Lots of iffy and some outright bad estate planning advice in the Diner over the past few days. If I were writing the MR Forum Policies, I would add legal advice (including estate planning) to the following list of MR Forum Policies of banned topics: race, religion, ethnicity, sex, violence, guns, abortion, politics, unions and immigration. As an open forum, visible to the general public, a lot of harm can occur from following bad legal advice. If you are concerned about your own estate planning, visit an attorney who specializes in estate planning.
Rich
Alton Junction
howmus About a year ago I put all my property (IE: my house) in Trust for my two son's. As per the trust, they now "own" the property but I pay all costs (utilities and taxes, etc.) as long as I reside here. My youngest son (in the UK) is the executor of the Trust. The purpose of the "Trust" is that if I end up in a nursing home or some similar place, they cannot take the property for payment for my care.
About a year ago I put all my property (IE: my house) in Trust for my two son's. As per the trust, they now "own" the property but I pay all costs (utilities and taxes, etc.) as long as I reside here. My youngest son (in the UK) is the executor of the Trust. The purpose of the "Trust" is that if I end up in a nursing home or some similar place, they cannot take the property for payment for my care.
Is that completely true? Will the trust survive the Medicaid 5-year look-back? I wouldn't be patting yourself on the back just yet.
Good morning!
Bill Tidler Jr.
Near a cornfield in Indiana...
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Now then, cn anybody tell me where my leopard got off to?
My parents had a will and my brother was the execuitor. YThe property was to be divided four ways. But while they were alive they went into Assisted Living, first in Pennsylvania, but then in North Carolina, since Russell was the executor, and the closest to Pennsylvania some 12 hours away.
Once trhey went to Assisted Living wes sold thier car and put the money in their piggy bank. We then sold the house, and got a good price for it. The carpenter who worked on the house wanted it, and so we let him know that it was now availalble, he named a price and we put that too in the piggy bank.
With Dad's IRA and other monies, they were able to live quite well, and if the money ran out before they did they would have to move to a nursing home where the county would have to piock up the bill.
But the VA paid a sum about half the cost of the assisted living, but would not pay toward a nursing home.
Anyway, they passed away before the monewy did and after taking care of the last expenses Russell divided the remaing money between us, closed the bookd, and that was that. No lawlers, no government, no expenses, jusst that and nothing more.
ja beargmpullman: This completely eliminates any mention in a will, which can be disputed... And I thought that we were the only place stupid enough to allow wills to be contested!!
And I thought that we were the only place stupid enough to allow wills to be contested!!
I got a rude awakening in this arena back in 2008 when a good friend in neighboring Indiana passed away. In his will he left everything to me.
Two weeks after his passing I received a certified letter saying I was being sued. A casual friend of the deceased was contesting the will and it was up to me to defend my status.
Well things really got tossed around and in the end, all of the deceased assets were auctioned off at pennies on the dollar. Out of a $350K estate, legal fees ate up 90% of the assets. Even the executor, called a personal representative in Indiana, had to hire his own attorney since he couldn't represent himself.
One deposition alone cost $15,000 with travel expenses and stenographers, plus more lawyers.
Yes, this person had a will and the lawyer that drew up the will was present. Mysteriously, a second will appeared out of nowhere, a codicil, and complicated the whole mess.
My expenses were covered but the $350K had vaporized into the pockets of the SEVEN lawyers, plus court costs, involved.
Having a 'boiler plate' will isn't always a guarantee of a fair and equitable outcome.
If the aggrieved party would have simply contacted me I would have explained that I was planning to divide the estate up between all the affected parties in a fair and equitable manner. As it turned out there was nothing left to divide.
If at all possible, have as many assets as that are qualified with designated beneficiaries. This avoids probate in most cases. ALL my financial accounts are set up this way and a will has no effect on them. The financial institutions make the transfer of assets automatically after being sent the death certificate. I can name primary beneficiaries and alternate beneficiaries in the event one or more of the primaries are deceased.
Our real estate holdings are all TOD or transferable on death.
Another thing that greatly helped us was contacting the county department on aging or whatever senior assistance programs your area may have. Dee Ann and I had our complete wills, powers of medical and financial attorney and living wills drawn up for very little cost. Our county senior center has a list of attorneys that they recommend for estate planning. Look into it if you can.
I attended a free seminar conducted by our county's probate judge and the advice I learned there was invaluable.
Cheers, Ed
My son Cole, DIL Kaitlin and I made a big decision today. We have been working with a kitchen cabinet company and a contractor to replace Cole and Kaitlin's kitchen. We finally got a quote from them last week and it was astronomical!!! The kitchen is roughly 15' x 12' and there are a total of 19 cabinets required. The only cabinet that will be expensive will be the pantry. The rest are all quite straight forward. All we want is a simple Shaker design. The contractors are asking for more than $120,000.00 Cdn.!! Tomorrow I'm going to tell them to take a hike, in the nicest possible way of course!
We are back to square one kitchen wise, but our stress levels just went down big time!
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
CNCharlieSigning authority is not necassarily joint ownership, it depends on the wording of the documents setting it up. Just a note of caution.
Hi CN Charlie,
You are correct. I guess I used the wrong wording. The assets should be in joint ownership if I understand properly.
Afternoon folks!
Interesting conversation on Estate Law and such.... My first comment (having delt with some of this personally) is to be sure to first thing, sit down with your lawyer and find out what can be done and what is the best route for where you live!
I think I need to continue residing here in my home for about one more year for the document to take full effect, and I'm not planning on going anywhere else soon...
My Father way back when, did something similar which ended up protecting his children in the end. He outright gave us the property and we made an agreement to send our parents $$$ every month to help them pay their bills. Dad kept accurate records of every check we sent so when he died I (I was put in charge of the contract, as he did not trust my sister who lived nearby and my older sister was in Florida. He wanted someone close by....) handled all the final accounting.
After he died, my mother ended up in an assisted living facilty. That cost was actually paid for from the sale of the property. My Mom ended up breaking her hip and falling (in that order) and spent the last few weeks of her life in a Nursing Home. The BICT....., ah... Woman in charge of the financial office there, accused us of stealing our parents home and insisted we pay what we sold it for to the Nursing Home and was going to take us to court. I got a "cease and desist" letter from my Father's Lawyer telling her what we would do to her if she didn't and that my Father did NOT own the house! I walked in her office with the letter and insisted on talking to her NOW!!!! She finally came out and I handed an envelope to her. She gave me a nasty smirk thinging it was a check for the County Home (Nursing Home). She read it, threw it in my face and slammed the door going back in her office. I made an evil gesture as she did that. Her secretary saw the whole thing and applauded my handling of the matter!!!!
Sometimes you win one!
Each of us need to find out what the laws and policies are of where we live and act on them!
73
Ray Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.) in HO
We'll get there sooner or later!
Good Morning,
Dave, I read your post and the recommendation contained therein. It gave me concern. I was responsible for all legal matters concerning dealers in my job for over 30 years. I dealt with lawyers in all 10 provinces. All dealer contracts and registered security were my resposibility so I do know a fair bit about contract law. I was the executor for my mothers estate. Her investments were held jointly with me and that caused me issues with Revenue Canada. As there isn't estate tax here it was done for other reasons. Signing authority is not necassarily joint ownership, it depends on the wording of the documents setting it up. Just a note of caution.
Well, it is balmy outside, 11F and may go up to 15! If this keeps up I think I will get the car washed later in the week. It needs it.
Got an interesting book for Christmas, American Steam by William Withuhn. Well written by some sections are a little too technical.
Think I will order another display case. The CP Hudson is in a cheap plastic one and at least deserves one with a fake wood base.
Time for coffee.
CN Charlie
hon30critter BATMAN Better have a Will in place I totally agree!! It took a couple of years of nagging, but our son and DIL finally got their wills last year just before the baby was born. I would suggest doing something else (assuming that it is legal in your neck of the woods). That is to give the person who will be your executor signing authority on all of your bank accounts and your investments (assuming that you have full trust in them of course). They then become part owners of all of your assets. When you pass away those assets do not have to be listed in your will and will not be taxable because they essentially become the property of the executor. You can leave instructions for the money to be distributed just as you would in your will. Again, you have to have full trust in the person that they will follow your instructions and not run off to Timbuktoo with suitcases full of cash! Caveat: I am not an expert on this stuff! Talk to your accountant. Cheers!! Dave
BATMAN Better have a Will in place
I totally agree!! It took a couple of years of nagging, but our son and DIL finally got their wills last year just before the baby was born.
I would suggest doing something else (assuming that it is legal in your neck of the woods). That is to give the person who will be your executor signing authority on all of your bank accounts and your investments (assuming that you have full trust in them of course). They then become part owners of all of your assets. When you pass away those assets do not have to be listed in your will and will not be taxable because they essentially become the property of the executor. You can leave instructions for the money to be distributed just as you would in your will. Again, you have to have full trust in the person that they will follow your instructions and not run off to Timbuktoo with suitcases full of cash!
Caveat: I am not an expert on this stuff! Talk to your accountant.
Sorry Dave, but this is just bad, bad advice.
A person came to me in shock as he was presented with a huge tax bill. He was put on the title of his mom's house, and years later when she died he sold the house. The trouble was he already owned his own house and because he already had his one principal residence he had to pay capital gains tax on his Mom's house. If he had just inherited the house as part of the Estate he would have had to pay Probate on the value of the house but that would have been a small fraction of what he paid in capital gains tax.
Giving someone a POA with or without restrictions is a very good idea, especially when it comes to deteriorating health. Just remember a POA has no power once a person dies. A POA cannot even draw money from a bank account to pay for expenses such as cremation or funeral. An Executor must be in place that is named in the Will.
Everyone's situation is different. Everyone should have a Will, even if you have minimal assets, it just makes things a whole lot easier for your partner and loved ones on so many fronts.
The very least you should do is have a Notary draw up your Will using proper legalese. Whatever it costs is money well spent. If you have more assets and depending on who the beneficiary is, a Lawyer, Tax Lawyer, and/or Accountant should be consulted.
The only advice I ever give to people when it comes to Estates is what professionals they need to go talk to.
Also, Laws are different between countries, Provinces/States. Other than telling someone to get a Will, advice should only be given by professionals.
Edit: I see I am on the hook for breakfast, so eat up!
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Post deleted.
Morning everyone. Flo, just a coffee.
Appears my wife or my daughter gave me whatever cold they've been fighting. Mostly just sore throat, but still. I have to travel for work this week. Not looking forward to it.
TF, you may also be able to find a notary at your bank/credit union. Ours offers that service for free.
York1, my grandma did that with a bunch of their belongings before they passed. Problem was in her later years she forgot she did that and gave away a bunch of stuff that was supposed to go to others.
Mike
Good morning, everyone. It's donut day, so I'll just have coffee, Chloe.
Yesterday we drove to see grandkids. Leaving our town along the interstate, we were surprised at the number of cars in the median or along the ditches. Lots of people tried to drive through last week's blizzard and didn't make it.
When our daughters and families were all at our house, we had them go through the house and put their names on anything that they want when we die. They all have so much stuff in their adult lives, there's not much they want except for sentimental things. That was mostly wall art. None of it is expensive or valuable, just sentimental. Nobody put a name on my trains.
Have a great Sunday!
Madagascar:
Fianarantsoa train station - Madagascar by René Collin, on Flickr
York1 John
gmpullmanThis completely eliminates any mention in a will, which can be disputed...
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
BATMANBetter have a Will in place or it will likely go to the Feds. Transferring a vehicle of the deceased is as simple as changing any ownership of a car if there is a Will in place. Trying to do it without a Will in place is possible, however, the legal cost can often run a lot more than the vehicle is worth, so most just walk away.
TF, after dealing with my parents' estate and my inlaws' estate, I will echo what Brent suggested.
Edit: After I posted I read Ed's post. While I don't know anything about it, it sounds like a good deal if you want to make sure someone gets your car.
BATMANTransferring a vehicle of the deceased is as simple as changing any ownership of a car if there is a Will in place.
Please look into TOD or Transferable on Death for a vehicle title. This completely eliminates any mention in a will, which can be disputed, and avoids probate on said vehicle. TOD also makes the tax situation easier. Some states may have an inheritance tax where TOD usually eliminates this.
Many car dealers don't mention it but you can designate a beneficiary at no cost when you purchase the car and have the original title drawn up. If you want to add a TOD beneficiary after the fact you'll probably have to pay the title filing fee and clerk costs. Varies by state.
Here's an example of Ohio law:
As the sole owner of a motor vehicle, watercraft, or outboard motor, an individual may designate a beneficiary or beneficiaries to an Ohio title with a signed and notarized Affidavit to Designate a Beneficiary (form BMV 3811) submitted to a County Clerk of Courts Title Office.
A Transfer on Death beneficiary needs to bring:
Ohio Revised Code: 2131.13
BroadwayLion
That is one Handsome looking Kitty Cat Brother Lion.
Perhaps a little bit too much fuzz on tail though...
TF
A big wagy tail indeed. Thanks Charlie, I'm gonna fix this soon.
Good Afternoon,
Been a quiet week here. I did go for my annual physical. Just waiting for the lab results.
TF, I second Brent's advice for having a will. There are many kits available so you can do one yourself but be careful about how you sign it. I eould recommend you do it before a Notary. Here insurance agents sometimes are and they will charge a lot less than a lawyer. As part of my job I was a Notary for my company. I had to surender my official seal to the government when I retired.
I think it is time for a cup of Yorkshire Gold,
Thanks Brent.
I'm gonna start working on this
Good morning from the slushy West where the big melt is on. We are down to 30cm.
Track fiddler Can see how that would work. The Mach 1 is definitely going to 2 my Jeremy. My stepson. No matter, no matter how that would work He is my best kid My Jeremy TF
Can see how that would work.
The Mach 1 is definitely going to 2 my Jeremy. My stepson. No matter, no matter how that would work
He is my best kid
My Jeremy
Better have a Will in place or it will likely go to the Feds.
Transferring a vehicle of the deceased is as simple as changing any ownership of a car if there is a Will in place. Trying to do it without a Will in place is possible, however, the legal cost can often run a lot more than the vehicle is worth, so most just walk away.
You know all those cars that you see sitting in fields that when they were put there were in great shape? A simple piece of paper called a Will would have allowed them to continue to roll down the highway.
Both my kids had Wills as soon as they were legal age. They were not getting a dime if they didn't.
John (York) I was just about to ask you if you could post a video of the trolly and it showed up. It is very cool, I often wish I had a way to fit one in on my layout, but so far no great ideas.
It is our 26th anniversary today, didn't get married until I was 40. My wife and I were good friends for 14 years before we hooked up in a serious way. Everyone knew I would empty my bucket list before I settled down and I did. I saw too many of my friends get married and have kids at a young age only to be pinching pennies for the next 30 years. That was not for me, I had things to do.
I can hear a lot of water running with the big melt, I am glad we are at the top of the hill, I bet there is some real flooding going on in places.
Canucks and Leafs tonight. Up until then, it is train time.
All the best to all.
Derek was kind of down and out.
Not too good.
He might get by with that!
He got one hundith from me, one hundith from my judith, and one hundith from Sister Barb.
He might be OK now.
We'll just have to wait and see.
The Mach 1 is definitely going 2 my Jeremy. My stepson. No matter, no matter how that would work
In addition to camouflaging them, a snow leopard's soft, dense fur keeps it warm in thebitter cold. Their large paws work like snowshoes, letting the cat walk on snow withoutsinking. And their long, heavy tail helps them keep their balance while they're chasing prey.Snow leopards have spotted white-greyish fur that keeps them well insulated in cold weather – it can be
5cm long on their back and sides and almost 12cm long on their belly.
York1I finally got the streetcar to run, stop at the end points, reverse, and run again. Next is to work on adding streets. This is a boring video of the streetcar running. Hope the video works here.
So no intermediate stops? No, not even one?
The trolley poles did not switch at the end of the lion.
Taking off to see grandchildren. I will try to check in to the diner later.
Train in Congo:
Congo Ocean railway by jbdodane, on Flickr