current through ball bearing wheels

[Anonymous]

Hey All.

I've rigged my 3 passenger cars to have lights that run off the track. The problem is, to get a good enough connection to produce constant light (without flicker), the brass sheet that I'm using as a pickup creates a pretty good drag on the wheels. Thus, my engine is getting a bit over-worked and runs pretty loud.

I've learned that there are ball bearing wheels (Intermountain #W40058) which I believe have a stationary axle. So this would take care of the drag issue, my concern would be if they pass the current well enough that my lights wouldn't flicker.

Does anyone have any experience or advice on this?

Thanks much,
Seth

[Anonymous]

Welcome!
I own both IM non-ball bearings and also the IM ball-bearings.

My objective was to maxiimize free rolling ability in my Walthers Budd Passenger cars with the BB's
The non BB's roll almost as far and IMO the BB's are overpriced at almost $3.50 per axle, or $20.00
per pack of six axles.

Bear in mind that all axles are not created equal. They vary in axle length so it may be a hit or miss
in your particular cars.

The IM's can't guarantee non-flickering but I bet Don Gibson can recommend a lighting solution.
Let's get Don on board for this situation.

[Anonymous]

Don may be working an extra board shift so I don't know when his run returns.

[cwclark]

you could also put in a bridge diade with a capacitor to help cut down on the flicker..ask Randy Rinker how to wire it so that the flicker goes away ...also, try these two websites www.mrollins.com and home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/MiscSignals.html

[Anonymous]

Not sure if experience with LGB G scale BB wheels holds true in HO, but I've got a couple of G scale vehicles fitted with them (and lighting) and have had no flickering at all - both are used to add extra pickups to the loco they run with though I'm not sure if this is necessary - have had no stalls whatsoever.

[Virginian]

Running current through a ball or roller bearing is definitely not a recommended practice, as you will get at least some spark generation, and this will eat up the bearing(s). This is not an opinion, this is a fact. That's why on industrial DC motors you often have a grounding strap/brush on the shaft. This issue is almost non existant with low voltage relatively low speed friction bearings, although it seems it should be. The explanation I have heard is that one always has contact in friction bearings, but in theory there should be lubrication between the metal surfaces. Food for thought anyway.
I have found that I can get much better pick-up, with much less drag, using pick-ups fabricated out of brass or copper wire than out of brass sheet, etc. This is because you can apply much more load on a force to area basis to the contact patch, but still generate less drag. Partly because the area is so much less and partly because the very small contact patch will quickly polish itself smooth.

[Don Gibson]

Ball Bearing wheel's - or 'My Friend Flicker'.

'Flicker' is a rapid intermittantcy caused by the rolling wheel's poor electrical pickup on track. Improving the electrical contact or adding large amount's of capacitance are workable answer's, not ball bearing wheels.

BEST do-it-yourself answer is to install TOMAR track wiper's.
BETTER answer is to install RICHMOND CONTROLS' car lighting.

[nfmisso]

A flicker free lighting solution, not for everyone. Works with AC, DC and DCC. Use LEDs or low voltage bulbs.

Parts:
Large capacitor such as: (this is over kill, less capacitance will be okay for most applications)
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=140280&item=CBC-14&type=store
Bridge Rectifier such as:
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=110&item=FWB-15&type=store
Medium capacitor 100 mfd is plenty
http://www.allelectronics.com/matrix/Radial_Electrolytic_Cap.html
Voltage regulator:
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=search&item=LM317LZ&type=store
Resistors for setting regulator's output voltage, and current limiting resistors for LEDs:
http://www.allelectronics.com/matrix/One_Quarter_W_Resistors.html

Wiring:

From the track pick ups, run wires to the AC connections on the bridge rectifier.
Attach the medium capacitor accross the DC connections on the bridge rectifier, + to +, - to -.
Attach the voltage regulator's input to the + side of the bridge recitifer, attach the resistors per the data sheet to achieve the desired out put voltage.
Attach the larger capacitor to output of the voltage regulator a - of the bridge; + to +, - to -. Make sure that the voltage output of the regulator is well under the rating of the capacitor before hooking up the capacitor.
Attach LEDs with current limiting resistors and/or low voltage light bulbs.

A capacitor as large as the one listed above, with power a LED for many many minutes.

[Anonymous]

So the answers I got are:

1) add a capacitor to reduce flicker (I don't want to do this)
2) if BB scale holds true for HO, ball bearing wheels will work fine
3) current through ball bearings is a bad idea
4) use wire instead of sheet for pickup

Right now, I'm leaning towards #2 or #4. I want to keep my current wiring setup and just reduce the drag.

Anyone have further thoughts or ways to sort out these responses?

Thanks,
Seth

[rrinker]

If you are using DCC, I have a circuit diagram from Mark Gurries that does the capcitor and voltage regulator thing is a manner that is DCC friendly. A voltage regulator and large capacitor will WORK on DC or DCC, but you will have high inrush currents with DCC, much as with QSI equipped locos,a nd it may cause problems with resettign after shorts, espcially if you have many cars. Mark's circuit limits the inrush current, so it take a bit longer to charge the capcitor to full power, but it is quite capable of sustainign the power past intermittent pickup and dead spots. Unfortunately I don't have a link handy to where you might find a copy of this. I saw it once and printed it out and added it to my DCC notebook. As soon as I figure out a place to get it from, I'll post a link.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

I'm on DC and don't want to deal with capacitors at this time.

I'm going to do one of the following:

a) switch to wire pickup, instead of sheet pickup
b) get ball bearing wheels
c) get another engine to help with the load

Advice as to which is the best bet is welcome.

Thanks,
Seth

[Jacktal]

Installing ball bearing wheels definitely IS NOT a good solution to poor electrical conductivity.As earlier mentionned,current travelling through a bearing will create arcing thus digging microscopic holes in your bearing surfaces,ruining it in no time.Even more,a strong short circuit across the bearing may simply weld it and stop it from turning instantly.

[Anonymous]

Seth, is it too late to consider DCC? Not for "constant" (high frequency) lighting alone but for the many advantages the system offers for easier wiring and better train control all around. I'm not sure anything short of using capacitors, led lights, etc. can guaranty "flicker" free lighting. I'll be watching for future posts as my HO layout is still D.C. and I run a lot of lighted passenger cars. My G gauge is DCC, so no problems. Good luck

[Anonymous]

To prevent flicker , you obviously need a constant voltage, such as a battery. Given that, a battery pack from a portable hand held telephone would suffice. It would charge while the train was running from the wire wiper pickups on the wheels. When the power from the rails is off the battery is still live so it could possibly run the engine( under ideal conditions) so inserting an isolation diode in serires with one lead of the battery to track will prevent battery drain yet still provide lights.

[Anonymous]

My trains are already lit and wired, and I have no plans/desire to change that. They do not flicker and look fantastic. My train has only one track and I have no need for cab control. It encircles my room near the ceiling, so I need nothing more.

My concern is with drag. I'm trying to reduce it. Apparently, ball bearings are not the way to go. So, I will experiment with different pickups or add another engine.

Any other thoughts on reducing drag but maintaining current are welcome.

Seth

[Virginian]

Do the wheels spin free without the electrical wipers? If so I am betting wire wipers will solve your drag problem. If not, try the tuner tool and Intermountain wheels. If THAT doesn't solve it you may need new trucks.

[train18393]

I had similar problem with my old Athearn heavyweights and added a small bridge rectifier and voltage regulator, a slide switch in the floor and a rechargeable battery that powers the 1.5 volt lights. I did this probably 20 years ago. They still work fine. Kind of a crude fix, bit draws little current, I have never replaced a battary and it is not terribly expensive. The intermittant contact is no problem at all either

Paul

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by sethleonard

I'm on DC and don't want to deal with capacitors at this time.

I'm going to do one of the following:

a) switch to wire pickup, instead of sheet pickup
b) get ball bearing wheels
c) get another engine to help with the load

Advice as to which is the best bet is welcome.

Ive tried 'em all,

YOU NEVER GET RID OF FLICKER (from wheels). Best you can do is to 'slow it down' to where you don't notice it. (per Richmond controls).

To actually RID yourself of flicker you need a battery - or a circuit that include's one.
You seem to want simplistic answer's. a) Simplest is to install TOMAR track wipers. b) and c) are no helpat all.