Passenger car question.

[Anonymous]

Can anyone out there give me a brief history of railroad passenger cars in the US after 1900.

Thanks.

trainluver1

[RedGrey62]

trainluver1,

I don't know if there is a "brief" history of passenger cars since 1900! Is ther something specific you are looking for?

Rick

[Jetrock]

Brief it is:

In 1900, passenger cars were still mostly wood with clerestory windows for ventilation. In the early 1900s through the 1920s, "heavyweight" cars, with riveted steel sides, came into general use. In the mid-1930s, railroads started using fluted stainless-steel passenger cars, which were either painted bright "streamliner" colors or left bare since they didn't rust and looked very sharp even unpainted! In the 1950s, the current trend of double-decker passenger cars began--stainless-sided cars, with two levels.

Generally, older cars were retained for second-line service or eventually banished to service as maintenance-of-way equipment.

In 1971, when Amtrak took over passenger rail service in the United States, they made use of a hodgepodge of equipment from every railroad, but have since produced several lines of single-deck and double-deck passenger cars, still using the basic stainless steel design but with gradual improvements in other systems.

Hopefully that is a little help...

[RedGrey62]

Trainluver1,

Here is some of the highlights (to the best of my knowledge, which is limited)

1900-1930s, mainly heavyweight cars, Pullman company owned and operated the sleeper cars.

1930s -1940s articulated trainsets started showing up with such trains as the Union Pacific M-1000, Burlington Pioneer Zephyr, and Illinois Central (name escapes me). Then more lightweight cars and trains started up with cars from Pullman Standard and Budd. I also believe at this time, Pullman sleeping car company was ordered to break up its "monopoly" and the individual railroads started to own their sleeping cars. Heavyweights were still in use.

1950s-1960s many of the trains were reequipped with newer lightweight cars.

Late 1960s, the railroads lost the most of the US mail contracts which was a major source of income for the passenger trains. In fact many of the "passenger" trains really consisted almost entirely of mail and package (remember, this is pre UPS, FedEx, etc)

1970, intercity passenger service was losing money and the US government stepped in and created Amtrak. Initially, Amtrak used equipment from the railroads which made for some very colorful trains. Amtrak upgraded or rebuilt cars and came up with its own image.

1980s to now, many states started their own passenger service.

All throughout this time, there were many named trains.

Broadway Limited PRR
20th Century Limited NYC
City of Los Angeles/San Fransico UP/CNW
California Zephyr CB&Q/DRGW/WP
Hummingbird L&N
Cresent Limited Southern

and too many more to list here.

Rick

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RedGrey62

trainluver1,

I don't know if there is a "brief" history of passenger cars since 1900! Is there something specific you're looking for?

Rick

I'm sorry RedGrey62 (Rick). I wasn't thinking when I asked the question. Yes, as a matter of fact there is a specific type of car I'm wondering about. What types of cars were used before the heavy weights and how long were they in service ?.

Thanks,

trainluver1

[RedGrey62]

No problem trainluver, Jetrock provided some good information on the early part of the period.

Its amazing how diverse passenger operations were. I am sure you'll get some additional help, this forum is very good.

Rick

[Anonymous]

Pullman was making cars from about 1879 and was one of many. Most others made coaches, baggage and diners while Pullman concentrated on sleepers, parlor, private and business cars. Styles were open end wood with Clerestory roof. Car overall length generally was 45 to 75 feet long. Four wheel truck on most, 6 wheel truck on longer cars. About 1900 closed ends are introduced. Harriman style appear about 1906 on Union Pacific, Southern Pacific and Illinois Central. These are closed end, round roof. Styles are baggage, coach, combine, lengths are 60-80 feet, short ones with 4 wheel truck, long with 6 wheel truck. These remain in service until the early '60's. Heavyweights get introduced about 1910 in response to public outcry of people dying in train wrecks. These are all metal construction. Styles are round roof and clearstory. Original air conditioning is ice/salt brine and remain in service until the '60's. 1930's Budd and Pullman introduce lightweight cars to provide the safety of the heavyweights without the weight usually equiped with 4-wheel truck and are 80-85' long. Budds and streamliners introduction is slowed by WWII. Pullman found to be a monopoly in 1948 and must sell assets. Cars remain in service through early years of Amtrak.
That's the rough history.

[Anonymous]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the info here. One of the types of cars that I was wondering about was the Overland. The best I can gather on them is that they were in service from 1880 to around 1905 in main line service, but went on ten or fifteen years beyond that in branch line service. I've got a picture of some World War One soldiers coming home after the war and that's the type of car they're getting off of.

Again, thanks.

trainluver1

[West Coast S]

The Overlands are based upon the four that were built by Jackson & Sharp for use by the Sierra Railway who's angle camp branch surmounted 4% grades, a switchback and provided little real estate for much trackage, hence the special equiptment.

There are several periods for wooden passenger equiptment, Pullman was not the first to produce them, companies such as Kimball, Jackson & Sharp, Carter held the market until Mortimur M. Pullman hit upon the idea to provide improved long distance sleeper service which would eclipse any sleeper in comfort and safety then produced by Jackson & Sharp.

The most famous were the Pullman Pallace cars, 75-85ft , each custom built with full vestibules,semi-vestibule or open platforms depending on your needs, these were entirely of wooden construction with Paper Allen Wheels and despite lore were not that common as most roads were hesitant about such large equiptment and expensive revisions were necessary in the areas of overhead/side,tunnel clearances and bridge loadings, not to mention the cost of new motive power.

The less notible companies were responsible for open platform, typically in the 50-60 ft. range and available in a any body configuration or roof type or track guage . By around 1900 the era of the Pallace car had passed, a victim of changing times, cost to maintain and government regulation.

As a direct result , vestibules, steel frames and draft gear became common and some wooden stock was reseathed with steel siding to comply with fire regulations, new cast trucks to replace bolted assemblies were also mandated which ended the era of paper wheels.

In 1903 The ICC banned link and pin couplers and if not so equipped, demanded the application of automatic air brakes.

By 1905 Pullman dominated the market and the lesser manfactures were abosorbed into Pullman or devoted themself to narrow guage, traction or filed for bankruptcy.

Wooden construction was banned in 1916 for cars employed in the transportation of the US mail.
Wooden construction did live on in MW duties and were the mainstay passenger fleet for some roads who's traffic levels didn't justify investment in new equiptment.

SP had a fleet of Jackson & Sharp's dating from the mid 1880s assigned to wrecker duties on the roster until the 1940s, UP transfered seven to MW and historical preservation in the 1920s, due to a lack of foresight UPs were burned during a WWII scrap drive. WP maintained a 1888 J&S former D&RGW narrow guage coach, re-trucked for standard guage for service on the Reno branch untl the late 40s.


Dave

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainluver1
Yes, as a matter of fact there is a specific type of car I'm wondering about. What types of cars were used before the heavy weights and how long were they in service ?.

In model railroader terms these would be the cars the manufacturers usually call "old time" or "vintage". They were basically the same baggage, combine, coach, and observation. Just shorter, all wood, sometimes had creature comforts like wood burning stoves.

Some of them were used right up to the end. I am thinking specifically of the AT&SF that was still using them on Kansas Mixed trains up to the 1960's. There is a great shot of this on the video "Santa Fe Odyssey Volume 1". The train consists of a GP7, covered hopper, 1870s style combine.