what is there to setting up a signal system...

[streettrains]

Just am curious, what it takes to set up a signal system? am I getting into something that is way over my head? Or would add alittle more realism to my layout?

[ndbprr]

Well there are a couple of issues or more that need to be thought through.
1. What method will you use to determine a train is in a given block? It varies with DC or DCC.
2. How will you relate that information to a signal? Read what circuitry will you use.
3. Is your railroad bidirectional? If so the circuitry is slightly more complex but it needs to be able to tell which way the train is coming from.
4. Are you just going to use block detection or will you signal each turnout?

Plan on the wiring being probably taice as much as for the railroad. It is doable but it will take time and is probably one of the last things to do.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GrandFunkRailroad

Just am curious, what it takes to set up a signal system? ] am I getting into something that is way over my head? Or would add alittle more realism to my layout?

Money - about $50 block.*
NO.
Big Time1.

*Because EACH BLOCK requires a detector + controller and 2 signals (one for each direction).

[retsignalmtr]

i'm a retired signal maintainer. everyone who knows me says that i must have working signals on my layout. there are two ways i can do it. i'm installing dcc on my layout so i could use it to operate the signals with decoders. or i can use block occupancy detectors like the ones from dallee electronics. it detects current being drawn by a locomotive in a block and operates a relay which can control other relays. the bo detectors are about $28 each. i plan on building a small push button ctc panel. it will have traffic direction for bi-directional control. i'm only going to have about 10 signals and the longest train will be about 12 cars with 2 locos .

[streettrains]

still think I am getting in over my head.. or my brain is just overloaded..

even though I think it would be cool..

are there any books or sites that could help me?

[Don Gibson]

The Dallee sysytem uses relays and as it comes will detect current (running engines) but not occupancy. The ISS system will detect occupancy .

OCCUPANCY:Such as a stopped train or cars.

http://www.integratedsignalsystems.com/Default.htm

[randybc2003]

It depends on weather you have DC or DCC. Also, what you wi***o do for yourself, what you get somebody else to do, and what kind of signaling you employ.
Check out Bruce Chubb's articles in MR. Also, see if you can get Pete Thorn's old books. Detection can be by Twin-T, (Bruce Chub's ) DCC Optomised Dector, pre-built electronics packages from outfilts like Digitrax, IR reflection, or Light Obstruction. I have seen the latter used very effectivly in portable and modular layouts. The fellows built the system themselves (althoug they didn't work quite prototypical). Oregon Rail Supply sells signal heads for $10 ea., Tomar sells pre-built brass semaphore for $50 ea. [:P][:P][:P]
Myself - I am designing and building a light sensitive train order system (2 block signals - one each direction at a station) for a module. No complicated interconnection with other section. A train approaches, it CLEARs to the set status. Of course, that was before I saw the TOMAR signals.
Check out "TETON SHORT LINE" on the web., and old (less than 5 years I think) MR for a series of articles on detection, logic, and driving.
Don't let the above war stories frighten you!!! [:D]

[leighant]

I recall 30 years ago Model Railroader had an article about how to set up a completely realistic signal system with no complicated electrical stuff.

It had a model of signals with signal maintainers splicing wires. A model of a prototype signal system as it appeared when being repaired and not working!

Wonder if that was in an April issue.

[dinwitty]

I bought some signal device that worked for one block, it even had
yellow signal sends, had detector included in it, and leads for red/yellow/green signals both directions, and was epoxied all togther like IC circuits are.

I don't know if their still available.
I think there are books on electronics and signaling.
Personally, I like Bruce Chubbs detector and signal work.
Any DC detector should work with DCC.
You don't need directional detection, the prototype doesnt have that luxery, doing that requires some wiring and electrical/electronics logic.
Just be ready to do some wiring and lots of learning.

[simon1966]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dinwitty


Personally, I like Bruce Chubbs detector and signal work.
Any DC detector should work with DCC.

Is there a web site for Bruce Chubb? Are his detectors available for sale?

[DMNolan]

Here is the web site for JLC Enterprises (CMRI, Bruce Chubb's system).

http://www.jlcenterprises.net/

You can buy and assemble the boards yourself to save money or buy assembled boards. I bought assembled boards first to make sure my system was working and plan to assemble the boards in the future. The system works and there is allot of ways to get support if you need help.

Check out the Yahoo support group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CMRI_Users/

I also use signals from Integrated Signal Systems. http://www.integratedsignalsystems.com/


An operating signal system was one of my main goals and adds allot to the operation possibilities.

[AntonioFP45]

I did a bit of surfing a while back and saw that Digitrax offers, what appears to be, easy to install / use signal modules. I'm interested in using 3 aspect signals as well as dwarfs.

[MisterBeasley]

First, you need to ask yourself the purpose of your signal system. If you want real prototype-like signalling, then you do need block detectors, and the whole thing can be quite complex. On the other hand, if all you really want is signals that change colors, then you may really only need turnout indicators. These are much simpler, particularly if your switch machines already have auxiliary contacts on them. I've wired a lot of turnouts with cheap relays in parallel, because they cost less than getting the aux contacts for twin-coil machines.

I have a number of turnouts down in my subway tunnels, so it's impossible to see them directly. I can, however, see most of the signals from the surface, so I can use them to tell the position of the turnout even though I can't see the points. My control panel has holes drilled for the indicator LEDs, which will be wired in parallel with the signals when I get around to it.

I really like signals. I think they add a lot to a layout. With LEDs, they are now much more reliable than the old incandescent models. There are a lot of different types of signals available, too, so you can have variety of signal types on your layout.

[beegle55]

If you use a traditional power pack like myself it's no problem to hook up signals or any other type of accesory. Not sure if I ever will actually understand or want to convert to DCC. Sounds pretty cool though! Good luck!

[ndbprr]

I prefer to keep signals as a separate system. This can be done using infrared transistors that shoot a beam of IR light across the track to a second transistor that receives it. when the beam is broken it can be used with ttl circuits to light signals very easily. You can also use CDS sensors between the rails that sense light and dark like when something passes over it. Add on contacts on switch machnes will run turnout signals. My logic is that if one system goes down by keeping track power and signals separate I can rule out the other immediately.

[cwclark]

check this out....everything you'll need ... www.dallee.com

[nbrodar]

Are you running DCC or DC?

I run DC and simply wired my signals to show the track polarity in the next block and the position of the turnouts. I scratchbuild the signals from styrene tube and IHC signal heads - cost about 5 bucks a signal.

Nick

[Anonymous]

A question close to my heart!
But, before I look at electronics and parts what signal system should I use? CTC, an interlocking or train order... or?
Can anyone at least tell me where to look please?
Just as a loose guide... I'm looking at CNW crossing UP at grade (UP probably arrived last) with a shortline/industrial link to one side. 1980s West (somewhere) of Chicago. Just for fun there will be road grade crossing(s) and Amtrak run through.
HELP!
PLEASE?
Thanks in advance... and thanks GrandFunkRailroad for the piggyback for my question.

[tomikawaTT]

The short coal-hauler that's part of my layout uses a working signaling system that is entirely prototypical - staff and ticket, with working lower-quadrant semaphores. No detectors, only rotary switches on the panel which electrically interlock the track circuits as well as operate (or lock) the signals. The ticket (1/4 inch stereo plug) has to be inserted into its socket before the approach and home signals can be cleared, and into the socket at the next station before a start signal can be cleared. Tickets for different stretches of main have different connections within the plug, so the plug for one will not clear the circuits for another. Using only two of the three possible connections gives three possible combinations, which is perfect, since I have three single track sections to protect.

[BigRusty]

Long ago and far away my last layout was fully signalled. I used a block detection system that I believe was sponsored by the NMRA. Because it was double tracked I didn't have to worry about direction. It had three color mast signals which showed a green aspect when the track was clear, red when it was occupied, and yellow when the block ahead was occupied. It is a great pleasure to watch the signals change as the train proceeds along from red to yellow to green. The device had a relay with multiple contacts so I had signals on my control panel and a dead section before each signal that stopped the train automatically on Red. I could run 7 trains on a 12 block railroad without touching a rheostat. It was great fun when showing it off.

[Don Gibson]

what is there to setting up a signal system?... A. Primarily Money for:
.
1.HARDWARE: be it a LED lit signal or Semaphor - approx $25 each - up.
a. ONE single direction. b. TWO for bi-directional running.

2. ACTUATOR : Software to turn on/off lights; Motor for Semaphor.

3. DETECTOR : To sense occuupancy.

4. SOFTWARE: To 'Sequence' or 'Daisy-Chain signals realistically
.
TWO ASPECT (R)(G) cheaper than THREE
ASPECT due to combining RG to get Amber.

if you want CTC/Dispatching panels and control, this involves additional expense.

[jxtrrx]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BigRusty

Long ago and far away my last layout was fully signalled. I used a block detection system that I believe was sponsored by the NMRA. Because it was double tracked I didn't have to worry about direction. It had three color mast signals which showed a green aspect when the track was clear, red when it was occupied, and yellow when the block ahead was occupied. It is a great pleasure to watch the signals change as the train proceeds along from red to yellow to green. The device had a relay with multiple contacts so I had signals on my control panel and a dead section before each signal that stopped the train automatically on Red. I could run 7 trains on a 12 block railroad without touching a rheostat. It was great fun when showing it off.

Wow! Now THAT is cool.

[Anonymous]

I have a traditional cab control layout and i have a simple signal system. Its controlled from my cab stations just like traditional dispatching system. There are more advanced now, its just how much time and money you want to spend.[:)]