Train cosists with ordinary DC cab control

[hubbabubba2]

I’m using ordinary DC cab control but would like to run two or more locomotives together in a train. Can all of the locomotives be powered or must I use dummy locomotives along with one powered?

If I can run only powered locomotives, is there anything special I need to have in mind?

[Anonymous]

You can run powered units together, but hte problem is if they are geared differently you get some jerky operation. This realy bugs me, but others have said its ok and wont hurt the locos. I run mine together to figure out which ones go together and I keep them ready. This is another good reason to go with dcc as you can adjust each locos characteristics to your liking. So if you have to, get an entry level control set like atlas or bauchman.

Keep it fun.

John P.

[Blind Bruce]

To be on the safe side, you should have the locos matched for equal speed (within reason). An engine that is far different in speed will just cause problems.
BB

[AntonioFP45]

HubbaBubba,

Congrats on your first post! [#welcome][#welcome][#welcome][#welcome]

You didn't mention what scale you were in. There are many HO and N scalers on this particular forum.

For HO scale, modern Atlas, Stewart and Kato locomotives are reasonably close to each other as far as performance. Be aware though that some locomotives like switchers will have lower ger ratios for a low "top speed".

Athearn Genesis, Proto 1000 and Proto 2000 units run reasonablly well together.
Athearn Blue Boxes, on the other hand can run at 150 scale mph!

Even within the same brands locomotives can have slight performance differences in train consists. I have two P2K E7s that are smooth runners, yet one will run much further ahead than the other after cranking up the powerpack.

[cwclark]

hello and welcome...A lot of it is going to depend on the type of engines you use and the power pack....(I run DC also because it will cost me a fortune to convert to DCC) but anyway...to keep your trains from jerky operation you might want to invest in good locomotives like Athearn, Atlas, Proto 2000, BLI and the list goes on..if you purchase those cheap toy trains that's exactly what you are going to get...a bad running, jerky, locomotive....another investment is your power pack..I use the MRC tech 4 260 model...it has braking and momentum and they are powerful enough to operate up to 7 locomotives on one pack and are great for producing "constant Lighting" of the locomotives if they are equipped to do so...another item i like to use are Dallee hand held throttles...they are great because they have a teather wire that you can walk along with your train instead of standing in one spot to control your locomotives...your best bet if you are using DC is to wire your layout for "CAB Control"..Cab control will give you the ability to run a vast layout using two power packs instead of one...there are some kalmbach publications you should invest in to learn how to wire your layout...one is called "Easy Model Railroad Wiring" by Andy S. and another oldie but goodie is Linn Westcott's "How to wire your Model railroad"...learning the basics about "block wiring" and "cab control' will bring a lot of versatility to your railroad...Chuck

[trainboyH16-44]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45


Congrats on your first post! [#welcome][#welcome][#welcome][#welcome]
Athearn Genesis, Proto 1000 and Proto 2000 units run reasonablly well together.
Athearn Blue Boxes, on the other hand can run at 150 scale mph!

I don't know about that. My proto 2000 GP7s and GP9s run well together, but don't run at all well with my Proto 2000 RS10 or Proto 1000 C-Liner. You have to be careful about that. Personally, I don't mix consists of different locos together very often. If they are all the same, I think it looks better.
Trainboy

[gvdobler]

Real techy here.

Put both on the track together only not hooked together, about two feet apart. Run them at various speeds and see if one overtakes the other. If they run pretty close to the same then you know. If one runs over the other then it won't work too well.

Try one facing backwards and one forwards and then both facing the same way.

Jon - Las Vegas

[Robert Langford]

Years ago I bought two 2-8-0 s by Tyco. They were the ones with tender drive. I use them now together, because one had a motor failure so I removed the gears in that one and coupled them together. I have now a double header that works very well.
BOB
Super of the SANDY SOUTHERN RAILWAY

[Anonymous]

My 2 athreans run great together on DC power.

[Anonymous]

Doesn't anyone make a tiny adjustable resistor (rheostat, potentiometer) that could be put into one of the the motor leads? That would go a long way toward matching the locomotives' speeds.

[nobullchitbids]

I had a pair of Rivarossi cab-forwards, since sold for having too deep flanges, which I would double-head on straight DC. Although ostensibly they were identical engines, what was real was that one ran faster than the other. I found that I could run them together, including at opposite ends of a long consist, if I placed the slowpoke to the rear. The consist put enough drag on the forward engine to smooth everything out.

[JimValle]

Interesting question. I run a lot of engines at one time, both steam and diesel. I match them by manufacturer, Atherns run in all Athern lash-ups and Proto 1000 and 2000 in like type lash ups in diesel and either all Bowser or all Gem brass in steam. For steamers it's best to match driver size and motor types ( open frame or can ) to get them to work together. To get them to work in opposite directions on a single track I reverse the trucks on some Athern diesels or reverse the wiring to the motor on some
steamers. It's also good to have a really heavy duty power pack, one that delivers 60 or more VA's like a MRC Controlmaster. I combine it with the outdoor grade Aristocraft
radio throttle so I can walk the layout with my trains. It's fused for ten amps and can usually support several units at once. I call my system "poor man's DCC" Air switches
and block wiring allows me to weave the trains into passing sidings or stage running
meets on my double track section. I'm busier than a cat covering you-know-what but it
keeps the layout interesting!

[twhite]

I do a lot of doubleheading, I'm 100% steam and DC. Many of the brass locos I have are geared close enought to doublehead without any problem at all, and I've got some 2.4% grades to tackle. One of the good things about some of the new locos coming out is that you can 'program' them to the same starting voltage in DC, and they'll work together like one loco. I've got a couple of Pennsy M1's that I got from BLI, and they work flawlessly together, doubleheading. I've even had a Pennsy Triple-header, just by re-programming the starting voltage on my J-1 and combining it with the two M's. So don't be afraid to double-head (assuming your locos are somewhat in sync), it's pretty spectacular.
By the way, [#welcome][#welcome]. I think you'll like the forum, I've found a pretty great bunch of people on it since I've joined.
Tom [:D][:D]

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by foamer13

Doesn't anyone make a tiny adjustable resistor (rheostat, potentiometer) that could be put into one of the the motor leads? That would go a long way toward matching the locomotives' speeds.

NO. Mechanical Speed 'curves' * and resistance effects come into play. Far easier to buy 2 similar 'matched' engines, and let the engineering depatment's effort's work for you.CLUE: SAME motor, SAME chassis, from SAME poduction run.

*sometimes 2 engines will run similarly at lower voltage, but not a higher one. Then there is the cost of DCC.

[Virginian]

You may also find that engines can be run together, but only at a certain voltage level, or at least in a narrow range. Just for grins I put a Riv Y6b ahead of a BLI Class A and had another Y6b on the rear. Looked cool, worked fine, but I couldn't get a nong enough train to be too realistic.

[hubbabubba2]

Thanks for the nice welcome and great answers. [:D]

I’m in N scale and have a couple of Atlas and Kato locomotives. I’ll do as you recommend and try them out to se which works together.

[wccobb]

I'm in HO using "traditional" DC. Been checking compatability by spacing the test locos a few inches apart, then run them thru the full speed range, both directions. Surprising what will "match-up". Life-Like F3A & F3B; Walthers FA1 & FB1; and a pair of Atlas GP7s (and a few others). These run so well togeather that I can use them as distributed power - the F units on the point and the Alcos midtrain. Or, either of the A-B sets on the point, one GP7 @ 1/3 back, the second GP7 @2/3 back. On a big folded dogbone with 22 inch radii and no grades, I've used distributed power for 106 car trains & @ 1" between rear cabose coupler & front engine coupler. Glad I'm not in that caboose!!!! Runs OK at "track speed" (79 smph). Control is a 50+ year old taper wound Ohmite rheostat.
There's other locomotives that prefer to do their own thing. PK2 GP7 & PK2 SD7 run perfectly togeather but with nothing else (higher starting voltage & lower top speed). An older PK2 BL2 won't run with any other PK2 but runs perfectly with newer Athearn (obvious when you check out the trucks & motor - it's an Athearn in disguise !!!).
Athearns generally work with each other. If there is some difference, its between those with flywheels and those without flywheels and those with the different types of motors (excuse if the "rubber bands" are left out). One old GP30 (vintage 1962?) runs great with the latest Athearns but just will not coast. There is also some running difference from how well each was broken in and how freely each runs. All this assumes recent lubed & clean wheels.
Sorry, no experience with N gauge. BUT: quality models is quality models in any gauge.

[Anonymous]

I'm in N Scale also and I have found that you do not mix Atlas engines with Kato. Atlas engines, even though they run very well seem to be geared quite a bit higher. Two sd-60's work very well together. I have run as many as four Kato SD-40-2's together with good results. You still try and match engines as well as you can. If you have one that runs just a bit faster, run it as the second unit and you will probably find that it evens out with the extra pull of the cars. Life Like engines seem to be geared at lot lower but they will run together quite well. I have two SW1200 switchers that work very well together. Most of the bigger Kato power, Dash 9's, SD 90's and 70's all seem to run very well. So just experiment a little and have some fun.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by foamer13

Doesn't anyone make a tiny adjustable resistor (rheostat, potentiometer) that could be put into one of the the motor leads? That would go a long way toward matching the locomotives' speeds.

Much better than a resistor is the usage of an "anti parallel" pair of simple 1Amp Diodes which should be switched in series with the motor. "Anti parallel" in this context means that both diodes are connected in parallel but with different direction thereby allowing current to pass in both directions through the motor.

--+-----------|<---------+----- Motor --------------
. +---------->|---------+

In such a circuit the normally used feature of a diode to let current pass only in one direction is not the focus (even unwished here), but it's characteristic to decrease Voltage (for silicium usually 0,7V).

The main advantage over using a resistor is that while the Voltage is decreased, the ability to let current through the motor is not decreased, which is important to retain "tractive effort" especially in slow running.

By using more than one pair of diodes even the fastest runners could be tamed.

--+--------|<----|<----|<---------+----- Motor --------------
. +-------->|---->|---->|---------+

Have Fun!

[Leon Silverman]

Mismatched engines should be a problem only if the faster engine still gains on on the slower engine while the faster engine is pulling a train when the slower engine is running free. If the train weight slows the faster engine down below the speed of the slower engine, they should work well together because the slower engine will take some of the load off the faster engine even if they do not share the load equally. Don't be surprised if the relative speed of these two engines changes with time, however, due to different wear rates.

[Wdlgln005]

I used to see speed tables developed by Model Railroading mag from Denver 10 or more years ago. Running 2 DC locos depends on the RPM of the motors & the gearing. Some don't even start at the same voltage! In some models, they may use the same motor, but gearing will be different. Also, the use of a lightbulb in the cab of an A unit may make it slower than a trailing B unit or A unit running backwards, so the light would be out. It used to be a big deal to have directional running lights.

The trick is to buy a set of 2 or more of the same locomotive, and run it together. One unit may nudge the other, resulting in a slightly lower starting speed. Two units pulling together will outpull each unit. If one will pull 10 cars, 2 may pull 25 or more. Results will vary depending on how level & straight your track is. also, the combined wheelbase of 2 units may help them go thru turnouts better without stalling on the frog.

One care to have in mind is to have secure couplers between the 2units. Unimates work fine. You want to be sure a bump dosen't send the lead unit flying while the 2nd unit struggles with the rest of the train. If the units can be coupled permanently, you can subsitute drawbars for the couplers.