What's with model railroaders....are most of them "loners"?

[mondotrains]

Hi Guys,
I'm discouraged and wondered what's going on. I've been trying to find guys in this hobby to operate my layout and have not had any luck. I live in Connecticut where there are plenty of model railroaders, based on the number of hobby shops and train shows we have in this state.

I met a guy on the internet who bought an engine from me and happened to live 15 miles away. He invited me to his house to see what he's building. His layout fills a huge basement about 26 by 50 feet. He really wanted me to help him build this monster because he is about 65 years old and probably won't live long enough to build it by himself. I was impressed and started helping him with his layout, week after week. Of course, I expected him to come to my house and while I don't need help, I did hope he might be a potential "operator" on my layout. I realize my layout is only 18 by 16 feet but it's well along, with all the sidings in and structures and ready to operate. About half of the scenery is done.

Well, it turns out that this guy could care less about my layout and doesn't even plan to operate his layout. He just wants to have his grandchildren watch trains run around his room. When he did come over to my house, my wife noticed that when she asked him what he thought of all my work, especially some of the great scenery, he quickly replied "you should see what I'm building; mine is "bigger". My wife suggested that we should both just pull our pants down and get is over with....if you know what she means.

Another guy came over who I had met at a local hobby shop. I spent about an hour sharing my layout with him and mentioned I'm looking for operators. He seemed interested and said he would "call". Well, he never called and when I saw him again at the hobby shop, he said "he's been busy". Everyone's "busy".

I met another guy who my buddy mentioned was looking for some help in getting started building a layout for his son. I invited him over....shared many thoughts on what he might build and I even gave him one of my extra Kadee coupler height gauges because he was complaining that he didn't have one. I offered to have him come over with his son and see the trains run. Well, you guessed it.....I never heard back from him; not even to mention that he had found the Kadee gauge useful.

Now common, I brush my teeth and shower every day. My layout is in a beautiful room that is air conditioned and heated and was designed with the help of an experienced model railroader to have plenty of operational fun. Is it me or do you guys find that most model railroaders are "loners"?

Help,
Mondo

[egmurphy]

I think it's like anything else, there's a mix of all types. You've had some bad luck, but you're working with a small sample set of modelers. Maybe you could ask around at your LHS if they know of anyone interested in operating. Maybe you could post a message there if they have a bulletin board. Any clubs nearby (they're full of non-loners) where you might be able to line up some operators?

I'm a bit of a loner, but that's as much by necessity as by design. I don't think there's another model railroader within a hundred miles of me. I'd love to come and help but it would be a bit of a drive.

Good luck on your search. Don't get discouraged.

Ed

[cacole]

It's not you -- we have 20 members in our local HO scale club, and I only see 3 or 4 of them on a regular basis. We just had our open house weekend on the 14th and 15th of May, and only 6 or 7 club members showed up all weekend to help.

I have often thought to myself that I should just pack it up and forget about the club, since no other members are showing that much interest at all, even though we have a fully operational 20x40 foot layout. The only reason I am staying in is because I don't have a home layout (I have G scale in my back yard, but no HO indoor layout).

[METRO]

I'll tell you I'm a pretty social person, and luckily many of my friends are at least mildly interested in helping out with my layout, be it my roomates building and detailing with me or people coming over for operating.

However, I don't think the lack of help is just something in modeling. I'm a political activist as well and I've noticed that while my organization has several hundred people on our mailing list, we only see a hand full of them at meetings and events. Probably just a problem that every organized group has.

~METRO

[Anonymous]

I have a theory that once adulthood sets in, it is extremely difficult to get adults together on a regular basis to do anything.

Playing music in an orgazized fashion was easy as a teenager/early 20's person. As an adult, I find it very difficult to find a regular group to get together with. But I'm just as much of the problem as anyone else!

My MRR'ing plans pretty much only include me. I'm glad we have this forum to share with others, however.

[Anonymous]

Another idea is to hold an open house. Post flyers at your LHS and if your friends with the owner have them drum it up. Hopefully you can get a couple people over to see your layout. Once they've looked at evereything give them a throttle and let them run your layout. Hopefully they will love your layout and track plan and come back again. One bit of advice get their number and tell them. "I hope to have an ops session in two weeks. i'll give you a call when I figure out more about it. Any suggesstion on what a good day is for you?" never expect a call back. Try to make it as fun and laid back as possible. Your selling your layout so make them feel that you want them to run your layout and not just anyone else. Give it time also. Don't expect a full crew at first and don't expect them to help you build. But start with one or two people and they will bring in more.

And the person that you may not think would be interested in doing ops may be the one your looking for. That teenager may know more than you know When the owner of the hobby shop hired me I'm sure he didn't think I would be part of his layout crew over every week eager to learn and help. I didn't know a #4 turnout from a #6 a year ago but now he's surprised how much I;ve learned. I don't expect help from him on my layout except for his advice and knowledge. Though when I finish I'm sure He'll be the first person over to run it when it's done.
"If you build it they will come"
Hope this helps.
Andrew
P.s. If I lived closer I'd be the first on the list

[IRONROOSTER]

While I'm sure that a lot of model railroader are loners, I think the bigger issue is that not many of them are Operators (capital O) - at least in the sense of being part of a crew who attemps to operate the railroad just like the real thing. Under this umbrella called model railroading you have:
The Collecter : This guy has no interest in running anything, he just likes to buy it and display it. I shared a cubicle for 3 years with a collector. He went to all the shows and bought engines and cars at everyone of them in N scale. Had no layout, just a loop of track on his kitchen table for testing.
The Toy Train operator: This guy is reliving his youth buying all the toy trains and operating accessories he can - his layout is plywood tables covered in green mats with Lionel or American Flyer track, log loaders, Gabe the lamp lighter, etc. He likes to watch them go around and around.
The HiRail operator - he's like the Toy Train Operator except he uses Gargraves or Atlas track and has ballast and scenery.
The Scale train operator - he is like the Toy Train operator except he has scale track, wheels and couplers. Usually with fewer operating accessories but more buildings and scenery. He likes to watch them go around and around. Throw the switches and couple / uncouple on the spur of the moment.
The Builder - he likes building. Cars, buildings, scenery, layouts. He likes to run them because he built them..

Unfortunately, for you these guys are usually not interested in being part of an Operating crew. I believe these guys are the majority. I know I have am pretty much in the builder camp. I would suggest you ask around and see if you can find a round robin group you can join.

Good luck
Paul

[JohnT14808]

No, I don't think RR modelers are loners, just busy, like every one else.
Perhaps you have met some folks who said one thing and did something else, but I don't think it was intended to be a "slam" against you or your layout. Heck, people get busy, kids get sick, spouses expand honeydew lists on a daily, if not hourly basis, bosses demand overtime, which poops me out just thinking about it, so I don't want to do anything.
See how it snowballs? Give it time. I think the suggestion to put up a notice at your local LHS is a good one. Send a note to your local NMRA regional chair and perhaps get some notice that way.

[fievel]

I'll admit it. I'm a "loner". But if someone invited me to their layout (within reasonable
driving distance) I'd go. Thats how you can learn new ideas. Maybe the other people
are armchair modelers rather than active. Here's to you finding a good crew,Mondotrains![:)]

[3railguy]

QUOTE: I have a theory that once adulthood sets in, it is extremely difficult to get adults together on a regular basis to do anything.

What you're saying is true. When we were young, our lives were an open book to each other.

[CNJ831]

I have to concur with Paul, serious Operators represent only a small fraction of hobbyists and can be hard to find. The figure that seems to bounce around the most is somewhere between 10% and 20% of modelers are into actual operations. To many, serious operations is too much like work and many individuals took up the hobby to escape from the pressures of work in the first place. Likewise, while for those currently building a layout, someone offering a helping hand to them in the construction may be readily accepted but to spend an evening at someone elses layout running trains is looked upon as wasting time they could be applying to their own layout.

CNJ831

[Sunset Limited]

My experience as a former club member is that
1) The club is only open at certain day and time.
2) Club meetings can create alot of 'division' among club members (Politics)
3) Hobby shops are focusing more towards the Radio Control cars-planes/Plastic model building hobbiest. (Not many railroaders go to these hobby shops anymore.. In my area).
4) Some train modelers are very vocal against railroads that you might model, (I seen alot of useless squables because one modeler likes railroads from the east vs the west or steam vs diesels, transition vs modern etc.).
5) Some modelers critize too much on a persons modeling .(Their painting,scenery, track selection, ficticious railroad,etc.).
6) Some don't have the extra time anymore (Like Me).

I don't want to make it look like a railroad clubs are terrible. I'm glad I joined my railroad club. I met alot of great veteran modelers that have passed away now. They gave me that learning experience and I wi***hey were still around so we can have an 'Grand Ol Session' and run our trains and enjoy each others company together and have a few laughs like we use too! [:(]

[dinwitty]

My layout will have multi-train possible but a single operator can have fun.
I've been in a club and know the teamwork possible.
But What I am doing is so individual a club cannot do it.
It is a lot of lonership about the hobby, but goals differ between people and what they want to do.
If this guy is just building a huge layout so his grankids can watch trains go, he's missing out on the hobby for himself.

[chateauricher]

While I enjoy and treasure the time I have alone, I do like to spend time with people who share my interests.

That said, several months ago, I was invited to accompany a member of a local club to its meetings (I am not a member) as his guest. Have I gone yet ? No. [*^_^*] I work every second weekend, so that eliminates half the Saturdays when they have meetings. That also means I only have 2 weekends a month to do other things -- work on designing my own layout; run errands; house and yard work; etc. Throw in a few holidays (Christmas, New Years, Easter), visits of friends, bad weather, and my niece's wedding. I've not been left with many free Saturdays over the last few months. [:(]

Unfortunately -- and I'm sure there are many others in situations similar to my own -- Life gets in the way of our trains. [:(]

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by IRONROOSTER

While I'm sure that a lot of model railroader are loners, I think the bigger issue is that not many of them are Operators (capital O) - at least in the sense of being part of a crew who attemps to operate the railroad just like the real thing. Under this umbrella called model railroading you have:
The Collecter : This guy has no interest in running anything, he just likes to buy it and display it. I shared a cubicle for 3 years with a collector. He went to all the shows and bought engines and cars at everyone of them in N scale. Had no layout, just a loop of track on his kitchen table for testing.
The Toy Train operator: This guy is reliving his youth buying all the toy trains and operating accessories he can - his layout is plywood tables covered in green mats with Lionel or American Flyer track, log loaders, Gabe the lamp lighter, etc. He likes to watch them go around and around.
The HiRail operator - he's like the Toy Train Operator except he uses Gargraves or Atlas track and has ballast and scenery.
The Scale train operator - he is like the Toy Train operator except he has scale track, wheels and couplers. Usually with fewer operating accessories but more buildings and scenery. He likes to watch them go around and around. Throw the switches and couple / uncouple on the spur of the moment.
The Builder - he likes building. Cars, buildings, scenery, layouts. He likes to run them because he built them..

Unfortunately, for you these guys are usually not interested in being part of an Operating crew. I believe these guys are the majority. I know I have am pretty much in the builder camp. I would suggest you ask around and see if you can find a round robin group you can join.

Good luck
Paul

Paul, I've always claimed to be the weirdo in the crowd. I'm the one who wants to really operate using 3 rail O. Command control, staging, car cards, dispatching, switching, everything that you would expect to find in 2 rail operations. I have a number of 3 rail collector type friends, many of whom don't even have a circle of track. As operators they are virtually useless, and eventually I will need to find a crew too.

I used to be part of an HO operating group when I lived in Denver, but when I moved back to Minnesota, I didn't know anyone with a layout. I was in a club for a number of years, but no operations there. The layout was for public display, and the trains just ran in circles.

After 30 years in the NMRA, I decided to get active on the local level this past year. The local group has layout tours 3 times a year. Most of the layouts on the tours do operate, and some of the guys are looking for crew members. I've gotten a few invitations, and actually attended a session at one guy's house. It's kind of like riding a bike, you may get rusty, but you don't forget. I need to follow up on some of those other invites, but in the meantime, I really want to get my layout ready for next year's tour season.

Between working one's way onto crews on other people's layouts, and having that "open house" a crew should materialize.

[philnrunt]

Yes, I think most of us are loners, due to the simple fact that we are building OUR dream world. No one elses. When we invite others to share in our dream, -and when others accept the offer- it can be an intense interaction.
Just one suggestion of "I would have done that differently " can really set some people on edge. I love coming here and sharing others ideas, and hearing their plans, but that dos'nt mean I want them to pass judgement on my layout.
The flip side of the coin is, when you are invited to someone elses layout, there is the possibility of ending up making a commitment, and we all know how well any of us make new commitments. We run it thru the 5,000 other things we are into, and we are real lucky if we have the time, the money, the desire etc, to get together the first time. To do it on a regular basis multiplies those things exponentially.
I admit to being a loner, but my life has been that way since I was a kid. I have a few close friends, most from Junior High days. And while I enjoy meeting someone new with the same interests as me, it takes a whole lot to make them a commited part of my life.
I feel that is why this forum is so appealing, interchange without any real commitment. Now and again some of us get together for a face to face, but probably no more, percentage wise, than those people that you are meeting and trying to get to join you.
Best of luck, and I do agree that you should keep trying, you will find some truly decent people that will be a huge asset to your enjoyment of the hobby.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mondotrains

I'm discouraged and wondered what's going on. I've been trying to find guys in this hobby to operate my layout and have not had any luck.

Start looking around the area for clubs that operate, watch for the NMRA layout tours. Go watch them, meet them. Find out their operating schedules, become a regular operator at their layouts. Then here is what I think is the important thing. Schedule a regular operating night, advertise it, stick to it whether anyone shows up or not (It is wise to prepare an operating scheme where the number of operators is variable. I once belonged to a club who's operating scheme was such that if 11 people didn't show up operation was impossible).

I've found about six or seven operating groups here in Denver. The crossover between the groups is actually quite small, because they often are full up. I am not a full time participant in any of them but stay in touch enough to three so that I am always welcome if I show up.

[selector]

Mondo, as some fellows have admitted, I do honestly believe that most of us are...busy...loners. Additionally, I see that several posts allude to 'serious' and Capital O operators. What about my own layout and enjoyment could I possibly take seriously?! I mean, other than that it was a large monetary and emotional investment, it is meant to be a fun and thrilling evasion from the pressures of real life.

I have belonged to sports teams and astronomy clubs where there is a pecking order, where some like to show off their $3000 gizzmo, or lecture the rest of us on the right way to do, build, say, or use things. They are much to 'serious' about it!! I think many of us like being the bosses, but of our own roads, and don't particularly enjoy having someone else tell us what to do when we are in groups.

So, absolutely, we are often loners who can't be bothered attending to other modeler's interests and preferences, and skill levels, and so on. Too, if we are married, it is sometimes a chore to get time to ourselves, so sharing it with others is an incursion.

Not sure how many will agree with what I have written here, but...oh, well.

[Anonymous]

I'm a loner, and prefer it that way. People get in my way and distract me, so I'd rather not have anyone around me when I'm working on my layout or otherwise. I've always been that way since I was a little kid.

trainluver1

[Roadtrp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by IRONROOSTER

The Scale train operator - he is like the Toy Train operator except he has scale track, wheels and couplers. Usually with fewer operating accessories but more buildings and scenery. He likes to watch them go around and around. Throw the switches and couple / uncouple on the spur of the moment.

That would be me, except I do refrain from coupling/uncoupling at places where it would make no sense. I wouldn't mind meeting another Model Railroader for a beer sometime (actually, I’d prefer a glass of wine), but I wouldn't want to commit to anything more than that. Model Railroading is time I devote to MYSELF. If I want to be doing something with someone else, I'll do something with my wife.

The payoff is MUCH better.

[;)]

[ukguy]

Ditto to what Crandell said.

However I will add that you should not give up hope, I would love an invite to a local layout, to learn, experience and develop my own layout.

I am a loner due to the few people i find who share my interests, inteligence or just plain have anything to offer I am interested in. I do keep an open mind however and will usually give someone a chance, if I can squeeze them in between , work, wife, son, house, honey do, family ties and ,,sleep.

Keep trying, have fun anyway
Karl.

[Anonymous]

Late afternoons on weekdays I watch the "Dr. Phil" show while waiting for supper and checking out my Internet forums, e-mails, etc. Several times when guests on Dr. Phil's show have had problems with many others - multiple marriages, etc., Dr. Phil says what is the common denominator in all of these relatiionships? It's the person doing the complaining. Maybe it's their fault things don't work out.

So perhaps, just perhaps, it's not all of these other modelers who are "loners" and don't want to operate with you. Maybe it's you. Maybe it's the way you seem to force your needs on others. Could be anything. Just a thought - look in the mirror.

Bob Boudreau

[mondotrains]

Well,
I've sure appreciated all the input I've received on my posting.

I especially like all the suggestions as to how to network with other modelers and I guess being retired, I've forgotten how busy people can get and how limited their time can be.

I really have to think about what Bob Boudreau said above.....that maybe I need to look in the mirror and think about whether my approach is turning people off. I am a very enthusiastic person; in fact, one of my buddies claims that I'm too intense. Maybe when I get a guy over here, I am too overbearing and my enthusiasm blows people away. Well, that's me and it's difficult to change at 57 years old.

Having heard some of the responses above from people who do enjoy trains alone and not in a group is real helpful. Maybe I've known all along that I'm a loner and also don't want criticism and "help" from others because it can be so intimidating. So just maybe, I think I need others to share the hobby with but deep down inside, I know it won't work.

I'll have to really think about what I want. As they often say..."be careful what you wish for". Maybe I'll just continue enjoying building my kits, tunigng up freight cars, adding scenery and watching the trains run and not worry about operating with a group of guys.

Thanks again guys for all the input.
Happy railroading.
Mondo

[tatans]

Probably the reason for my interest in MRR was to prevent the onset of boredom, I soon realised that NO one I knew had any interest in trains (or,really, no interest in anything) so I knew if I was to keep from chewing furniture I had better get something to do, and it seems, by myself. This forum is a godsend to communicate with other people and get slick answers to my mundane questions. Model Railroading is only a part of me keeping busy in order to retain the small bit of sanity I have left, I love nattering to other people about anything except their grandchildren and money and politics and religion and--and-- So I sort of keep busy by myself, but if it entails socializing with others, that's a nifty benefit. Maybe downsizing your layout to a one-man operation is the answer or revising your layout to meet YOUR needs. If you need any more encouragement, just go to a seniors complex and watch all those guys staring out the window all day long just waiting for someone to talk to, remember, they were just too busy for all that toy train foolishness. "Loners" may not be the exact term, maybe "individualist'' or such, but I do know some wonderful "Lone Wolves" --- Keep on trainin'

[Anonymous]

I am a loner I really don't have any need to be with other modelers.
I have a friend who is a MRR but we really dont do anything together.
We will chat about stuff and he is an electrical engineer so he can answer some DCC questions for me. He doesnt attack my railroad and I dont attck his.
I do have a fellow employee who loves BNSF and goes on about UP like its the evil empire. I usually tune him out. I am not interested in today's operation other than their heritage fleet and steam engines. Oh then you got the people who think you like Thomas give me a break with Thomas already.
I go out to my train room to get away from all of this. I am also a loner railfan
I refuse to be lumped in with the nuts who tie themselves to a car going 70 mph while they hold a video camera. I stay out of the way when the crew is refueling lubing or other maintenance is being done. I dont know how many times I have seen morons creating a problem cause they want that perfect shot.
I like my space
and I respect that of others

[Anonymous]

It's interesting you brought this up.

I enjoy trains wherever they may roam. At the trainshow, hobby shop, prototype or home layouts.

I spent some time helping to build a layout at the LHS when I could get away on early saturday mornings. The group we had meet were about 5-9 people at the most. There was more but life issues keeps them from showing up more than several times a year.

Everyone kind of sorted themselves into a order. I will not call it pecking but there were areas that was a good coverage. For example

One person enjoyed figures and assembling scenes that reflect life.

Another likes to tinker with the track and trains, nothing made today is perfect enough to run "right"

A third builds from peices of wood buildings and such and is a trove of tips and tricks on structures.

There are one or two that constantly ask questions prefaced with either "WOW!" or "How did you do that!?" we all answered every question cheerfully.

There are the strong silent types as well as the cheerful ones with piles of stories and everything in between.

What a crew.

We took a hour one time talking about trees in bulk for a hill and trying to get everyone on the right track. The next hour was assembling as a group assembly line fashion to actually make the trees. I think it was a few minutes work to have armfuls of trees.

I have not gone to these "seminars" because of life issues that require my time lately but can tell you that they still assemble as a group from time to time.

Me? I guess I get the "Big engine" out hook it up to a worthy train and get it over the railroad and every one needs to stand back because Im passing thru. I dont worry too much about the people themselves. If they cannot run trains and "Share" with others then I think there might be something that makes it difficult to do so.

I was taught to run trains in a time where people actually got together in the neighborhood several times a week as kids just to run trains and enjoy them. The one thing that I found bothersome is the few persons who may have a "lofty" view of life above the masses on top of a Brass handmade one-of-500 made 5,000 dollar engine.

They need to get down from up there and show us what that engine is made of.

That is all I need to say about that.

[West Coast S]

I like being different, just ask my frustrated LHS owner who has been unable to persuade me to return to HO. I chose my scale to appeal to my craftsman side. There is a local S scale group, never met them or known them to have a show in the traditional form, they meet on a round robin schedule that often conflicts with my real life schedule, plus there are several variations to S scale each, with a fierce loyality following.

I've never had a postive experince in a club setting, too much "my modeling and prototype is better then yours". If I want politics, I can go to the office and get paid to partake in it.

I'm not anti-social or a loner , I hold no prejudices regarding scale, era, prototype or ones skill level. I think each of us has something that is of interest to fellow hobbyist. This forum is as vital to me as the S guage groups. [soapbox]

[vsmith]

Lone Wolf

...but not for alot of the reasons listed here...some reasons like lack of time or ability to commit to a club are true for me, but my primary reason for being vary wary of socializing with other model railroaders has always been the more personal side of things..you see I kinda got burned, real bad, when my "politics" and my "religious outlook" didnt mesh with the majority. I am now very wary because I know its only a matter of time before these become issues.

Come on now, how many Conservitive Christian model RRers do you know who hang out with Socially Liberal model RRers or hard-core Repub's RRers with hard-core Democrat RRers? (Yes, they are ALL out there) This conflict ALWAYS arises in groups like clubs, its unavoidable, so I keep away to avoid the conflict. I like going to swap meets, shows, etc. but when it comes to my hobby, my layout, and my models I do tend to keep to myself and not get too familiar with anyone until i get to know there "other side" a little better.

I do prefer the webs abitilty to "nuetralize" oneself from alot of these issues, I can post questions, photos, ideas, without having to worry about these issues getting "in the way" and if they become an issue on a topic, I'm not confronted with the need to defend or attack anyone or myself, i can just click on to the next topic if I chose to.

[Eriediamond]

Hey, Mondo. After reading through the replies here, I can only answer that I'm basicly a loner and probabley fit a number of the the titles given modelers above. However, I do belong to a club and enjoy the company of the other members, but because of my work, I don't make many of the meetings. I'm an over the road trucker and when I do get home I may have only one day and I'd rather spend what time I do have with my family. Something to think about that nobody has mentioned yet is that as much as I like other modelers work and talents I would feel uncomfortable running another persons trains. It may sound silly but I think it's respect for anothers work. Another thing that may enter into it is that maybe some have never operated with others and are a little afraid of not measurung up to someone elses standards, so to speak. An operating session sounds technical and complicated where as helping to run a layout sounds more interesting, to me anyway. If someone wants to run their layout like a real railroad, thats fine, but I think the major portion of us modelers just love trains and love to see them run. By the way, how did your infra-red train dectors work out for you? Ken

[MAbruce]

I’ve found that people in our hobby tend to be introverted. So what happens when you fill a room full of introverts to operate a layout, participate in a club, or even build a layout?

I’ll leave it to your imaginations, because introverts tend to be very creative.