How many sticking with cab control?

[mondotrains]

Hi Don,
I wondered if you could clarify you response for me a little. I don't understand why DCC provides for "unlimited" cabs. I thought the term "cab" referred to throttles. I'm not sure if your response is saying that if you understand the difference between + and - polarity, then you should be able to wire block control and forget DCC.

I'd appreciate some help understanding because I may be moving to a new home and am wondering if I should go DCC on my next layout. I fully understand wiring and used rotary switches on my current block-controlled layout with 6 walk-around throttles made by Aristocraft. I don't mind having to set the rotaries as I go for a particular throttle. Heck, I have to stop and throw toggle switches anyway to set my turnouts (wired to Tortoise switch machines). I have 70 engines, many of which are not DCC ready.

By the way, I'm happy with my MRC sound system for when visitors come over. I've been told that sound in each individual engine can get very annoying and it cost a fortune.

Again, any help would be appreciated.

Thank you,
Mondo

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

DCC :Advantages... Unlimited cabs, Simplified Block wiriing.

How many Cabs (@ $100} do you want?
Do you understand the the difference of (+) and (-) polarity?

[AntonioFP45]

I currently have a shelf layout/test track and 20 locomotives. I'm currently DC but am going DCC.

It's much cheaper now than it was 5 years ago (TCS has decoders for $14!). In my new layout, I will be a primary operator but with the Digitrax Zephyr, I'll be using the "Jump Port" feature so that I can also plug in my MRC Tech series powerpack for a 2nd operator.

I like the idea of running two trains at the same time as a lone operator. It's so easy with DCC. While a passenger train is running the mainline, I would be performing switching operations at the local industries; picking up and dropping off freight cars.
With the passenger train at station stops I turn the gyra light or Mars light off. Turn it back on when ready to depart.

I could enjoy switching locomotives in and out of the diesel facility as they take on fuel and have to be lined up. With DCC I can choose to turn their head lights on or off as they line up on the ready track waiting for their next assignment. Sound equipped? I'd have several of them idling.

I too am on a tight budget, but these things can be done little by little. For me, DCC offers way too many fun opportunities to ignore!

Many Cheers!

[AntonioFP45]

Hello Mondotrains,

Good to see you posting.

O.K, in a nutshell: With DCC, you can forget about assigning route blocks to trains and all the wiring that goes with it. Your locomotives can run ANYWHERE, EVERYWHERE, ANYTIME! The thing you have to watch for: Collisions, exactly like the prototype railroads!

To those of you that want to stick with DC, nothing at all wrong with that. But some of you slamming DCC? Well, to each his own.

As for cost? You can get a Zephyr setup for $159. You can buy decoders from Tony's Trains and LItcfield Station for as low as $11 each. If you have 50 or 100 locomotives? Do a few at a time! If they are "amp eating" units, you can re-power them (yes, even brass locomotives) or you can sell them. I've sold or traded a number of my older "amp hungry"[dinner] units that no longer interest me since my focus is on Southeastern U.S roads.

I slammed DCC also two years ago. I ate my words when a 60 year "Old Timer" gave a DCC demo at a train show and a good friend of mine got into it. In looking at the setups, it was so much easier than the DC Cab Control setups that used to intimidate me.

It's just like when the jet airplane replaced the propeller airpline for passenger lines. We're now at the beginning stages. In a few years, DCC will be "The Norm" for HO model railroading. It's now longer growing slowly, but "exploding"! Our technical minded young people (under 25) are helping to make sure of this.

[egmurphy]

I know that not all senior model railroaders are technology challenged, but count me among the number that are. I considered it a major accomplishment when I successfully wired up my little layout for two cab DC operation, and it actually worked!

DCC sounds like a great idea, and I suspect that it will become the norm some day. Fortunately I can get away without it on my small setup.

I did consider it for a moment. Then we had a small power blip and I had to call the neighbor kid to reprogram the clock on the VCR........... and cancelled any thoughts about DCC for me!!

QUOTE: mondotrains: By the way, I'm happy with my MRC sound system for when visitors come over.

Is that the Sound Station 312? I've never heard too much about it, but thought that it might do for me. I'm never going to put speakers in my little n scale locos, but would like to have some steam sounds in the background. Can you say any more about it, like how or how well it works?


Regards

Ed

[AntonioFP45]

EGmurphy,

The point I was trying to come across is that DCC and the wiring that goes with it is even easier than the cab setup! And I'm a guy that's very electronicaly challeneged!

If you can wire up the cab system that you just mentioned, then DCC will likely be a breeze for you, in comparison.

Just my2 cents!

[egmurphy]

Thanks, Antonio, but my response was really meant to be more humorous than anything. I don't have a real problem with wiring as long as I can see where the wires go. So dpdt's or Atlas selectors are fine. When I can't really follow along with those little electrons (like when it goes into that black box of a chip) I'm not as confident.

I do think that I could probably get a DCC system setup, one of the simpler ones, anyway. But I'm in N scale and from all that I hear getting decoders installed in some N scale locos is still a bit of an adventure. By the time they get that straightened out and made easier my eyesight will probably make it difficult for me. [:D]

But thanks for the words of encouragement.

Regards

Ed

[CP5415]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

DCC :Advantages... Unlimited cabs, Simplified Block wiriing.

How many Cabs (@ $100} do you want?
Do you understand the the difference of (+) and (-) polarity?

Sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the cab this morning! [:D]

I only need 2 cabs. One I bought, the other was given to me by my father in law as a Christmas present.
True DCC is easier to wire than DC, BUT, I want to see if I can wire up 2 DC cabs on my small 9X12 layout before I even consider going DCC.
Besides, I've read that if your layout is wired for cab control, it's easier to figure out where the short is if & when there is one.

Just my 2 cents

Gordon

[Anonymous]

I think that DCC in its current state is great. If I were starting in this hobby today, or even maybe 8 years ago, it would be a no-brainer, although I still respect those who disagree, and its still unnecessary for really simple pikes. As I work on my new layout following a house move, I've been sure to wire it so that switching to DCC in the future will be fairly easy. However, like many, I have too many locos (about 80) and nearly all are steam. As with the wiring, nearly all of my locos have can motors isolated from the frames, with re-motoring the remainder being pretty high on the list so that the most difficult part of DCC conversion will have already been accomplished. The decision to install decoders, and the task of doing so, is low on the overall prioirty list. Meanwhile, my track plan is well adapted to running DC without a lot of frantic toggle-switching. Also, something that concerns me a lot about converting brass steam is the prevalence with those models, of very brief shorts which I'm told is crippling for DCC while they just chug right through it on DC.

[Anonymous]

I never meant to "dis" DCC, I just wondered if many people were like me and decided that with their current circumstances, DCC didn't seem to be adventageous. Personally, I hope both with remain an option for years to come. The old technology makes me happy and I understand it. I have more than enough changes to keep up with in the real world. DC is something familiar, akin to an old friend. It is kind of like a time portal back to my youth. I won't say I will never embrace DCC. With my roster of DC locomotives, it seems like a daunting, and most likely incredibly maddening task.

[simon1966]

The fact that BLI is releasing many of its products without DCC and Sound is a good indicator that there is a market demand for DC. I don't have a clue what the market penetration of DCC is at this point, but I doubt it is any where near 50% of operating layouts.

[howmus]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

The point I was trying to come across is that DCC and the wiring that goes with it is even easier than the cab setup! And I'm a guy that's very electronicaly challeneged!

If you can wire up the cab system that you just mentioned, then DCC will likely be a breeze for you, in comparison.

Case in point, I spent years wiring the layout for DC. Thousands of wires going every which way. Never ran the trains that much as I was always fiddling with toggle switches, fixing problems, and running trains into blocks that were set to the other cab or off and then shorting out or just stopping. Here are some photos of the work I'm currently doing. The first two show a small part of the stuff I have torn out. The third shows what it got replaced with. I am almost ready to add decoders to my locos which is not at all hard to do on DCC ready locomotives, and start running trains instead of the toggle switches. [:D] To each their own as they are comfortable. After all it's your layout, do as you want but just have fun doing it!

[Anonymous]

To Mr. Ray Howard: Thank you! If a picture is worth a thousand words, your case for DCC is perfect. I think those who are older and have a lot of engines make a good point for the high conversion cost, but if you're just starting out, and you get DCC ready engines, why would you not want to simplify your life? I especially like automatic polarity changes on reversing sections, and operating only the switches, and not track blocks. Thanks again.
GE

[Anonymous]

I don't have a layout, and right now haven't really been able to run my trains lately, so I'm not investing in any DCC equipment.
If I set up anything for more then one operator, be it family or friends, I'll go DCC, regardless of how many loco's I have.

Alvie.

[bcammack]

If I stay in N, I may not ru***o DCC because of the "fit the decoder in the tiny locomotive" issue, but if I go to HO I'll jump on it in a heartbeat. I want to operate my trains, not my layout. I don't want to run wires everywhere and hook up toggles and rotary switches. I understand electronics perfectly well and I have a mil.spec. ticket for NASA level soldering, but I don't see the point in this day and age of stubbornly clinging to traditional layout wiring simply because it's familiar

The Bachmann EZ Command system has a street price of $70 or less. Decoders are under $20 these days. Where's the expense? Where's the complexity?

[Anonymous]

Well I don't have any NASA level credentials and I don't understand all electronics perfectly well. At least with traditional layout wiring I can troubleshoot my engines and layout. I have read about complications with decoders and burning them out if not installed properly. If I were modelling HO scale, I would learn about DCC. But the "fit the decoder in the tiny locomotive" (which wasn't designed for a decoder) and the lack of understanding electronics perfectly well, makes the decision to stay with DC less a case of stubbornly clinging to old technology and more of a mark of prudence. I didn't get into model railroading to frustrate the life out of me (that's what my wife is for), but to enjoy something relaxing and soothingly familiar.

[AggroJones]

I'm not an electrical wizzard. The wiring on my layout is simple DC. No jiggers or fancy electrical devices.
I was contemplating a DCC system for my layout in late 2004. Only cause it'd be alot eaiser to control my BLI locomtives. What stopped me, besides the cash, was the fact that I have several locos that are too hard to convert.
This is a railfan layout. Not too much switching. No mulitple locomotives being operated on the same track. The only thing DCC would do for me is make BLI steamers stop and start smoother. Not enough advance to warrant paying someone to DCC up my older motive power.
I'll stick to my 4 DC cabs.

[dinwitty]

If you are already set up with cab control, why switch?

I am building a new layout with DCC from the ground up.

I think the best option about DCC is all the sound options.

With Cab control you can easily have one line as DCC should you want or have a DCC engine with some of the great features like sound and lights.

[Anonymous]

I have only started my layout about a year ago. We have a rather large layout with three main track loops and six locomotives. We can run three trains independtly on three separate loops. When I first learned about DCC I though it might be a good idea. However, after learning more, I do not see the need to make things more complicated and more expensvie. We recently bought three new MRC 260 power supplies to replace the inexpensive used one we had been using. I have no plans to change to DCC. Larry

[egmurphy]

One of the great things about this hobby is that's there's room for everyone, no matter what your likes or dislikes. We don't check DCC/DC credentials at the door. (Well we may start doing so if we keep getting invaded by Troll/Terrorists, but that's another story.) No need to convert people to a new system. Yet for those who do want to change or try something new, you guys with experience are always there to offer an opinion, give advice, or troubleshoot. That's one of the things that makes the forum as good as it is.


Regards

Ed

[BRAKIE]

Getting right down to the netty gritty I am comfortable with DCC as I am DC..I really don't have a preference as I found both DCC and DC gets the job done..That job? Running my trains...[:D]

[Anonymous]

you no i am on the edge right now i am a toal cheapo and i have a used loco this baby runs awsome but i had a conversion question. can i take an old engin and make it dcc ready or am i better off getting a new engin?

[AntonioFP45]

Howmus,

Wow! Those photos look more like colored spaghetti than wiring! Kind of stuff that used to scare me about cab control!

I'm not putting down DC as that is what I'm currently using on my "shelf module", but simplified wiring is another plus about DCC that I'm attracted to.

[fievel]

After much consideration of the qualities of both cab control and DCC, I am wiring
my layout the "old" way. If someone gave me the best DCC system and set it up
at no charge,I'd still want all the DPDT switches,along with oodles of wires.
DCC is a great technology,but I prefer to be the Tower Operator,routing my trains
through the electrical blocks. But there is no "wrong" way. To each his own,and
have fun![:)]

[mondotrains]

QUOTE: Originally posted by egmurphy

I know that not all senior model railroaders are technology challenged, but count me among the number that are. I considered it a major accomplishment when I successfully wired up my little layout for two cab DC operation, and it actually worked!

DCC sounds like a great idea, and I suspect that it will become the norm some day. Fortunately I can get away without it on my small setup.

I did consider it for a moment. Then we had a small power blip and I had to call the neighbor kid to reprogram the clock on the VCR........... and cancelled any thoughts about DCC for me!!

QUOTE: mondotrains: By the way, I'm happy with my MRC sound system for when visitors come over.

Is that the Sound Station 312? I've never heard too much about it, but thought that it might do for me. I'm never going to put speakers in my little n scale locos, but would like to have some steam sounds in the background. Can you say any more about it, like how or how well it works?


Regards

Ed

Hi Ed,
I'd be glad to explain the MRC Sound Station 312, which is exactly what I have. You simply plug it into a wall outlet and put the already-attached speaker it comes with somewhere under or around your layout. When you turn it on, you have a hand-held controller with the on-off switch, and around 24 buttons. The good thing is you can have the "clickety-clack" sound of trains running along and at the same time pu***he long or short horn sound. There are also whistles and steam sounds, even a conductor button where you hear "all aboard". It's a lot of fun for us big kids as well as the little ones. It adds a great dimension to the layout for visitors.

Hope this helps and sorry for getting back to you so late.
Mondo

[egmurphy]

QUOTE: Hope this helps and sorry for getting back to you so late.
Mondo

Yep, that was exactly what I wanted to know. I think that is within my technical grasp. I know it's not the same as having DCC and speakers in the trains, but it will be better than what I have now.

Thanks

Ed