DCC Ready double crossover

[jcgisel]

DCC Double Croosover?I just hooked up my new digitrax dcc system to my new layout and I don't know how to wire the 3 double crossovers. Everything seemed fine with the diesel, but when my BL steam goes though it slow to switch tracks it stalls out. It doesn't trip a breaker in the PM 42. I'm stumped.

[Don Gibson]

WHAT MAKE double crossover are you using? . It makes a big difference.
You haven't wired them correctly. THAT's who you should be asking.

[nfmisso]

See: http://www.dcctrains.com/tonystips/2005/021805.htm

[jcgisel]

I'm using walthers double crossovers that are dcc ready.

[jcgisel]

still don't know how to wire it.

[Don Gibson]

OK. Walthers' gets their track from SHINOHARA..

You need to get a wiring diagram from WATHER'S. You are THEIR customer.

[jcgisel]

I thought of doing that, but wanted to see if anyone has had this problem before. I would like to hook them up correctly today. To bad they didn't come with instructions.

[Don Gibson]

The Walthrs/Shinohara 'DCC ready' double crossover's have isolated frogs - for starters - and are new. Diagrams may not be ready yet. The old Walthers catalog (?) had wiring diagrams. You might try those for starters.

A Double Xover presents multiple path choices. You have track section (straight - curved) which is easy, but the +/- wiring gets complicated. Are going to use 4 ground throws or 4 switch machines?

With 3 Double XOver's I hope you haven't have gotten in over your head. You HAVE picked a quality turnout brand, however you have 2 potential reversing blocks - always a complication.

I would suggest you go to yor LHS to ask if they have a customer who is an electrical genius. Problem may be, you didn't buy the 3 turnout's from them.

[jcgisel]

For now I am going to use ground thows until I have enough money for switches......which could be a while. I don't think I'm going to use the dcc system for the switches though. By the way, just got back from the hobby shop and stumped them also.

[Don Gibson]

JC:

If you don't have a meter to show voltages get a 12v - 14v light with probes or alligator clips to show what's hot and what's not. I soldered Alligator clips to the leads of a 12 volt grain-o-wheat bulb, and traced where the voltage was.
If you are going to use Caboose Ground throws I'd suggest the ones with SPDT contact point's for 'power routing' capability. These will require an OBLONG hole (bummer) but may save the day later to feed power through the crossing. Better to be prepared.

Your problem is not going to be getting wheels through the (4) turnouts, but getting POWER to them. 12 turnout's with 6 XOvers is daunting. SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE, is a person with the design info. Maybe Walthers. Maybe Shinohara. Don't take "no" for an answer. Make Walthers find it. These XOver's are expensive enough.

[TBat55]

Somebody at Shinohara figured it out before they started building them (for testing if nothing else). But instructions in Japanese won't help. How something like this can ship without a schematic amazes me. I agree: hammer Walthers until they get the info and before I buy one (ha ha).

[jcgisel]

I just got an E-mail from walthers, and they said that they don't have a schematic for wiring.... They did refer me to some books, but I don't have them. I went to my hobby shop and they contacted walthers and said that walthers has been having trouble with these crossovers and that solder joints may not be bonded properly.... Mine are glued down. I hope this isn't $150 bucks down the drain.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jcgisel

I just got an E-mail from walthers, and they said that they don't have a schematic for wiring.... They did refer me to some books, but I don't have them. I went to my hobby shop and they contacted walthers and said that walthers has been having trouble with these crossovers and that solder joints may not be bonded properly.... Mine are glued down. I hope this isn't $150 bucks down the drain.

Sound's like some 'phoney baloney' to me. Shinohara has made these Xover's for some year's, and the new design involves isolating the frog & point rails from each other (mettalic throw bar). It's a Shinohara design and Wathers' screwup.

The Shinohara Distributer (JVsomebody) had an application's man that gave me wiring diagrams for their 3 Way, and also the company has published diagrams for ALL their product's. If he is still on board, he's worth finding. Keep in mind that his salary is not related to the the Walthers product.

1. Find out who is the US importer of Shinohara. GO from there.
2. Tell the TRACK BUYER at Walthers you will RETURN the 3 X Over's where you bought them as "unusable". (That will cause problem's for him with the dealer).

This guy sit's at a desk and has no idea's how to wire them - but he can find out who does! Put him to work. DON'T ACCEPT EXCUSES.

[railroadyoshi]

good luck, and hope you figure this out and post it here, cause a double crossover is integral in my new design!

[cacole]

I can't believe that Walthers would market an item and not include information on how it is supposed to be wired. A diagram of some type should have been enclosed with the crossovers. The Shinohara web site may include a schematic wiring diagram that you could understand despite it's being written in Japanese, because such things are more or less standardized throughout the world.

If you can find a diagram, I can translate it for you if necessary.

[Anonymous]

I built my double crossover out of Atlas parts. 4 #4 switches, a 30 degree(I think) crossover and some little pieces of track. It takes up more room than the ready-built ones, but I have had no problems with it using DCC.

[Don Gibson]

JPM335

Considering there is potential for two reversing blocks, I'd be interested on HOW you wired it, DCC or no..

If you are using common polarity on all 4 tracks, what happens when you reverse any one of them? Do trains on both tracks back up?

[BRAKIE]

Don,Joe is quite correct..It easy really and don't require any special wiring and works the first time with straight wiring from the power pack to the rails....

[dgwinup]

I don't know how Shinohara wires their turnouts.

To determine power routing through your turnouts, set the turnout on a table with a power supply connected to a pair of rails on one end of the unit with all the turnouts aligned for the straight route. Use a meter, dc tester, or even a light bulb with wires soldered to it to test for current. With power applied to the pair of rails, test EACH rail in the crossover. Make a note of which rails have power and which don't. Now set ONE turnout to the diverging route and retest all the rails. Make a note of any differences you find from your first test. Now throw the opposite turnout in the same direction as the first turnout (as if a train were going to cross over). Test the rails again, note any differences. Continue in the same manner until you have tested all rails in all turnout positions. The resulting notes you took should tell you when and where you have power. All you need to do is supply power where it is missing.

Crossovers do not automatically generate reversing loops. It is only when one side of the crossover loops around and returns to the other side of the crossover AND the turnouts are set for crossing over from one track to the other. Then you have a reversing loop. Since a reversing loop is only created when opposing turnouts are set to the diverging route, I think most people handle this situation by making the entire loop between tracks into a reversing loop because it is easier to control direction on a larger loop. All the rails in the loop are insulated. When the train is in the loop, power is reversed on the mainline so the train can continue through the turnouts without stalling or shorting out. A DCC reverse module will change the polarity for you as the train heads out of the loop.

Doing THREE of them is going to be quite a task. Good luck with it. Maybe one of the electrical wizards on the forum can draw you a diagram of what you need. Hint, hint.

Darrell, returning to quiet...for now

[rolleiman]

[image]http://rolleiman.com/trains/double.jpg[/image]

Where ever you see red and blue cross, needs to be isolated. Make sure too that your throwbars don't actually connect the point rails. If you have dead rails (point rails) you can install jumpers from red-red and blue to blue..

[image]http://www.rolleiman.com/trains/xover1.jpg[/image]

You say your diesels run fine but your BLI steamer stalls with no short indicated from the PM42.. I don't know why that would be, I thought the BLI locos were powered on both sides just like the modern diesels (model).. Make sure when you isolate the frogs that your locomotive wheels can't jump the gaps. If you are using caboose throws, the frogs are going to remain dead.. If you are going to get into the tortises, write back and I'll show you how to wire this puppy (it's a mess)....

Jeff
[8D]