Okay, I can suspend reality...How do you get the cars back.

[SpaceMouse]

Okay, if you've got a box car or a reefer, you can just say, "Now it's empty" and take it back for your industry to refill. Simple enough.

But I'm going to be doing lumber, and when the Heisler drags the logs home from the mountain top it supposedly dumps them into the pond and drags the empties back to the top of the hill. In the meantime it takes lumber to the rail spur to send to market. This too is supposed to come back empty. But you have empty log cars already waiting to be filled so you drag them up the hill and your freight train brings you back empies from the lumber yard.

Now is where you have to suspend reaility (in an imaginary game) somehow the empties have to get back to the mill and lumber yard and the lumber and the logs have to go back where they started. So what do you do?

Ol' Sam down at the mill yells, "This hyar lumber's fulla worms, I don' t care whar you dump it but ya cain't leave it here." So you take the lumber up to the top of the hill to get rid of it and Charlie says, "these cars are so plum rusted you put one log on here an I'm fraid thet couplers's gonna bust clean off. Better take it down ta get it fixed."

And Mr. Peterson at the lumber yard takes one look at the 2x12's on the flat car and sees the mistake. "This is pond dried lumber. I told you I want kiln dried lumber. Take it back"

[B)]

So how you get over this reality hump?

[Anonymous]

Its called re-staging. This is where after the session you come along and reset all the empties and full loads that are visible (logs, gravel, coal etc....) Some people have the old power station/ mill - mine track. Where in the mine and mill/ powerstation back each other on the opposite sides of a divider or mountain. they are connected by a track running through the mill and say out of the mine . Operation is pulling the full cars from the mine transporting them to the mill and basically shoving them into the mill where they can be acessed from the mine via the runthrough track.....cheesey but effective.

[rrinker]

Well, you can remove the loads at the appropriate destination, by hand.

Or, you can use the "Loads In, Empties Out" design, in the case of a lumber operation you probably wouldn't model EITHER of the actual structures. You design the track plan such that there is a hidden connection behind the producer and consumer (ex, a coal loader and a power plant). This connection is usually 2 or more tracks. At the power plant, you'd shove loaded coal hoppers in Track 1. At the coal loader end, you'd shover EMPTY hoppers in Track 2. Back at the power plant, after you shove those loads in on Track 1, you go to Track 2 and pull out - empty hoppers! Haul the empties back to the mine, shove them in on Track 2. Go back to Track 1 and pull out - loaded hoppers!

--Randy

[steveblackledge]

i plan to build another level on my railroad, it's got two levels with a long grade between the two, the third level is staging, the trick i will use is two sets of identical cars, or you could have removable loads

[DigitalGriffin]

Spacemouse,

It's not exactly fancy, but with a little work (kitbash), you could make this look good and it will do everything you want. Maybe with a dcc decoder you could remotely operate it.

http://www.lifelikeproducts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=21312&Category_Code=HOOP

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DigitalGriffin

Spacemouse,

It's not exactly fancy, but with a little work (kitbash), you could make this look good and it will do everything you want. Maybe with a dcc decoder you could remotely operate it.

http://www.lifelikeproducts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=21312&Category_Code=HOOP

Just set the computer program to restore, go to the bathroom come back and it is reset. I like it. [8D]

[SpaceMouse]

I know, have identical track layouts at both locations. then you just pick up the mill and move it to the lumber yard and move the lumber yard ot the mill and start over from different locations. Hmmm....

[Bob Hayes]

Kermit Paul has a logging operation on his HO layout. He uses plastic logs with metal rods in the center, and an electro magnet in a crane, I think, to pick up the logs and position them on the log cars. Then the cars are moved down to the log pond, and a plunger tilts the cars far enough for the logs to roll off into the log pond which is filled with water so they float. After the operating session, some one gathers the logs and returns them to the logging area. If you ship all your klin dried lumber in box cars, you won't have to worry about moving loaded cars back to the saw mill, or use the loads in, empties out idea as posted above.

Bob Hayes

[dinwitty]

It takes layout design. I am planning a multi-RR layout with maybe 2 put/Take operations for coal, loads in/empies out.

If I were to do logging I don't like the idea of dumping off the logs and manually resetting them all the time.
You have 2 scenes that are separated by scenery to visibly block the action on the other side.
Double track or somehow 2 track in some manner, however your design goes,
You might have a logging area that has multiple tracks to pick up cars, just match them up for the offload point.

[tatans]

At one point in time with model railroading you must admit to yourself : this is MODEL railroading. It is not REAL railroading. There are very real specific limits as to what is possible, there are 50 things I wish I could do, but I know they are completely impossible, but fun to think about, enjoy the trains for what they are.

[Anonymous]

Chip, it's basically been stated above, but you could have a train coming down from out of a tunnel (or out from behind a dense stand of trees, etc.) in the mountain loaded with logs, headed for the sawmill. When the train nears the sawmill, it goes behind the mill and into a hidden tunnel which is the start of an inclined out of sight track that returns the train to the point of origin, without ever being unloaded. This way, the only time the loaded train is visible, it is heading in the right direction for the load being carried. The only problem with this is that you would not see the empties going back to the point of origin. It depends on how you want to run your layout.

-Joe

[tutaenui]

I have a double deck point to point coal mining themed layout, with loads going down the hill to a wharf for trans shipment and empties return up the hill. I made a couple of train length cassettes which plug into the end of the wharf and I manually transfer loads up to the end of the mine siding and empties in the reverse direction. Not very realistic maybe but better than hauling loads back up to the mine

[dinwitty]

heh, thats where Walther's Carfloat series works well, thats in my plans tho I will use it for general traffic with 2 load points. And its a great way to get cars on/off the layout in a realistic way than just dropping cars anywhere on the layout, you can introduce them into the operating.

don't really like just running the log train around in circles, old hat running. its operation for me.
If your gonna make the logging line, make the off branch switches to pick up cars or drop off.

[Don Gibson]

1. IMAGINATION.Return the (full) cars and pretend they are empties and do the reverse.

2. BIG HOOK. Remove some loose logs by hand an transfer by hand.

3. MODEL. Cut a hole and build a dump.

[Jetrock]

Logs were normally dumped into a pond by means of a device called a "jill poke"--essentially a big lever that shoved the logs off the car into the pond. If one's log pond was suitably durable you could model a jill poke using a Tortoise switch machine to rotate a stick to knock logs into the pond--then at end-session return them to the logging site.

How much of the logging operation do you intend to model, SpaceMouse? Actual cutting of trees and loading onto flats or disconnects at the logging site, cutting of lumber at the mill, or sending lumber to distributors?

One thing that is made easier: Most cut lumber being sent out to distributors during the steam era was sent in boxcars. If you've ever seen old boxcars and noticed a little door high on the car on the ends, it is intended for loading lumber in that is too long to fit in through the side door. So that solves one "visible load" problem right there, and logs are pretty easy to just grab manually after you reach the mill.

I'm one of those folks who doesn't mind handling things on the layout. I think reaching into a layout to throw a switch or uncouple a car is more realistic than pressing a button. So for me, reaching in to unload a gondola or logging disconnect is no different.