So You Think Things Are Expensive Now?

[andrechapelon]

I managed to score an old Varney "Casey Jones" on eBay recently. I knew the locomotive dated from the 50's, but what I wasn't prepared for was the mini catalog on the back of the tender instructions with the blurb "Exciting New Locos For Fall 1950".

Before I start listing prices, the median family income in 1950 was $3,319/year or around $64/week (vs 51,400 in 2001) http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/histinc/f08.html. So what was Varney charging back then?

How about a "Super" Pacific for $57.50? Admittedly, the thing had fully sprung drivers and could pull the wallpaper off the wall, but you needed to pony up an additional $7-9 for a tender. That's right, the loco kit didn't include a tender. The "Super" Mikado was a buck more, but still with no tender. The "Economy" Mike was a tad cheaper at $41.95. No tender of course, but that's the way things were.

'Course, you could buy a Dockside 0-4-0 for $15. That's only 1/4 of a week's pay. OTOH, to pay the same relative price today, you'd pay $232. But you'd have to buy a valve gear kit. The Varney Pacific would cost you $891.25 plus tax. You'd still need a tender (ranging in price from about $108 to about $140) , though, not to mention there'd be no sound and DCC.

Andre

[sparkingbolt]

Yup. That puts things into perspective. At the turn of the century things were even more expensive relatively, and extremely clunky and toylike, at they were toys. Some ran actual wall current to the rails! Dan.

[darday]

According to The Inflation Calculator website (http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi):

What cost $57.50 in 1950 would cost $424.25 in 2003.

Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 2003 and 1950, they would cost you $57.50 and $7.79 respectively.

Bear in mind that wages have increased more than inflation in the past 55 years, although most of that greater wage inflation was prior to 1980.

--Dave

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon

I managed to score an old Varney "Casey Jones" on eBay recently. I knew the locomotive dated from the 50's, but what I wasn't prepared for was the mini catalog on the back of the tender instructions with the blurb "Exciting New Locos For Fall 1950".

How about a "Super" Pacific for $57.50? Admittedly, the thing had fully sprung drivers and could pull the wallpaper off the wall, but you needed to pony up an additional $7-9 for a tender. That's right, the loco kit didn't include a tender. The "Super" Mikado was a buck more, but still with no tender. The "Economy" Mike was a tad cheaper at $41.95. No tender of course, but that's the way things were.

'Course, you could buy a Dockside 0-4-0 for $15. That's only 1/4 of a week's pay. OTOH, to pay the same relative price today, you'd pay $232. But you'd have to buy a valve gear kit. The Varney Pacific would cost you $891.25 plus tax. You'd still need a tender (ranging in price from about $108 to about $140) , though, not to mention there'd be no sound and DCC.

One has to put this sort of info in the proper perspective. First of all, model railroading was a very different sort of hobby prior to and just after WWII than it is today. Either you were a moneybags or you were a real craftsman who built your own equipment - there was no inbetween.

Secondly, one can not honestly compare relative hobby pricing from the distance past with today's costs simply because the items were bought with disposable income and thus not adjustable via simply invoking the CPI or inflation rates.

More importantly, early post-war offerings by Varney, Mantua, et al. were a considerable price break through relative to the pre-war years. Before WWII outfits like Rollin Lobaugh charged $200 to $300 for a RTR HO engine. Such models were essentially custombuilt or made in extremely small runs. There were very few options and many locomotive "kits" required you to be a machinist to fini***hem. Flyer's Hudson was about he only reasonably affordable RTR large engine prior to the war.

The early 1950's saw a change in the entire direction of the hobby, with relatively inexpensive (under $50) locomotive kits with completely finished parts and screwdriver assembly being offered for the first time. For the first time, modelers without great mechanical skills or very deep pockets could enter the hobby and by 1960 things were down right cheap!

So...the situation/conditions of the hobby have changed dramatically over the years, as did those who could participate in it. What might be more proper would be to compare pre-war pricing of Lobaugh locomotives with similar brass models today. In doing so, you will find that there is relatively little difference in pricing when past and current incomes are compared.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

Whew. And that 2.40 athearn kit is the same as our 40 dollar cow palaces running out of the box today.

Thanks for a GREAT resource that shows the differences between 1950 and today.

[davekelly]

Very interesting. Wonder how much a DCC system cost back then lol. Seriously, GE made some sort of carrier control system back in the 60's in thinkin. Anyone know what the cost of that was or what it would be in today's money?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

Very interesting. Wonder how much a DCC system cost back then lol. Seriously, GE made some sort of carrier control system back in the 60's in thinkin. Anyone know what the cost of that was or what it would be in today's money?

Linn Wescott had a article where he "dreamed" about trains that knew where they were supposed to go based on radio signals. ( DCC now carries signal in the track) and other advance ments that are a reality today.

In my father's time cellphones were the stuff of Science Fiction now we have them everywhere.

I wonder if we will advance to DCC rolling stock where you had to haul so much product to make a revenue to be permitted to keep running the railroad. For example a boxcar can use voice to rattle off it's status to a human.

Gets rid of all the paper work shuffling trying to determine what that boxcar is doing at the widget factory. Instead you can say:

"Boxcar"
"working" (Bad star trek)
"status"
"currently loading 300 cases of widgets for interchange with the WM"

Now you know that boxcar is awaiting loading and transport to the layout's interchange with the WM.

One problem that comes to mind is 30 boxcars hear your voice saying "boxcar" and all will respond at once all over the room. Just like a crowd in a union hall during roll call. Yeesh.

Technology is good... but sometimes TOO good. =)

[cjcrescent]

Dave;
I don't know the cost since I knew I would never be able to afford something that expensive, but GE's system was called Astrac and with it you could control a grand total of FIVE locos. I believe that they did get it up to SEVEN evetually before they dropped the product.

In the old RMC series on the V&O Allan McClelland said he used it for a time.

[twhite]

Just goes to show you what I've been thinking all along since I was 14 and switched from Lionel to Athearn. Model Railroading is, has been and probably always will be a relatively expensive hobby. My first brass loco, a PFM Santa Fe 2-8-0 cost me $49.50 in 1960. I was in college. I happened to have about $50 in Mad Money, so I bought it. Stared at it for almost a week wondering why I'd spent so much, before I ran it. I've still got it (remotored) and it's still a cute little wobbler. Second brass loco in 1964 cost me $109.00, a Missabe 2-8-8-4. I couldn't believe I'd spent that much on a TRAIN! Still have it (remotored). Pulls the paint off the walls. Last brass I bought cost $425.00 (used), a couple of months ago. I figure it cost me about eight nights out at the movies. And considering the quality of most of the movies today, I figure that I came out WAY ahead! But it's still an expensive hobby. Always was, probably always will be. But I can't think of a better one.
Tom [^][^]

[davekelly]

cjcresent,

Yeah, Astrac. I remember reading about it too thinking "wow." It's kinda interesting. Although some things may have gone up in price in this hobby, and others gone down, there are somethings that weren't even an option. If the internet were available back then as well as this forum, I don't think there would be very many posts concerning Astrac. Now DCC is pretty common. Very interesting to say the least.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by darday

According to The Inflation Calculator website (http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi):

What cost $57.50 in 1950 would cost $424.25 in 2003.

Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 2003 and 1950, they would cost you $57.50 and $7.79 respectively.

Bear in mind that wages have increased more than inflation in the past 55 years, although most of that greater wage inflation was prior to 1980.

--Dave

I was adjusting for the increase in gross income, not inflation. The purpose was to demonstrate the relative cost of the items vs. average gross income. Even adjusting just for inflation, however, the relative cost of the Varney Pacific kit (sans tender) is more than you'd pay for a BLI Santa Fe 3751, J1e Hudson, etc.

As for paying only $57.50 today for an item costing $57.50 in 1950, that's not true. The one Varney locomotive available today that was available in 1950 is the "Casey Jones", which sold for $22.00 in the early 50's. The current Bowser rendition has an MSRP of $114.95. That's considerably lower than the adjusted rate for inflation, but more than 5 times the 22 bucks the thing went for in the 50's. OTOH, the tooling has long since been paid for and you do get a set of Walschaerts valve gear for it.

Apropos the "Casey Jones" I got off eBay, it wasn't quite a screwdriver assembly kit when it first came out, although it came close. There's a drilling template included with the instructions for positioning the holes for handrail stanchions. Apparently, the original owner decided not to mount handrails on it as there are no holes. I'm going to have to drill them myself. I bought the engine to detail it as an SP T-28, but given the age of the engine, I'm not so sure that that's the best thing I could do with it. Perhaps the best thing would be to fix it up as if it were a freshly built kit circa 1950. The gears are all metal and the motor is an old Pitmann DC-60. I'll have to ponder that for a while. In terms of wear and tear, the engine looks like it's been run somewhat but not all that much. It appears to have spent a lot more time boxed up than it ever spent on anyone's layout.

Incidentally, if anyone's interested, there's another Casey Jones on eBay currently. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38278&item=5956762793&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW that looks like it's roughly the same vintage as the one I bought. I say "roughly" because the wheels on the one for sale are plated while the ones on the one I bought are unplated brass.

Andre

[jimrice4449]

One other thing about Astrac. You needed a box car or express reefer to run behind the engine to accomodate the electronics!

[BRAKIE]

I chuckle at the low weekly pay of $64/week seeing that was a whooping $1.60 per hour low wages even in those days..Those $1.60 a hour jobs was usually low skilled jobs to boot..You had Union jobs that paid up to $2.50-2.65 a hour not to mention the white collar jobs.Also take in account the cost of living was cheaper back then.Gas was 24.9 a gallon bread was 15 cents a loaf.
Why buy the Varney when Brass steam locomotives could be had for as low as $29.95-49.95? Don't forget you could buy at discount just like today..Brass diesel started as low as $21.85..

[davekelly]

I love paging through old model railroaders and checking out the price of things in the American Hobby Center ads of long ago. I often sit and daydream what it would be like to take some money now and go back in time . . . man that would be a blast!

BTW: I think in determining the cost of model railroad things compared to salary, we also need to look at some costs that we choose to have today that weren't around back then. ie: cable/satellite TV, internet connection, cell phones etc etc.

[Anonymous]

The main difference between the SuperPacific of back then and today (factoring out production advancements which help negate some of this point) is the Quality of such items and materials used back then was of a higher grade IMHO. The sole reason I only model Marklin (and the occasional Roco, or HAG) is that beside using them on the track, they are great to hold and just look at.. And if you look at the average loc price of between $320-$400, now you see that quality always costs, no matter what the era. My next model the Big Boy Digital weighs in at better than 4 pounds and is made with such attention to detail as can only be found in Germany today in model railroading, but was probably very common back in the US in the 50's.

I don't have a permanent layout at this moment, so half of my enjoyment comes from just looking.

[Jetrock]

One of the reasons I enjoy going to train shows (other than smokin' deals and the company of a gymnasium full of fellow foaming railroad nuts) is the opportunity to see REALLY OLD kits, built and unbuilt. Flipping through old MR's and seeing these kits advertised is one thing, seeing them there on the table is quite another! Many of them came as a box of sticks and cardboard--and these were considered relatively simple kits.

1970's era MR had some interesting ideas about electronics--using a (for the time) state-of-the-art Apple II to solder one's own interface cards for a computer/model-railroad interface seemed very, very high-tech!

[Eriediamond]

My [2c] here. I do agree that wages have in creased faster then inflation. But I will throw out here that at least my "mad money' has decreased. When comparing prices of things over the years no one has thrown in the tax equation to this discussion. I won't make this a quote, but back in the 40's you would work a week or two for the government and now your working about five months for the government or more. I'm just trying to be realistic here, in saying that I'm now making more then I did back then, but have less hobby money . Just an old codgers thoughts, Ken

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jetrock

One of the reasons I enjoy going to train shows (other than smokin' deals and the company of a gymnasium full of fellow foaming railroad nuts) is the opportunity to see REALLY OLD kits, built and unbuilt. Flipping through old MR's and seeing these kits advertised is one thing, seeing them there on the table is quite another! Many of them came as a box of sticks and cardboard--and these were considered relatively simple kits.

1970's era MR had some interesting ideas about electronics--using a (for the time) state-of-the-art Apple II to solder one's own interface cards for a computer/model-railroad interface seemed very, very high-tech!

If those projects/items seem challenging, go back about another 30 years and look at some of the projects described in the pages of war-time or pre-war MRs. There were even some articles by fellas who cut up tin soup cans to provide sheet metal (sheet brass was unavailable during the war years) for fabricating locomotive boilers and superstructures! And we've got guys in the hobby today that complain about assembling Athearn shake-the-box kits!

CNJ831