since there isn't any

i have it pretty easy , if it's less than 36' long and has truss rods , i can probably run it [:D]

[Anonymous]

I too, also wrote MR andRMC stating that manufacturers put dates on packaging and ads.Only Branchline Trains(blueprint series) and Kadee give you built and repaint dates.I model '68 and I know some cars have been repainted at least once,like B&M red to blue,etc.It's diffently better at lhs,but they always don't have the exact car you want.FWIW,not all Accurail cars are accurate.

[jimrice4449]

Kiel Holtenau, you give undeserved credit for historical knowledge. Given the lamentable level of history teaching in US schools (they don't even CALL it history...it's "Social Studies) I doubt that as many as 10% of graduates from US high schools are aware of the signifigance of the year 1933!

[orsonroy]

A bit of research won't kill you, and with the recent explosion of interest in freight car modelling, it's actually sort of easy to do these days, especially online. If you're a modeler who cares anything at all for getting close to prototypically correct rolling stock, there are MANY online rsources for finding this sort of data. Concentrating on the steam to transition eras, here are some of my favorite reference sites:

http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/ The NEB&W's site is possibly the best general freight car resource anywhere, either on or offline. It's a pay site, but for the monthly cost of a magazine you get a huge database of information, on both prototype cars and HO scale models. It's an absolutely invaluable resource for ANY proto or proto-freelance modeler.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/ Where the proto police hang out, this is THE place to research freight cars, and to get any of your questions answered. With over 1000 members, there's a lot of daily activity, and a huge archive to dig through (recommended before you ask questions). There are several real freight car experts on the list, with dozens of books and thousands of proto and modelling articles published. Ask a question here and be assured that you'll get the right answer.

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/ One of the best modelling sites online, this is the "home" of steam era freight prototype modelers.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/index.html Possibly the largest RR photo site online, this is the best and quickest way to start your car research, by looking for a specific road's equipment. While the bulk of the images are modern, there are enough period photos to allow a casual modeler to make relatively informed decisions about which car type and which paint schemes should be appropriate.

There are dozens more, but these four should get anyone started. I started down the slippery slope of proto modeling by reading everything on all four of these sites, and creating my own image and article databases. With more online searches for RR and freight car related images and articles, I now have a 25+ CD-ROM collection of images and documents, and am a pretty well educated 1949 period modeler. I still lean heavily on the first two sites to keep my knowledge base fre***hough!

[WilmJunc]

I completely agree. The fact is that some of these folks are losing sales because of the lack of infomation. I model late 40s early 50s and if I'm unsure if the build date is after my era, I just won't buy the car.

[nfmisso]

Westerfield provides encyclopedia knowledge on each variation:
http://www.westerfield.biz/

The following do provide the information you want on thier websites.:
Accurail http://www.accurail.com/accurail/
Branchline http://www.branchline-trains.com/blueprint/40boxcars/40%27aar7/40aar7.htm
Kadee http://www.kadee.com/ca/50ps1/50ps1.htm
Red Caboose http://www.red-caboose.com/cgi-bin/e_catalog/catalog.cgi?product_display=RR-37032&shop=redcaboose&language=eng&curr=0&session=42ab95ba71158656&cart_id=23365206x28949
Intermountain http://www.imrcmodels.com/ho/html/41001.htm

The following provide some information on some cars:
Bowser http://www.bowser-trains.com/hox31_2dr.php

[cefinkjr]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kiel-Holtenau

We sort of avoid that problem in here in Germany by dividing the railroad age into "eras" ("Epochen"):
Era I is for steam until the end of WWI,
.
.
.
Era V is from around 1990 through present-day, although some modelers insist on calling the days from 1994 until now (merger of the West and East German railway system) Era Va

Maybe something like that, taylored to meet American demands, would be helpful, too. When you buy a freight car, for instance, over here and the seller tells you it is modeled after era IIIb, you know it´s the late 1960s, and you can decide whether you can use it on your layout/collection or not.

Very nice and so typically German! Makes me proud to be mostly German. [:D][:D]

On the other hand, after carefully researching a proposed purchase and finding that it does NOT fit the era I model, I typically wind up buying it anyway because I like it (the non-German part of me). Case in point: I model July ??, 1943 but I have always had a weak spot for the troop Pullmans and kitchen cars that weren't built until that autumn. Like many similar situations, I'm rationalizing this one by saying that these cars COULD have and SHOULD have been built earlier than they were and in the world I model, they were.

Chuck

[Anonymous]

Hi Chuck!

Considering my American trains, a B+O hopper REALLY shouldn´t be pulled by a BNSF SD75M - but @ € 3.47 on eBay, I mean... B+O historical society retro livery... ;-) ahem...

I have some special issues of the "Eisenbahn Journal" magazine that cover the 42 and 52 class "war locomotives". There are quite a few pictures of train consists in there, not to mention from the year(s) you model.

[Eriediamond]

I agree with the above about the BLT date being available. One thought here though. If you purchased a boxcar that had the BLT date for the era your modeling, say the 40's-50's era, and you puchased it through a catalog or on line and when you recieved that box car at home and opened it up the BLT date was correct, but then you noticed the RBLT date was 5-68. What now?? Just a thought! Ken

[tcf511]

Thanks Ray Beyer for the websites. I try for a happy medium. I certainly want to avoid at least having things on my layout that hadn't yet existed in my era.
I do like the research on my planned purchases like ebay or the internet. However, my spur of the moment buys in my LHS are limited by what the package says
or what the dealer knows.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kiel-Holtenau

Considering my American trains, a B+O hopper REALLY shouldn´t be pulled by a BNSF SD75M - but @ € 3.47 on eBay, I mean... B+O historical society retro livery... ;-) ahem...

Just this week I saw some faded L&N cars "The Family Lines" (number board redone CSX) rolling past the shop I work at. I know (think) that B&O dissapeared years before L&N did but now I would believe anything. It was being pulled by 2 UP locomotives.

[cefinkjr]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Eriediamond

I agree with the above about the BLT date being available. One thought here though. If you purchased a boxcar that had the BLT date for the era your modeling, say the 40's-50's era, and you puchased it through a catalog or on line and when you recieved that box car at home and opened it up the BLT date was correct, but then you noticed the RBLT date was 5-68. What now?? Just a thought! Ken

Easy. I call it weathering. (Others might have some less generous terms for obliterating anachronistic dates.) [}:)]

Chuck

[Eriediamond]

Chuck, my thoughts exactly. Not to dissagree, as I stated above, I do agree with you all on this, but I would also think that most would have some sort of idea of what was operated in a certain era, as one chooses an era for one reason or another. Myself, I purchase rolling stock that looks like it belongs in that era. For me that would mean friction bearing trucks, roof walks and such that would be found back in the 40's. But, for what is obvious to me since I lived in that era, would not be for someone born in th 70's, so yes I do agree era information would be really nice to have. Also, I might add that even though some cars may have a build date later than an era modeled, some were built from from plans from the era modeled and those cars could be purchase and repainted, decaled, etc to match the era being modeled if that particular car wasn't available with the correct biuld date already on it. Ken

[RedGrey62]

I just checked Athearn's site and they are listing eras on some of their items.

Rick