Need help. I'm having problems painting brick

[DigitalGriffin]

I'm trying to paint the side of a red brick wall using Polly scale and I'm having several problems.

Problem 1:
The red base coat paint is going on inconsistantly. After two coats it looks uneven. You can see strokes of where the paint brush has been. Should I apply more coats?

Problem 2:
I'm trying to add concrete detail between the bricks. This technique is covered in the weathering book by Kalmbach. I added a little water to the polly scale to water it down and ran it over the paint. I then erased the surface to remove any that lays on the brick face. Very little of it is settling into the cracks and covering the red base. Do I just need to keep applying more layers here? I'm worried about build up ruining the base coat color on the brick face, and hiding the brick detail.

Does anybody have any advice for a newb?

[Anonymous]

I have never had much luck using a brush. I have had incredilble success using an airbrush, It's another major expense in thos hobby but could prove cheap compared to frustrations. Hopefully someone else can help you for now.

Good Luck, Rich

[soumodeler]

Some in our model railroad club use this:

Get two cans of spray paint: brick red and antique white. Then spray on the red color and let dry. Then, spray the white on and quickly wipe off with a paper towel. It is not easy when there are a ton of windows, but good for a wharehouse.

soumodeler
-----------------
http://www.trainweb.org/mgr
The Southern Serves the South!

[davekelly]

Try adding alcohol to the mortor color and a few drops of dish detergent.

[Don Gibson]

TRY watering down your 'mortar' color more, and apply - letting the color RUN in-between the bricks - and let dry. I do not wipe off the surface unless I have an accident

Watering down enough to run may require several coatings, and that is OK.

Remember 'mortar' goes from white to grey to black as it absorbs the contanimant's in the air and ages, Just drive around a Midwestern ex-coal burning town's sometime.

[tomwatkins]

I've gotten good results by airbrushing the brick color and then thinning Polly Scale gray with windshield washer fluid and brushing it on. I thin the PS way down, probably 60-70% thinner. It settles in the mortar groves and can be wiped off the brick, although a little of it left on the brick "ages" the brick nicely.
Have Fun,
Tom Watkins

[Jetrock]

Try using a cheap foam brush (they cost about 50 cents at Home Depot) instead of a bristled paintbrush--I have found these better for painting brick walls without leaving brush marks. And don't skimp on the paint!

Indeed, a mortar wash should be mostly alcohol with a little gray or light brown paint, and a drop or two of detergent.

[orsonroy]

1) don't worry about the brick color going on inconsistently. Look at real brick buildings and you'll quickly realize that bricks do NOT come in all one color! The older the building, the more color variations there will be. Just think about the random color differences as a free first step weathering.

2) don't worry about mortar lines. First of all, go out on a nice sunny day with a HO scale brick building, and wander around until you're far enough away from a real brick building that it looks HO scale (using the HO scale building as a reference). Stare at the brick walls. Guess what? You'll generally see NO mortar lines! If you do, they're generally darker, and NEVER white. Filling in mortar lines with white/light grey paint on models is hugely unrealistic for several reasons. First, model mortar lines are almost always 2-3 times too big. When they're that badly out of scale and filled with white paint, they look horrible. Second, when you apply a mortar wash and try to clean off the brick faces, you'll invariably leave SOME white paint on them, fading out the brick surface. Red brick is NOT pink!

If you MUST add mortar to a kit wall, use a black wash on EVERYTHING. Even if you decode to add white/grey mortar, tone it down with a black wash.

The best (but very time consuming) way I saw to add mortar to a kit was to paint the entire building the color of the mortar, and then go back and drybrush on the brick color. The mortar lines tended to be smaller (the paint invaded the mortar lines, making them appear narrower and almost scale) and the brick color wasn't faded out.

[simon1966]

I have tried both methods described above. Brick color airbrush followed by flowing mortar, and the all mortar color with dry brush brick. I like the look of the 2nd method better as the brick color ends up with more variations and IMO looks more realistic.

[Anonymous]

Easy one here...

Water down your mortar colour and run it liberally into the grout lines. Let it completely dry.
Then using a dry brush, do several layers of your brick colour. Keep your brush strokes across the grout lines so as to not paint them your brick colour. So if you paint horizontally, brick layer by brick layer you should be ok. Since thye grout colour is most likely lighter, it will make a nice base coat to the red you are applying for the bricks.

Remember that many thin coats are always better than 1 or two thick coats, and will look more realistic.

Hope this helps.
Trevor

[WilmJunc]

This sounds simple, but I think the results look realistic. Spray paint the brick surface with a coat of red-oxide auto primer. This dries very quickly. After the primer dries, brush on a mixture of (1 part antique white flat latex paint, 9 parts of water, and a few drops of dish washing liquid) to the brick surface and allow to dry. This works best if the brick surface is laying flat. The white paint mixture fills in the spaces between the brick but runs off the brick. This is similar to the method described by Sassi in his scenery books.

[Jetrock]

For foreground structures, I actually like to highlight individual bricks with different brick colors after applying the base coat. A few bricks in lighter or darker browns, black, rust, tan, etcetera, provides some interesting variation. It looks really stark and unrealistic on top of the base coat, but applying a later mortar wash and then an ink wash helps tie the colors together. It's a bit much for a large brick structure but it can make a small brick bit like a chimney or brick porch really stand out.

[Anonymous]

"This sounds simple, but I think the results look realistic. Spray paint the brick surface with a coat of red-oxide auto primer. This dries very quickly. After the primer dries, brush on a mixture of (1 part antique white flat latex paint, 9 parts of water, and a few drops of dish washing liquid) to the brick surface and allow to dry. This works best if the brick surface is laying flat. The white paint mixture fills in the spaces between the brick but runs off the brick. This is similar to the method described by Sassi in his scenery books."

I can vouch for this....I have been using the red oxide auto primer spray paint for over 20 years! In addition to regular house paint, I have also used artists white acrylic 'tube paint' dilited with both water and a retarder to make it dry very slowly, so I have plenty of time to rub it off to suit my taste. I'll also mix in a spot of black and dark blue and burnt unber TINY spots...to tone down the white to a dirty light grey. After the morter dries I usually weather the buildings with thin washes of grimey 'stain' of highly dilute latex thinned with alcaho or with a dusting of chalk powders. Jenniferl

[davekelly]

Wow. There are litterally hundreds of ideas out there for this task. Each one seems to work for the folks using it. Just like anything else out there. I've learned over the years to gather as much information as possible, pick a couple of methods to try out and then go for the one that looks best and works best for me. ie: there isn't just one way to do anything.

That's the great thing about this forum. Lot's of people sharing ideas with the only thought being to help someone out. How cool is that?

[fiatfan]

DigitalGriffin,

I use the Polly Scale with a brush also and it can take three or four coast to get the building covered. Recently I have tried using the craft paints from Wal-Mart and Hooby Lobby. At 44 cents a bottle, it's about one tenth the price of Polly Scale and does a good job of getting the building painted. I still use the Polly Scale for those showcase buildings.

Good luck!

Tom

[Anonymous]

There's been a lot of suggestions so far, but I wanted to add my 2 cents anyway.

1) Paint your morter lines FIRST. This uses a little more paint, but you don't have to thin it outargiously (saving on thinner)
2) use a sponge (i get the Dollar store ones for makeup since they're cheap) and sponge on your brick. Do it lightly and with slightly different shades of red. (bricks aren't always the same color, even within 1 brick itself)

This is the same way that I paint stone work. On brick I tend to use a couple of reds that are pretty close together (but wider range from building to building) and on stone, I use a larger range of shading as well we adding twinges of red or green (not outlandish, just subtle hints).

[Anonymous]

Let me add another thought that I did not see above. Before doing any of the painting (I've used both an airbrush and regular brushes with good results) be sure to wa***he plastic surface with wram water and dish soap and then let it dry thoroughly. If you don't wash off the mold release, finger prints, etc., it can cause the paint to not spread well and/or stick.

Steve

[Anonymous]

To solve your problem of it soaking up too much paint, use a concrete primer first, this will save you plenty of $$'s in paint. Use an airbrush or a foam bru***o avoid paint brush marks. As for the rest, I have never tried that style. Plan on once you paint brick it is no longer maintenance free and plan on painting every 5 - 10 years, it also effects resale because people look at maintenance free as a plus : ) Hope that helps!

[AltonFan]

DigitalGriffin,

Did you clean the surface to be painted? (I'm assuming you are working on a plastic kit.) Plastic models should be cleaned with warm water and a mild detergent, and allowed to air dry before painting. Also, care should be exercised to avoid getting skin oils on the work after it has been cleaned.

[hd8091]

I second the automotive primer or you can use the cheap red oxide paints from Walmart, 99c or Krylon about $3.00. I have had good luck using Tempura paints thinned with blue washer fluid to the point where it is very runny. To darken the white Tempura I add black Tempura until I get a shade I like, usually a dark grey. The best thing about using the poster paints is if you don,t like the results you can just scrub it off and reapply them. A life time supply is about $4.00 a bottle.

[Anonymous]

We just purchased a commercial property and it has off-white siding with red brick about 2 -1/2 feet high around the bottom, want to paint it, but not sure what color - want it to look good! Any great color ideas, or creative ideas to make it look spactacular and stick out without looking tacky? Want it very tastful. any pictures or sites with pics?

[dgwinup]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gctray

We just purchased a commercial property and it has off-white siding with red brick about 2 -1/2 feet high around the bottom, want to paint it, but not sure what color - want it to look good! Any great color ideas, or creative ideas to make it look spactacular and stick out without looking tacky? Want it very tastful. any pictures or sites with pics?

Is this a REAL commercial building or one for your layout?

If it's real, then OFF-TOPIC ! OFF-TOPIC ! LOL

Okay, if it's real, an effect I have seen and liked is to paint the mortar lines a light to dark gray or concrete color, using a roller designed for textured surfaces. After that dries, paint the surface of the brick whatever color you like, but use a hard roller designed for very flat surfaces. That will allow the roller to skim over the mortar lines, leaving them the original color. Very nice effect.

You can use the same procedure on a model, but I have NO idea where to find paint rollers that small!!! ROFLOL

The suggestions others have made all sound good. Try some and use the one that you like the best.

Darrell, quiet...for now

[robert sylvester]

[;)]Lot's of good suggestions. Of course washing the buildings in warm soapy water is a good thing to do first, although I have to admit I just paint away because I like the uneven coloration that you get with hand painting. Like the others, I use cheap paints, but I do use Poly Scale for the windows and framing because the paint is actually scaled for HO. That is the pain chip fragments are smaller that in other paints, therefore you see more detail than when you use regular paints. Mix your paints thoroughly, use a small battery powered mixer, available from Micro-Mark.
Spray paints at [}:)]Walmart are great, all kinds of brick colors. I spray the parts first while still on the sprues. Walls for example I let dry over night; then for the mortar, I use Sheet Rock Mud, right out of the pale. It's very simple, use a clean spatula or your fingers spread it over the wall, then use a paper towel to wipe off the excess; when it dries, use a damp paper towel and wipe off the dust color. This techique is very effingective and it works. I have found it is a lot easier than using the diluted white paint. You can also use powder or white flour or gray chalk and spread it over the wall and wipe off the excess.
To actually see these techniques, George Selios demonstrates his techniques in Allen Keller's video tape of the Franklin and South Manchester; and Dave Frary demonstrates his techniques in his video tape series sold by Micro Mark on painting and detailing HO structures.[;)]
Robert
WTRR
Hub City Division

[robert sylvester]

[;)]Posted this response in the wrong place. I forgot to add I use
Dulcote as a fixative for the chalk, flour, and powder. I have also used spray clear coat as a fixative.
Robert WTRR
Hub City Division[:o)]

[doctorwayne]

Robert is right: drywall mud works well. Get the pre-mixed stuff: if you want to pre-colour it, scoop some into a disposable container (it doesn't take much to do a fair size building) - you can use dry colour like tempera or Polly Scale paint if you want a mortar colour other than white, and you won't contaminate the entire pail. I apply it using a rag over the tip of my finger, making sure to work it in well around projecting areas like windowsills, etc. After it has dried (maybe an hour or so, but I've sometimes left it several days with no ill effects) use a clean rag to rub the excess off the face of the bricks. I don't bother with a clear overspray since I weather with an airbrush when using this mortar method. On the prototype, older buildings often had very white mortar: I think that this was because of a high lime content in the mix. It often did't remain white for long, but after you weather the building (don't use washes unless you seal your finished mortar work with a clear overspray) you can go back and use the mud right out of the bucket to represent repaired areas.
I've also used washes of Polly Scale paint to represent mortar (make it thin: you can always apply additional coats or add more paint to the wash) and be sure to add a few drops of dish detergent to the mix. And don't be afraid to try different colours; I've used white, grey, black, brown and combinations of all four. Using a fairly broad brush, coat the entire building and then let it stand for a few minutes on several sheets of newspaper. The wash will run down the walls, realistically weathering the lower parts of the structure to a greater degree than the upper stories (on the prototype, rain washes at least some of the dirt towards the ground). However, don't allow the collected run-off to dry, either at the bottom of the walls or around window sills and details, as it will leave an unprototypical ring in these areas when it dries. Instead, siphon off this excess, using either a paper towel or an appropriately sized paint brush. When this type of mortar is dry, you can apply further weathering with an airbrush.
Finally, experiment with your brick colours. I use Floquil when airbrushing and Polly Scale when brush painting. You can custom mix colours or use them as they come. Depot Buff makes a nice version of the yellow brick found in some areas and it's surprising how the colour you choose for mortar will affect the appearance of the finished product. Various boxcar reds and browns also work well. I recently finished a factory ( I think it might be by Magnuson: I bought it as a bag of parts, some broken, some missing, for a buck) that I airbrushed with Floquil Reefer Orange and then used a dark grey wash of Polly Scale for the mortar. After a little airbrush weathering, I think that it does an excellent job of representing a type of brick common in my area. Brick, especially in earlier eras was often manufactured locally, so the colour varied by region. Don't be afraid to experiment: you can use the unseen side of a building or just buy a cheap kit on which to test various methods.

[Anonymous]

I have 4 brick colors in my inventory, red oxide primer, tan, Kalki, and Brown, all in spray cans. I'll use the thinned acylic paint with two drops of dishwashing detergent to add the motor lines. The detergent kills the surface tension of the water based paint and lets in flow into the motar cracks in the wall. Since motar rarely stays white I use a neutral grey for the color. I finish using my weathering chalk set to vary the colors in the wall.
here's a finished wall that I made for my factory/warehouse:

The flash makes the motar lines brighter than they really are.