Quit slamming the TYCO!

[DigitalGriffin]

Greetings all,

I've noticed a trend. Whenever a newbee ask how to fix/restore/convert a TYCO train the most common reply is, "It's junk" or something of that nature.

I will relent, they are noisy, rough running, and prone to breakdown, and burnout. But slamming TYCO is not what the poster asked for.

A lot of us had child hood memories tied up in TYCO as they were our first trains. So they hold a great deal of sentimental value even if they are "cheap toys" Hey the early lionel's were junk compared to today's O scale engines. Yet look at what they are worth because of their sentimental value.

Perhaps a better suggestion would be to look at possible alternatives if they don't have sentimental value to these pieces.

(BTW: I have plan on having my old TYCO Golden Eagle and Spirit of 76' set carefully hidden on my new layout for sentimental reasons...maybe in the RIP or roundhouse.)

Junk PAH! If it makes you happy, do it!

Not trying to start a flame war here, it's just food for thought for those who insist on poo-pooing the idea.

~Don

[gvdobler]

Easy there.

I agree that too many times people are shot down for their lack of understanding or lack of funds. The idea is to have fun and enjoy this stuff.

But, if the question is "How do I make my Tyco trainset look like the V&O pictures?"
then I agree that new stuff is in order.

Jon - Las Vegas [:D]

[Javern]

the point is questions should be answered not lectured. We all have our opinions and desires. We all have our budgets and levels of detail.

[Anonymous]

Is it just me, or is this just like another thread we had a while ago about Bachmann?

[METRO]

Alright everyone. What I believe most of the posters, especially the more expeirenced ones are saying when they "ba***yco" is that for your buck, restoring and upgrading an old Tyco engine is not worth it, unless there are sentimental reasons.

I reciently restored two of my grandfather's Athearn rubber band drive RDCs with NWSL power trucks and quite a bit of shell work. Wouldn't it have just been easier and cheaper to buy some more P1K RDCs? Yes, it would and I've already got a good fleet of them, but these were directly from my grandfather's layout and I wanted them to be part of mine.

I'd imagine it's the same for some people with their Tycos. However, if you are just trying to save a few bucks by detailing a toy-train model, it's really not worth it as it will cost more in the long run and be quite a headache, believe me I've done it.

~METRO

[Anonymous]

Is it here or in another forum where such blanket criticism of a manufacturer is not tolerated by the site administrators? Don't recall.

Wayne

[Anonymous]

In regards to the original post of whether to put DCC in a Tyco I offer the following from the Loys Toys website:

A good loco will have:

First and FOREMOST, all-wheel power pickup.
Quality pickup transfer
A quality can motor, usually 5-pole skew-wound
Flywheel(s) on the motor shaft
All-wheel drive
Weight

A Tyco does not meet any of these characteristics and later on in the website he says he has never seen a good running Tyco.

I still have a few Tyco's I have never gotten rid of, at one time I was going to make a well detailed GP-20 and C-630 out of these shells, but other makers have come up with a better model right out of the box.

I wish every LHS could steer the customer to Athearn, Atlas, P2K etc. But Tyco is a name many people remember from their childhood so they want to have them even though they are not the quality of the models offered in the 1970's.

Tyco had its place just as Varney did and we need to remember the good they did for the hobby way back when and I apoligize for slamming Tyco the way I did, but they are not the quality we need to keep the newcomers into Model Railroading.

Rick

[vsmith]

Would I Ba***YCO?


Only with a properly sized hammer!

[:o)][}:)][:O][8)][:P][;)][alien][*^_^*][X-)][censored][%-)][D)][(-D][oX)]

[SpaceMouse]

IF you want a case of throwing good money after bad. Take a look at Lil Guy in my signature. Purchased for $20 on eBay, Can do the 1/4 mile faster than a full-sized 389 GTO, and possibly getting the can motor out of my son's Hogwarts Express. If I can make the can work, then it's DCC all the way Baby. If it sits on the layout, it's going to do some work. I already installed Kaydee's front and rear.

[METRO]

I do contend that it would be possible to make a Tyco a quality model, just with lots of work and money. I've done it with Model Power RS-2s before the P1K models were avalible. It's just not something I would ever suggest unless it's someone's last opertunity. In this day and age, it's very likely that any reasonably popular prototype will be brought out as a quality plastic model at some point so rebuilding and detailing the old Tyco/Model Power/IHC locomotives just doesn't make the sense it used to.

~METRO

[Paul3]

DigitalGriffin wrote:

QUOTE: I've noticed a trend. Whenever a newbee ask how to fix/restore/convert a TYCO train the most common reply is, "It's junk" or something of that nature.

Um, maybe because they are junk?

QUOTE: I will relent, they are noisy, rough running, and prone to breakdown, and burnout. But slamming TYCO is not what the poster asked for.

(sarcasm) My goodness, just because their products were absolutely the worst electrified thing on two HO rails, why-oh-why would anybody slam Tyco? (/sarcasm)

QUOTE: A lot of us had child hood memories tied up in TYCO as they were our first trains. So they hold a great deal of sentimental value even if they are "cheap toys"

Hey, I had a lot of these junkers when I was a kid. My "sentimental" memories of these include derailments, jerky operation, low tonnage rates, lightspeed top speed ("No, no, lightspeed's too slow...We'll have to go right to Ludicrous speed!"), and the overall worst looking engines that I had. These "treasures" of mine are loose in a cardboard box in my basement. I'd bury them, but I don't want to contaminate the earth.

QUOTE: Hey the early lionel's were junk compared to today's O scale engines. Yet look at what they are worth because of their sentimental value.

You must be joking. Fifty year old Lionel locos still work. 20 year old Tycos...it's a 50-50 chance. Old Lionel has value, not just because it's old, but because it still works well. Tyco's, even when new, were junk out of the box.

QUOTE: Perhaps a better suggestion would be to look at possible alternatives if they don't have sentimental value to these pieces.

Strangely enough, that's what most people are saying. Stay away from Tyco, they aren't worth the effort.

QUOTE: Junk PAH! If it makes you happy, do it!

But that's the problem with Tyco. They don't make people happy, they make people frustrated. I wonder how many people have quite the hobby prematurely because of these terrible Tyco products? I know my next door neighbor went back to American Flyer when he tried out HO Tyco.

T-Y-C-O = J-U-N-K

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DigitalGriffin

Greetings all,

I've noticed a trend. Whenever a newbee ask how to fix/restore/convert a TYCO train the most common reply is, "It's junk" or something of that nature.

I will relent, they are noisy, rough running, and prone to breakdown, and burnout. But slamming TYCO is not what the poster asked for.

A lot of us had child hood memories tied up in TYCO as they were our first trains. So they hold a great deal of sentimental value even if they are "cheap toys" Hey the early lionel's were junk compared to today's O scale engines. Yet look at what they are worth because of their sentimental value.

Perhaps a better suggestion would be to look at possible alternatives if they don't have sentimental value to these pieces.

(BTW: I have plan on having my old TYCO Golden Eagle and Spirit of 76' set carefully hidden on my new layout for sentimental reasons...maybe in the RIP or roundhouse.)

Junk PAH! If it makes you happy, do it!

Not trying to start a flame war here, it's just food for thought for those who insist on poo-pooing the idea.

~Don

I wholeheartedly agree with you Don about Tyco. I for one have many pieces of Tyco products,along with the other manufacturers:Athearn,MDC (roundhoude),Walthers and the like .If i see someone selling a Tyco train set,or bits and pieces of it i'm going to buy it. So big deal if the unit may break down........who cares,i can take that locomotive and make it into a non-powered unit and run it with my other equipment. I too personally dont want to start a flame going on here either,but who the heck are you people to tell someone that Tyco is bad. If you want to know what is bad,whats with the RTR freight cars and locomotives with plastic handrails. To me,that stuff is junk and should have NEVER been placed on the market.Its a "lazy mans" version of putting it together. No wonder I have stopped buying freight cars and locomotives. I'm sick of seeing this ready to run crap. I've been a modeler for 31 years,and I've never seen such garbage on the market now than I care to think about. Its a pretty bad situation, when you have to tell your favorite hobby shop owner, that you have stopped buying MR stuff,due to the RTR that is out there,and you cant find kits any more that you like. As for the Tyco,I'll continue to buy it.I grew up with it,and I want as much of the stuff as I can get,cause I like the products. If there are people who say that they are modelers,then what are you doing buying a rtr product. Key word..... 'Modeler".....a person who "puts things together."
Theres my [2c]. Thank-you

[jwr_1986]

I try to follow the thought ifyou can't say something constructive don't say anything approach. I will say however that tyco is the reason for my thinking HO were toys and lionel was the good stuff when I was younger. My neighbor too. I still can't convince him that anything made out of plastic is worth while. So the real legacy of Tyco is that of scaring away modelers. We have a Tyco dual pack at the club that we were using to run some loops for a coal mine and that pack is directly responsible for my false belief that N scale couldn't run slow. I cahnged the pack to a decent one and it runs great. So basically there are more constructive ways to say some of the things that have been said but perhaps asking the person whether the loco has sentimental value could save everyone a lot of trouble. My 2 cents worth.

Jesse

[Don Gibson]

ONE of the chacteristic of humankind is we ALL are intolerant about something,. and The big diierence in people is WHAT they are intolerant of. WHERE we draw the line, so to speak.

That being said, i agree with you. We should have a category for
'Toy's with Sentimental value' - Perhaps there's a spot for the 'Raggity Anne's ' of this world.

[jsoderq]

First, not all Tyco is created equally. Tyco and Mantua flipped back and forth between owners and who owned what at which time.
Now the bad Tyco which caused many modelers to bail out were the single power truck cheaply made train set stuff like the Chattanooga Choo choo and silver steark and the like.
What I see recently is a lot of people coming by new or returning to modeling asking questions about what to buy - dcc etc. and Tyco is not the best place to go in this situation. I'm sure a lot of people see this stuff cheaply at train shows and figure they can take it home and make a model railroad out of it. So, if you like the Tyco you have - fine, but don't build it up as something it is not or recommend it to somebody just getting their feet wet.

[Jetrock]

Liking Tyco is kind of like liking McDonald's. I doubt anyone who eats at McDonald's doubts that the food there is not the best in the world, and that it isn't the healthiest for you, but they eat it anyway because McDonald's is everywhere and it's cheap and filling and they're used to it.

Modifying a Tyco locomotive to run like a champ is kind of like trying to dress up a McDonald's happy meal to taste like a gourmet meal. I suppose you *could* do it, if you really wanted to, but if you want a gourmet meal, why not either (a) buy a gourmet meal, or (b) prepare your own gourmet meal?

If you can't afford a gourmet meal, that's fine, not everyone can. If you don't have the skill to prepare a gourmet meal, that's fine, not everyone has the skill. But there is no reason to expect that McDonald's food will turn into a gourmet meal merely because you can't afford it or aren't a good cook.

McDonald's is what it is. Tyco is what it is. It's not the only thing out there, nor is it the cheapest or the best. You can choose it if you want to, or go elsewhere--just try not to assume that it is something it isn't.

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jetrock

Liking Tyco is kind of like liking McDonald's. I doubt anyone who eats at McDonald's doubts that the food there is not the best in the world, and that it isn't the healthiest for you, but they eat it anyway because McDonald's is everywhere and it's cheap and filling and they're used to it.

Modifying a Tyco locomotive to run like a champ is kind of like trying to dress up a McDonald's happy meal to taste like a gourmet meal. I suppose you *could* do it, if you really wanted to, but if you want a gourmet meal, why not either (a) buy a gourmet meal, or (b) prepare your own gourmet meal?

If you can't afford a gourmet meal, that's fine, not everyone can. If you don't have the skill to prepare a gourmet meal, that's fine, not everyone has the skill. But there is no reason to expect that McDonald's food will turn into a gourmet meal merely because you can't afford it or aren't a good cook.

McDonald's is what it is. Tyco is what it is. It's not the only thing out there, nor is it the cheapest or the best. You can choose it if you want to, or go elsewhere--just try not to assume that it is something it isn't.

Good 'ol Jetrock. Always puts things in prespective. [:)]

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Paul3

QUOTE: Junk PAH! If it makes you happy, do it!

But that's the problem with Tyco. They don't make people happy, they make people frustrated. I wonder how many people have quite the hobby prematurely because of these terrible Tyco products? I know my next door neighbor went back to American Flyer when he tried out HO Tyco.

Ah good to see that Tyco still continues to serve.[:D][:D] Anything that gets you into S scale can't be all bad.

While they may be junk to you, to me they are Junque. I treasure mine for purely sentimental reasons, along with my Atlas station, my Atlas lumberyard, and my Atlas signal tower. Oh and don't forget my brass track with the fiberboard ties. They may not be state of the art but they were what I started with. If I were still in HO they would be on the layout somewhere.

Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

Everyone has their opinion on Tyco. I had to try one because I got it cheap. Ran poorly right out of the box and burned out a short time later. Wasn't worth the effort to try to repair it or even send it in for warranty. But I still found a place for it on my layout!

I'm thinking of a train wreck scene on my new layout, and am sure this will be a likely candidate for modeling it.

[dragenrider]

Go Jetrock!! That's an excellent comparison! Well said, well said. Bravo! [bow]

Though I still think Tyco is junk, I, too, will admit to trying to fix one up for sentimental reasons. [C=:-)]

[Virginian]

No. I will not stop running Tyco into the ground until all those people who keep putting up those dam#ed silver Virginian hoppers on eBay and acting like they are worth more than 50 cents, and not indicating that they are Tyco brand in the title line, quit it. Fair is fair, and it's my turn.
I won't even metion the dam*ed blue and yellow VGN cabeese and engines.
Tyco made cheap junk. If you modify it so it runs good, it isn't Tyco anymore. Same hold true for a lot of old Bachmann and LL stuff. They got better; Tyco as a railroad model builder died. My mother said that if you can't say something good about the dead then don't say anything. So I will just say they are dead; good.

[Anonymous]

While I will admit that Tyco engines are very poor runners, they are what brought me onto this hobby 35 years ago. Heck, I did not even know Athearn exixted until I was about ten years old and got to go to a legitimate full hobby shop in Memphis. About half of my rolling stock (400+) is RTR Tyco, AHM, Lifelike, Roco, etc. I have upgraded everything with Kadee's, metal wheels. metal handrails, stirrup steps. I have noticed that a lot of the cars from different manufacturers are from the same molds. I have made most of the old engines into dummies for sound installation. They may be junk ,but for some of us that is all we had available growing up! Remeber that some of us are in this hobby using a few skills and hard work rather than our checkbook!

[TurboOne]

I think many here missed the point Don was making. When a newbie returns to the hobby, as I did just 3 short months ago, when they ask a question about anything in the train world, I think its best to remember they are just comig back for a reason. They like trains. I didn't know my 35 year old trains weren't worth a lot of money, everything else I collected back then is worth more, why not trains? I remember going to the hobby shops as a teenager, long hair, and all, and having a bunch of stuffy old farts not even talk to me, or answer questions, they would just laugh about my trains. Kinda of sounds like how some people greet new people here. I left trains for 25 years due to lack of help by caring people. Even when I returned to the hobby, many of the club members were new versions of the stuffy old farts, mean and uncaring. A few were awesome, so I stuck long enough to find this website.
I would think we would want all the new people we can get, there just isn't enough interest in trains in comparision to video games, RC cars and planes and all the other choices people can make.

Why not just ask if the piece has a sentimental value, and have the newbies check out a local train show, or try and find a good LHS, or good train club. Many on this forum were and still are extremely helpful and nice. Yes I still have my old crappy tyco cars, and I have many cheap billboard boxcars. I now have nickel silver track, adding NS turnouts, have benchwork and a real layout being built, and some nice engines. Some new, and some purchased from club members. But to answer that their train is junk, throw it away, come on, how are you helping them ?

Personally, I think anyone that pays $400 for a toy is crazy. That doesn't mean I won't buy that BLI cab forward someday. But the manufacturers and rivet counters have changed the hobby. Why do we have to have "limited runs" and preorders. Telling a newbie that their train isn't good enough is just wrong. Teach them by showing them the differences. When I went 150 miles to allied trains in Los Angeles, the salesman put two DCC engines on the track, and showed what DCC could do. The sound was AWESOME, the smoke was INCREDIBLE, the things he could make those trains do we FANTASTIC. But the DCC unit was $550, and each engine was $400. So for only $1400 I could do it to. I now have a DCC and 3 inexpensive locos to play with. I returned so my kids could get into trains, and have fun.

The bottom line is let everyone have fun. Tell them welcome back to trains, if you really want is new check out different websites, and ask questions. Be nice to them, show them the differences, and let them decide.

Heck, my kids favorite trains are Thomas. If LHS were smart, they all would have a Thomas setup and lots of sets in there stores. Get em hooked, and reel them in. That makes business sense, and would allow the hobby to grow.

Tim [2c][2c] my 4c worth. [:D][:D]

[Anonymous]

Yea, it 's a test to see how good you can make it work.

[Anonymous]

Hey TurboOne, I guess you could say Tyco was the Thomas the Tank Engine of our day. Tyco and the like are responsible for getting many of my age into the hobby.

[Anonymous]

Tyco has its place, I agree it is not what we need to turn newcomers on to, they will get discouraged when thier trains dont run well and break down. However, Tyco does have value as collectors items. Whenever I come accross and old Tyco or Varney car or engine in a box i bought on ebay or at a train show. It goes right back up on ebay. Heck I even sold an old Tyco crane for $15.50.

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: Personally, I think anyone that pays $400 for a toy is crazy.

Tell that to anyone who has bought a JetSki, quad-runner, bass boat, pool table, antique firearms or other weapons, high-definition plasma TV, sportscar, or any of the myriad of "toys" that cost plenty more than $400. Plenty of hobbies are more expensive than model railroading.

But I don't think anyone here insists that folks new to the hobby MUST buy nothing but BLI cab-forwards, either. I don't own any--the most I have paid for an engine is $140 (for brass) and I am still using DC rather than DCC.

Some folks may be a bit brusque in their approach, but generally, the typical person who logs on and asks how to fix up their old Tyco gets a predictable set of responses: Don't bother, buy a halfway-decent new engine instead--an Athearn or Bachmann or P2K, typically at a cost of $100 or less. Not exactly breaking the bank, and not exactly bad advice, either.

Someone new to model railroading probably does not have the skills to upgrade their Tyco's motor, etcetera--not only is someone advised to do that probably going to get frustrated and quit, they're also ruining their precious childhood toy instead of just letting it sit on a special place on the shelf. But by spending about as much as they'd spend on a new motor, tools, etcetera, they could have a relatively inexpensive but new and decent-running engine--which seems to be the main suggestion put forward from those responding to the Tyco owners.

[BentnoseWillie]

I still have one Tyco - on the shelf, where it belongs. The cars are servicable for a beginner and available cheap, but trying to get the engines to run at all is at best an exercise in nostalgia, at worst an exercise in frustration. Trying to convert any Tyco locomotive to DCC is a waste of money and time.

These engines are not a bargain at any price except as reminders of a childhood train set. You can buy better engines on the used HO market just as economically, such as older Athearn models which you can actually get parts for and get running very well with less effort than the average Tyco will take to get running at all, and the Tyco will never run as well as the Athearn or any other engine with full power pickup and a decent motor..

I call Tyco engines JUNK because they are Junk. They were JUNK when they were brand new, and 20 years of aging won't do anything but make them worse. Recommending that someone try to resurrect one of these dreadful machines is an excellent way to ensure that they get frustrated early on and drop the hobby altogether.

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BentnoseWillie

I still have one Tyco - on the shelf, where it belongs. The cars are servicable for a beginner and available cheap, but trying to get the engines to run at all is at best an exercise in nostalgia, at worst an exercise in frustration. Trying to convert any Tyco locomotive to DCC is a waste of money and time.

These engines are not a bargain at any price except as reminders of a childhood train set. You can buy better engines on the used HO market just as economically, such as older Athearn models which you can actually get parts for and get running very well with less effort than the average Tyco will take to get running at all, and the Tyco will never run as well as the Athearn or any other engine with full power pickup and a decent motor..

I call Tyco engines JUNK because they are Junk. They were JUNK when they were brand new, and 20 years of aging won't do anything but make them worse. Recommending that someone try to resurrect one of these dreadful machines is an excellent way to ensure that they get frustrated early on and drop the hobby altogether.

Can't argue with that! As I mentioned previously, if a modeler really likes an "unusual paint scheme" that's on a Tyco loco, it's best that he or she salvage the shell and put it on an Athearn or Proto drive. Scrap the Tyco motors and trucks.

For those of you that are under 30, you may not be aware but the Tyco motor in many of those locomotives was the same one used in the old Tyco racing cars sets. They weren't designed to pull loads at realistic speeds.

Some posters have been mentioning price, but again P1K, P2K and Athearn BB units are selling "dirt cheap" at various internet dealers. Proto 1000 locomotives are now available from $19 to $30 new!

As for Tyco freight cars, for me, the one that has "potential" is the 50ft. Flat with the wooden deck. The prototype version of that car was longer. I have one, which I'm going to convert into a M.O.W car for my diesel facility. It was part of a 1973 set my dad bought me back then so I do want to keep it.

[Anonymous]

I have had a tyco for about 25 years about and she still runs, however i was running her the other day and she stoped.The motor was still running but she wasn't moving.The little gear lapped out on the shaft. Maybe just a near gear???