Train Show Strategies

[SpaceMouse]

I've never been to a train show, but I've been to a lot of gun shows. They have been very large, crowded and overwhelming.

I get the feeling that the train show I'm going to in Altoona is going to be fairly small. It is being held in a fire hall.

When I go to gun shows I have a strategy. I go there with purpose. However, since I don't know what to expect, I have no strategy other than hoping to find some reasonably priced Harry Potter passenger cars.

What is your strategy in attending a trains show?

[Anonymous]

Same as a gun show. Get there early and preferably before the gates open. The bargains go quickly.

Karl

ps. I see you're from Indiana. I lived near Kittanning before moving South.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by karlp635

Same as a gun show. Get there early and preferably before the gates open. The bargains go quickly.

Karl

ps. I see you're from Indiana. I lived near Kittanning before moving South.

Looking for bargains assumes I know what to look for. Do you look for locos, trains, models, scenery, tools, books? When you look for these things, there has to be more to it than price.

My mom grew up in Kittanining. I was born and raised in CA. I applied all around the country to universisties for my PhD program and settled on Indiana University of Pennsylvania. When I told my mother where I was going, without looking up from the dishes, she said, "Oh, I went there." I had made no associaton between Kittanining and Indiana as it was clear across the country.

[steveblackledge]

Get there early or miss that bargain, OR if you can't get there till nearly closing time you might be able to hagle for a bargain

[vsmith]

I use what I call my Swap Meet Metality, learned from many visits to the Pomona car swap mets looking for bike parts.

Go early, when you see that one of a kind rare item that you been looking for BUY IT, try to haggle the price if you can, most wont if its a real goody.

The mistake is to say "OK this guy has it, lets see if anyone else does" and go wandering around looking for a better deal. 99% of the time, no one else will have it, and when you go back to pick it up it will be long gone!

Last GATS I was at I saw a HOn30 loco and 3 car set for sale for a screaming deal, I walked away to "think about it" when i returned there were two guys pawing all over them, luckily they put it down and turned to the other bench, I snatched it right up!!! Almost lost that deal!

[shawn-118]

Try this one at larger shows:

Take a buddy and have a set of those IRF radio's, one goes one way the other the other way, and if you see something that the other is looking for or find a great deal you can ask him if he wants it. You cover more area and can get more deals instead of missing them. I've tried this at the Edmonton and Vancouver train shows last year it saved a lot of time and we got some great deals that we might have missed.

Another is to shop first look at the layouts second, if not you could find yourself missing the car that you needed.

Hope this helps Shawn.

[rrinker]

First thing, is to know WHAT you are looking for, and how much it costs, and how much you are willing to pay. Do NOT go in all wide-eyed looking at everything - or if you do, make sure you don't have a lot of money on you.

If you see something you need/want, and the price is within what you are willing to pay, then buy it. DO not wait, it probably won't be there when you come back. The problem of course, is thatif you see and buy a $100 loco from some guy for $50, a dozen tables away will be the same loco for $45. But if you DON'T grab the bargain it will be the ONLY one being offered, and will, of course, be gone when you come back.
DO not be afraid to pick up some things and take them out to your car, and come back in. The shows I've been at all offer some sort of hand stamping or ticket stub so you can come back in - a lot better than carrying around a box of flex track!
If there is nothing specific that I'm after, I will walk the entire show and then come back to the items that caught my interest.
Do not be afraid to haggle. At one of the Fall shows I picked up over $100 of track, turnouts and flex, and ended up getting an additional 10% off. Bottom line was I ended up paying $2 a section for Atlas Code 83 flex, and $8 each for Code 83 #6 turnouts. Plus no shipping and no tax - you can't come close even with Standard or the other mail order places.

Also - keep a small notebook with a list of the items you already own, type of car/loco, road name, road number, etc. so you don't buy duplicates! Might seem impossible when you only have a handful of items, but soon you will NEVER remember everything you have.

--Randy

[johncolley]

Make two lists: Needs, and Wants. Go through all the vendor tables first, and see how many things on your lists you can get. After that, take a beverage/potty break then enjoy the operating layouts or go back to any particular vendors you want. Do your homework on your lists so you know what is a good price and what is a ripoff. Test run any motive power before you buy. Enjoy the day!

[Anonymous]

I agree about the notebook idea - I usually write down reference numbers for anything I'm particularly looking for - in fact I do this all the time - my PDA/cellphone has whole lists of assorted part numbers that I'm looking out for as "memo" files. Often you'll find "bins" of assorted bits and pieces, which are the best hunting grounds for parts for older models and/or spares that are otherwise unavailable.

I'd say the secrets to show are twofold - know what you're buying and be prepared to haggle. You can often get small discounts that will add up over time with this method - the trick seems to be to be polite, just ask if that's the absolute minimum they'll take. If they ask you to name a price on an unmarked item (as one of my LHS does on some used items) pitch it low - you may well get lucky. Ebay is a good place to look in order to find "bottom prices" - you'll probably pay more but it's a good place to start negotiating. Don't mention ebay either - some sellers get really cranky about it and you won't get anywhere. I've had bargains such as mint, boxed (used) Fleischmann coaches for less than half current retail price using this technique. Also, if you see an item at a very attractive price that you do want (and can afford), don't think about it - buy it. By the time you come back it will have gone. Good luck and good hunting!

[IRONROOSTER]

My appproach is go through and look at everything first, then go back and buy things that caught my interest based on how much I can spend. I guess I am more relaxed about it, because I have quite a few kits yet to build and have more cars and locos than I can use on my current layout, so if I don't get anything I still enjoy the looking and the layouts.

Enjoy
Paul

[SpaceMouse]

Are there any "bargains" to avoid. At computer shows there are theings that look like really good deals but turn out to be junk. Are there any brands or other types of things to avoid. I know just enough about this stuff to be a real sucker.

[Anonymous]

I have THREE shows I am looking at upcoming in the next 45 days.

Here is my battle plan:

1- Ignore the layouts and displays, we will look at them later

2- start at the tables in one corner and work against the crowd's movements. What you dont want is the feeling of being "herded" down the table by 5 people breathing down your neck.

3- Have a wishlist and the money to cover it.

4- See a desired item, inspect it and try to haggle. If you have it in your hand what is also on your wish list buy it right then.

5- work on the wish list BEFORE you go to the show. Do it carefully. Try to leave out paints, brushes and etcera. You can get those at the hobby shop.

6- Greet the person at the table and be nice even if you are not the least interested in the superduper internet controlled thisawhatis it that costs really cheap. (If it was really that good everyone would have it)

7- research prices for the items you have on your list. Know if those Athearn boxcars are worth 25 dollars apeice unassembled. (you laugh...)

8- understand that some shady dealers will talk loud, long and dazzle the customer into buying technology that went out of fashion in the 80's and leave it to them to learn that it is not the "spectrum super duper DCC ready unit" that they really were looking for.

Customer eyes 40 year old AHM steamer... price 200-

Dealer eyes customer and evaluates sucker factor while preparing a verbal sales patch filled with how EASY and CHEAP to get DCC and sound into it... usually reinforced by a SUPER LOUD sound engine chugging and whistling back and forth on the 3 foot track.

Kinda hard to do business... sorta like sitting a showroom new car and smelling the seductive leather and fragrance they seem to spray in those things while the salesman works a verbal narrative about how comfortable and powerful the car is....

Admit to yourself these two things:

1- You can hire a fleet of trucks and have as much money as Bill Gates but you will NEVER buy EVERYTHING that you ever want, previously wanted as a kid or will want a year from now in a train show.

2- Try to stay focused on that list you made up. Once you traveled the tables and perhaps gotten one or several items on that list and spent your money... then it's time to visit the show.

Try to park close to the door. You will want to store your acquired loot in the vehicle instead of hauling it about the building several times (or miles) on your feet.

Keep the credit card at home. Some dealers have ability to "call in" the card by cell phone but they are a security risk. If you wi***o spend on credit card, use it at your local hobby shop where at least you can get exactly what you want.

Save some money for your lunch or dinner. Trust me all that walking about will work up an appetite. PUT the trains in your vehicles before you go eat. Ketchup and Mustard does not lube that 400 dollar gem of a steam engine very well.

People never get onto hands and knees. They only do this to root through boxes of kits that everyone knows is retired or discontinued. Same with books.

Test that locomotive BEFORE buying it. Dont let them simply apply full throttle and say wow it runs like a gem!

Make them move it forward backwards, slow, fast and listen for any problems... watch for duck walking and other issues that reveal potential issues.

If you spot something that is not on your list and you suddenly feel as if the entire show is conspiring to snatch it away from you after you have waited 20 years to get such a item then buy it. Sometimes the heart can be made happy this way.

Even if you did not spend any money take the time to go thru everything. Dont bother to look at the computers and software... they are years out of date. Unless it is a railroad related software you can understand.

At any show there will be hats, shirts, coffee mugs and all that stuff. Avoid those areas as they take away from your time that you will need to visit the tables.

Brace yourself.. some of the tables will be crappy. Dealers will be mean and onery. Or worst of all that prized item you been watching all day get tossed into the box as it was spare parts good only for the parts bin.

Some of these dealers hauled the items all the way to the show to dispose of them. They are more motivated to make the sale closer to the end of day as they really dont want to carry that stuff back to rot for another year in thier store.

Keep a pair of 20's ready to "pull". If you are using one hand to show a pair of 20's as if seeking to determine if there is enough to buy the said item... the dealer will see the green and want it. It's crazy I know but I have bought stuff for 20 dollars that I know is worth 60 or more in the hobby shop.

If you think you will be buying another copy of a favorite freight car, jot the car number down. I really hate it when I sit wondering if I already have this exact car number on the layout.

Sometimes a item such as a building will catch your eye but the "glue spots" and missed paint spots will really be awful. Think about what you can do on the workbench with this item. It may be salvageable to your standards.

That one item painted in a really sick shade of green or garish pink deserves a .10 cent sticker. Tell the dealer you will spend alot of money repairing the color to your taste.

Another trick is to approach the table that contains the "Fountain of Youth" which is an item that you are willing to mortage your house, lands, job, spouse... everything including the soul to the devil ...*ahem dealer.... carefully....

Put on your poker face and dont indicate to the dealer of your great excitement in that one item. Simply pick up the worst looking cheapest bottle rocket you can find and work your way over towards the treasure.

Calmly haggle with the dealer that this bottle rocket cannot be all that good will he or she be willing to throw in this "junk" engine to make a sale? Perhaps at a reduced cost due to parts that may be needed or repairs at home?

Keep the junk part that you dont want in one hand. This contains your quivering excitement and overwhelming desire to purchase the mother lode of all things trainshow. You DONT want your body language to tip off the dealer.

If the dealer finds out that it is a coveted item then it is in thier power to try to complete the sale on THIER terms... not necessarily cheaply as you would like.

You will visit 7 out of 10 shows and feel ready to leave in 1 hour or less because nothing is there that you want. So try not to be too disappointed.

There will be screaming children roaming the place. Unattended and driven snorting wild raving stampeding cattle by bright colors and flashing toys. They are hazards to Navigation and should be given as much room as possible.

Thankfully that bright lego train flying down the track keeps them in one area.

That big and beautiful O scale smoker running around the track smoking up the place is a pleasure to watch and listen to. Just dont breathe too much of the fumes. I have seen 10 tables obscured by smoke from these locomotives as air circulation is not the best in some shows.

[SpaceMouse]

Wow! HighIron, thanks. You put a lot of work and thought into that answer.

Thanks everyone. Keep it coming. I'm taking notes.

Pair a twenties, Bottle rocket, park close. ketchup on $400 engine, notebook, go to the bathroom first.

[Anonymous]

Which show is that...Pinecroft? Every show I have been to is majority O scale with mabey 3 - 4 tables of HO. Railfest is the best show in the area, Pine croft would be second (for HO modelers) another good one is in smithfield or Huntingdon.
At Pinecroft last year I picked up an Atlas Gp38 Master Series for $49.00 and a couple of RTR cars for $10.00 each.

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Are there any "bargains" to avoid. At computer shows there are theings that look like really good deals but turn out to be junk. Are there any brands or other types of things to avoid. I know just enough about this stuff to be a real sucker.

Basically, the same junk you avoid elsewhere - Tyco and LifeLike train set junk, etc. If the show is anything like the ones around here, there will be PLENTY of dealers with BOXES full of old Tyco junk. They're at every show, with the same boxes of the same stuff. It pays to at least look though, my father in law picked up a couple of nice Bachmann Spectrum PRR passenger cars that were just sitting in a box like that alongside some Tyco junk.

--Randy

[underworld]

When possible.....I go early (before opening) and stay late. Staying late lets you possibly get some extra bargains from the people that didn't sell as much as they would have liked.

underworld

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxmu

Which show is that...Pinecroft? Every show I have been to is majority O scale with mabey 3 - 4 tables of HO. Railfest is the best show in the area, Pine croft would be second (for HO modelers) another good one is in smithfield or Huntingdon.
At Pinecroft last year I picked up an Atlas Gp38 Master Series for $49.00 and a couple of RTR cars for $10.00 each.

All I know is that it is Altoona on Sunday from 9-2 in a Firehouse. I have the directions from an email.

QUOTE: I 99 Altoona bypass go past the 17th ex. to pine croft ex. turn left after
ex. straight thu the light to a t in the road turn left 500 yds on the right
is the fire hall

[davekelly]

My strategy? To have a good time and hopefully find something I like. I agree that you should first scan the tables to see if there are things that you want and I agree that if you leave to see if anyone else has it cheaper than it will be gone and you won't find another. On the other hand if you get it, you'll find another a couple of tables away for 10 percent less. (I call this the 50-50-90 theory - something might be 50/50, but I'll get it wrong 90 percent of the time lol). When this happens to me - I am satisfied if I can say that the price I paid was what I was willing to pay for the item.

After checking out all the table - don't forget to look at the displays! Some of the displays are very inspiring and provide ideas for me to use - be it track plan, scenery or weathering. Also, before leaving - check out the tables that initially had no attraction for you - I always think it fun to look at other scales, eras etc just to see what is out there.

But bottom line - have fun.

[Anonymous]

Yes that is Pinecroft, not a big show , but there is a good bit of vendors there I will be there also mabey ill see you there!

[mcouvillion]

Hi Chip,

Never been to a train show! Wow, are you gonna spend a... Oops, have a good time. I prepare by making a list of what parts or cars I want/need. High Iron has an excellent plan of attack, so does rrinker. I usually make a quick pass by all the tables first, starting on one aisle and moving quickly and methodically down each row. If I see something that catches my eye, I grab it. If I'm interested but it is not on my list, I make a note of where it is and the price, and see if it is elsewhere at the show. After making the first full pass, I'll drop off the treasure in the trunk of the car and make a second, slow pass. This time I'm looking for specific parts or collectibles. If I still am interested (and can still afford) the stuff I was interested in but passed on the first pass, I'll go to where it was cheapest first, and try to find it and re-evaluate. Do I still want it? I usually pass all the tables at least three times at a show. I have been to several shows where I found absolutely nothing I wanted or needed. Hard to believe, but that money was burning a hole in my pocket and I still didn't spend it. After a while, you will learn what you want, what you need, and what you really need. You will know what prices are fair, what's a bargain, and what's a reamin'. Go and have fun! But, at a small show, don't expect to find loose Hogwart's coaches to add to your train. I'd be surprised if you found them at a major show within the next few years. They will eventually be there, at a price!

Mark C.

[Anonymous]

RE: the Hogwarts cars

I think there's a few ways to get these, depending on how much you're willing to invest. You might be lucky and find a dealer splitting sets up and selling the contents seperately (happens a lot on ebay over here - split an LGB set (for example) and the contents are worth far more than the set price). Other alternatives: Hornby also have Hogwarts stock, though $35 -$40 each (at current exchange rates) might not be acceptable. Bachmann UK have some gorgeous models of the BR Mk1 coaches (the base for the Hogwarts cars) for around the same price, though they don't offer the full paint scheme - you'd have to buy their standard BR Crimson examples and renumber them/change the BR logo for the Hogwarts one.

Final alternative would be to track down some cheap Mainline Mk1s - the Bachmann Hogwarts coaches look to be the old Mainline mouldings (Mainline and Bachmann were owned by the same company, Kader - Mainline were shut down in the mid-80s, some of the models re-appeared under the Bachmann name a few years later) so a few of these in BR Crimson (or repainted into same) would match the cars you already have and be a lot cheaper. Try hunting on www.ebay.co.uk or the US ebay site - you might find some on the US one but you'll definitely find some on the UK site. Don't pay more than £10 per coach - some go for crazy money to the collectors market but spending around this much should get you decent condition usable models. Hope this is of some help!

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 8500HPGASTURBINE

CSX,

I'll be there around 10. I will be the one with the white hat that says

TITLEIST


If ya see me say HI

I'll keep an eye out. If it is this cold, I'll have a knit hat that I'll stuff in a pocket.

[Anonymous]

right click to see

Thats me in the CSX shirt...go figure!!

[Anonymous]

Greenberg's Train, Toy and Hobby Show is in Cincinnati this weekend. I hope to pick up a DCC system, I will settle for a Bachman set for $50 to $70 but I would really rather get the Prodigy. Any advice on what I should expect to pay at a show? Should I even expct to see DCC sets at the show?

The NMRA convention is in Cincinnati this summer. Will the show held after the convention be bigger than the Greenberg show?

[Jetrock]

Train shows ARE kind of like gun shows. I'm not sure what PA gun shows are like, but I have been told that flea markets in the Midwest generally have more guns than gun shows in California--they're more like T-shirt, dream catcher, jewelry and beef jerky shows that incidentally sell a few guns.

But, like a gun show, or a computer show, you will need a little direct experience in order to learn what to go for and what to avoid. It takes a few shows before you start recognizing the dealer that always has the stuff you like, and which one is always horribly overpriced. Don't be afraid to burn a few bucks your first trip out.

Know how much you have to spend--take EXACTLY that much in cash, NO MORE and NO LESS. Don't even take your ATM card--some bigger shows get a local bank to send out a mobile van with an ATM on it.

Bring small bills to facilitate haggling. It's kind of silly to knock someone's price down from $12 to $8 and then hand them a $20.

Bring a shoulder bag or backpack, so you don't have to carry around a bunch of little plastic bags. And sometimes they don't have one to give you.

Bring a snack if you don't want to pay trade-show prices for food.

The first pass should be to look for the ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE list. Anything that isn't a MUST HAVE, wait until your second pass around the room.

The second pass is so you can pick up the real deals not on the MUST HAVE list, once you've had a chance to check everything out.

The third pass is to dig through boxes and stacks. There are often great little bits to be had in the bottom of those "$1 for anything" boxes, underneath all the Tyco junk, but you'll have to dig for it. Those vendors who label and organize everything neatly are going to charge you more for the privilege of not having to root for stuff.

If it's a club-sponsored show, the club may be selling off some of their own stuff at fire-sale prices. This can be a good place to pick up stuff like old issues of MODEL RAILROADER and TRAINS, or assorted low-cost odds and ends.

One thing I can recommend looking for: Relatively low-detail and low-cost structure kits for your daughter. It's not uncommon to find vendors selling building kits for $2-5, which vary from the dreadfully bad to the really OK but older stuff. If your daughter is still interested in building structures, it can be a good way to give her some low-cost practice--and a skilled builder can make those low-cost kits really shine. They make great kitbash fodder, too...

Don't worry too much about accumulating stuff you don't need. Keep it for a few years until you have enough to fill an eight-foot table, then go work a train show and sell it all off!

[Attaboy]

When I go to train shows I like to walk through the whole thing to what is there. Then go back and buy anything that caught my interest. If an item is the only one a vendor has and I can get a reasonable price, I buy it on the first trip through.

A really good train show for anyone close enough is the Great Scale Model Train Show at the Maryland state fairgrounds in Timonium. They put it on about four times a year and I make it a point to go at least once a year. It's a huge show, mostly HO and N scale I would say. But enough of other scales to satisfy most people. The next one is the weekend of April 23rd, I think. Check MR's upcoming events section, it is usually in there.

[Attaboy]

bukwrm, I've never been to one Greenbergs shows, but I was at the NMRA convention in Ft. Lauderdale in 2002 and the national train show the weekend after the convention was HUGE! Almost every manufacturer or vendor you can imagine was there. I'll be in Cinnci for this years convention too and really looking forward to it. Had a great time at the 2002 convention.

[Anonymous]

They are supposed to have the Timonium Md April the 16,17

[bikerraypa]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxmu

Yes that is Pinecroft, not a big show , but there is a good bit of vendors there I will be there also mabey ill see you there!

I didn't know about that one. I go to the Greenberg show at Monroeville, and last week was the Kittanning Township fire hall show, which is small but good. I might have to head for Altoona.

You guys are all local for me. I'm in East Brady.

Ray out

[Virginian]

Gads. A show strategy! I have never had one at a gun show or a train show. I just go to wander around and have fun. See if there is anything there I haven't seen before, and maybe stumble across something I need or want. I think last show I walked away with some IM 33" & 36" wheelsets, one of those wire strippers, and an adjustable clamp. Saw a lot of neat things though.
I don't think I could enjoy myself if I was on a mission. Not criticizing y'all that have a strategy, it just never occurred to me. I'll be the guy in the 'VT' hat that got there around 11 or 1 and just seems to bewandering around looking.