Clearance for a Bowser PCC car

[MisterBeasley]

I'm building my subway tunnels. Right now, I've got plenty of clearance for the Lifelike R-17 cars I'm running, but I'd like to add a Bowser PCC car. How much clearance above the rails do I need to operate one of these?

I'll admit I'm cheating a bit on the headroom standards, but I don't have a lot of space for my climbs up to ground level, so I'm trying to minimize my tunnel height. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Although this doesn't answer your question specific to the Bowser PCC, I hope this will give you some idea. I copied this from the N.M.R.A. wbb site NMRA STANDARDS S-5 Traction Power Collection):

QUOTE: OVERHEAD:

a. The wire heights specified (equivalent to 21' for city/interurban and 23' for heavy RR type operation) will accommodate the widest practical range of car and locomotive types. A height other than that specified may be used to simulate a specific prototype or a limited class of equipment, but may limit interchange of equipment.

b. Normal wire height may be lowered thru underpasses and other obstructions, with consideration for the clearances of equipment to be operated.

[Anonymous]

Mister Beasley, will you be "channeling" your Bowser P.C.C.? The older version of this car (metal casting) perched too high on the rails. The solution, as per an article in M.R., was to "channel" the mounts inside the shell to bring the over-all profile closer to the rails. That may not be a problem on the newer version, not sure. It wouldn't be a huge gain for clearance but maybe something to consider for improved realism? Trollyboy (a Forum contributor) could, no doubt, contribute data on the subject. Good luck

[MisterBeasley]

The Bachmann version of the PCC car sits way to far up, which is one reason I prefer the Bowser. The new ones look pretty good. I went to the Bowser website (well, duh) and they had the specs I needed for the car. Turns out, it's even lower-profile than my R17 Redbirds, so it will fit through the tunnels just fine. So, I asked my LHS guy if he can order one. (He gives me discounts.) If not, I'll find one online.

And while we're on the subject, the postman brought my mini-cam for the trains today. I decided that I really needed to view the subway walls through the motorman's eyes to get the effect I want before I can cap off the tunnels. The main line of the Moose Bay Transit Authority is all laid, and I'm working on the grades up to the surface for the PCC car's route.

[dinwitty]

It seems the only way to enjoy a hobby subway is to put a camera in a car.
If I were to do a subway I would kinda half model the tunnel allowing view on one side.
and kinda fake the blocking tunnel side. Accessablilty is key anyways.
Although I am working on a Chicago area modeling...no subways! 8-}

but I think I will kinda model the freight tunnels, I got theis HOn3 mine train which will work out.

[trolleyboy]

You have already found your answer.but The new PCC's are indeed at the proper height.My experiance with Bowser has been that it's sometimes best to order direct on the street railway equipment. Two or three week wait from Bowser direct as oposed to a month and a bit when I ordered through my LHS.Depends on how quickly you need your PCC. The newer castings though still metal are much cleaner and quicker to clean up than the older ones as well. The new drive is also light years ahead of their older units. If you have the older ones already Bowser will sell the new drive as a replacement part. This will lower the older kit to the lower height alot of traction modellers will also use this retofit kit to address the Bachman plastic cars over height problem as well. Are you going to run the PCC as a passenger car in your "tube" or is it going to be a piece of work equipment? Toronto's TTC has a couple of sets of PCC's that they converted to third rail powered rail grinders for their subway lines. Possibly an interesting conversion project. Also thanks ted for the build up and vote of confidence. I'm certainly not the most skilled modeller out there but with the little bit of knowledge andexperience I have I lkike try ing to help out. I never qit learning myself that's what makes the hobby so endearing. Happy Modelling Rob

[Anonymous]

Mister Beasley, I was wondering if dinwitty's thought could be put into practice at a station with a single sliding plexi-glass panel? This would expose the station for the world to see and offer some access as well. Would just two tracks (top and bottom) for the "panel" [like a California sliding glass window] to slide out of sight inside the tunnel walls be practical? I'm sure you will provide "lift out" sections from the surface for derailments. Only a "shot in the "dark." Good luck with the mini-cam project. Regards

[MisterBeasley]

I'm in no hurry to get the PCC car, so I asked my LHS guy to look for one for me. He'll give me a discount, plus advice on cleaning and painting once I pick my colors.

The two stations on my subway are both at the layout edge, on flat sides. I plan to install a fold-down wall hinged at the bottom, so I'll have both visibility and access when I want it, but I'll be able to "button up" and have a closed operation with the camera.

I just took the camera for it's first ride around the loop, and it looks like I may have some "blind spots" on the inside of the curves where the camera just doesn't see. If so, I'll be able to cheat a bit, and maybe leave these spots for access with a blackout curtain or something some distance away. It's daytime now, but once the sun goes down I can darken the room and see what my low-light performance is like.

[trolleyboy]

How well do the R-17's run? I have a local hobby shop that has the "green" cars in stock. I have been concidering getting a set to run as an "L". I would much prefer that LL makes a set of TTC gloster cars but that isn't likely to happen so these repainted maybe close enough. Thanks Rob

[MisterBeasley]

I'm very happy with the R-17's. I've got the dark red ones with the silver roof. I didn't know they were making them in green - are those also the Lifelike Proto 1000's? I saw the brighter red ones at a show. The looked better in real life than they do in the pictures on the web sites. The bright ones also seem to be priced lower, so I wonder if they are the same quality or not.

Remember, though, that I'm just getting back into this hobby after 40 years, so my point of reference is a bunch of old belt-drive Athearn GP-9's and F-7's. I'm in the pink foam stage right now, so I don't have a lot of running time under my belt yet, but I think the R-17's run very well and look very good. The lighting is nice, too. I can take the whole 4-car train up an excessively steep grade (2.5 inches in 5 feet, whatever that works out to) with no problem. They corner well on my 18-inch radius curves.

[trolleyboy]

Yes they were the proto 1000 models.They were what I thought expensive a set of two was $117 now that is Canadian of coarse.I liked the look of the detailing however and since these were the first one that I'd seen live rather than a magasine ad I was impressed. Seeing as how these are proto models you will find that they should run even better once they have some running time under their belts and are broken in. The performance will de light years ahead of your older athearns don't throw them away thouggh as they can alwys be repowered by a newer drive.Remmbering that model railroaders invented recycling. LOL Rob