Dear Folk,
Can you put HO trucks on HOn3 models without any problem? Or even if they could fit, do they look wrong (like stick out too much on the sides, etc.)?
I really like some of the craftsmen wood car models, but many are in HOn3; and I'm running standard HO track.
Thanks,
Mike
There are plenty of standard HO kits, way more than HOn3 and many just as detailed, La Belle for one.
I'd still like an anser to my questions.
mam Dear Folk, Can you put HO trucks on HOn3 models without any problem? Or even if they could fit, do they look wrong (like stick out too much on the sides, etc.)? I really like some of the craftsmen wood car models, but many are in HOn3; and I'm running standard HO track. Thanks, Mike
We can't answer your question about sticking out the sides without knowing the width of the trucks and car you're considering. Narrow gauge equipment is usually smaller in all dimensions.
As far as operational issues, the wheelbase and overall length of the trucks could be a problem, as longer trucks could interfere with underframe parts. The longer trucks could also stick out past the end of the car.
I think the answer is yes, if you're building a wood kit of a narrow gauge car, you could build it in such a way that it would work with standard gauge trucks. BUT it will always look like a narrow gauge car with standard gauge trucks.
As noted there are many model kits for early wood std gauge cars out there.
Thanks for answers. Looks like it is possible to put standard trucks on a narrow gauge car, but it would be car-specific as to IF it would work and what you'd need to do to make it look good, and it would still look odd.
The prototypes did do a truck swap from standard to narrow gauge in some interchange operations insteadof cross dock loading. Some cars are designed for that. As far as I know. No passenger cars were. So the actual answer is depends. So prototype wise it was done, so it should be doable in model form too. Would be an interesting interchange to model, especially if you could find a way to do the swap out.
shane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
NVSRR The prototypes did do a truck swap from standard to narrow gauge in some interchange operations insteadof cross dock loading. Some cars are designed for that. As far as I know. No passenger cars were. So the actual answer is depends. So prototype wise it was done, so it should be doable in model form too. Would be an interesting interchange to model, especially if you could find a way to do the swap out. shane
I know of operations where standard gauge cars were swapped onto narrow gauge trucks. Is there documentation of narrow gauge cars getting standard gauge trucks?
I recently swaped out On30 trucks for O scale trucks on On30 passenger cars. The trucks do look a bit large but it's dooable. I agree, it depends on the car.
There's an interesting article on Wikipedia about Bogie exchanges on prototypes in European countries between railway systems using different gauges. Even locos would be converted (diesel).
Simon
There are examples of narrow gage trucks being swapped out on real railroads. Easier than unloading a car, just to reload into a standard gauge car .
I can't remember which railroads did this type of " interchange".
Rust...... It's a good thing !
Keep in mind when someone says "boxcar" many of us picture a 40'-6" long x 10'-6" high steel standard gauge boxcar...but that car didn't really become a 'thing' until the mid/late 1930s. Before that, cars were generally more like 8'-6" high. 36' long cars were typical around 1900 or so, before that, 34' and 28' cars were being used. If you search around, you can find old-time standard gauge cars that were probably pretty close to size to the narrow gauge cars you're looking at getting.
https://www.labellemodels.com/scale-freight-cars-c-21_24.html
https://www.labellemodels.com/scale-passenger-cars-c-21_23.html
Most, ( if not all) of Model die Casting old timer cars were based on narrow gauge cars.
They all look at home on either standerd, or narrow gauge trucks.
East Broadtop in Pennsylvania which interchanged with the Pennsylvania at Mt. Union, Pa. They had a covered crane where they would lift the car and walk narrow or standard gauge trucks as required
ndbprr East Broadtop in Pennsylvania which interchanged with the Pennsylvania at Mt. Union, Pa. They had a covered crane where they would lift the car and walk narrow or standard gauge trucks as required
Yes, they put narrow gague trucks on standard gauge cars. Did the opposite ever occur? I find it hard to believe the Pennsylvania Railroad would accept that.
Little Timmy There are examples of narrow gage trucks being swapped out on real railroads. Easier than unloading a car, just to reload into a standard gauge car . I can't remember which railroads did this type of " interchange".
I've never heard of that happening. I could very well be wrong, but documented examples are necessary.
The Newfoundland Railway (1898 - 1988) was narrow gauge, and they would swap standard gauge trucks out of the cars coming from the mainland.
The railway was never financially successful, but during WWII it played a crucial roll in getting supplies to the Newfoundland ports to be shipped overseas.
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter The Newfoundland Railway (1898 - 1988) was narrow gauge, and they would swap standard gauge trucks out of the cars coming from the mainland.
Did the Newfoundland Railway send narrow gauge cars to the mainland to be placed on standard gauge trucks?
Again, I am well aware of standard gauge cars being placed on narrow gauge trucks. I am not aware of the opposite occurring. It seems extremely unlikely that narrow gauge railroads could afford (or would want) to build their equipment to standard gauge interchange standards.
Hi AEP528
Sorry, I got my wires crossed so my answer wasn't useful.
When the Newfoundland Railway was being dismantled some of their narrow gauge passenger cars were brought to the mainland. I'll see if I can find out where they went and what gauge the receiving railroad used.
I realize that this doesn't qualify as an on going practice so it isn't exactly what you are looking for.
Midland terminal railroad is one such line that did indeed take narrow gauge and adapt it for standard gauge use. Apparently colarado midland and drgw did the same. Drgw is a good candidate for more recent since they had narrow gauge territory up til 1968. Ever notcie how thier cabooses, box cars, reefers, and stock cars seam huge over the narrow gauge trucks? I can't find anything but seams to be the only road that used standard designs to build both gauges. As they made the system standard gauge, any rebuilt cars were adapted to standard gauge use. I do not see any where that says they were in interchange service though, just home road service. So yes. Thier are a few examples of narrow gauge being used on standard gauge. Mostly on ex narrow gauge lines. Makes sense for clearances too.
While there were a few railroads that did it on the prototype-(by the way they had to change the bolsters and everything) it would not work for pretty much most all models. The width of the trucks make it pretty much impossible. Standard gauge trucks will fowl the truss rods, the end of the car and the sides of the car. (and note that is with the truck sitting further in- otherwise it would be past the end of the car) Narrow gauge trucks in most cases "hunkered down" inside the car body too. You are far better to get some of the Labelle old time series that will get you a similar looking car that is actually prototypical and wide enough to accomadate stuck swing- Jim
NVSRR Midland terminal railroad is one such line that did indeed take narrow gauge and adapt it for standard gauge use. Apparently colarado midland and drgw did the same. Drgw is a good candidate for more recent since they had narrow gauge territory up til 1968. Ever notcie how thier cabooses, box cars, reefers, and stock cars seam huge over the narrow gauge trucks? I can't find anything but seams to be the only road that used standard designs to build both gauges. As they made the system standard gauge, any rebuilt cars were adapted to standard gauge use. I do not see any where that says they were in interchange service though, just home road service. So yes. Thier are a few examples of narrow gauge being used on standard gauge. Mostly on ex narrow gauge lines. Makes sense for clearances too. shane
Midland Terminal came out of the Colorado Midland bankruptcy and used much of their equipment- but they were mot appricable smaller than other equipment of the time- here is a CM boxcar next to a Santa Fe box in 1888- same width- however both are wider than a narrow gauge car. The lengths tended to be similar in the 1860's- 1890's era but the widths were wider although not as wide as the next generation of cars.
During the transition from narrow to standard gauge on the Denver and Rio Grande/ Rio Grande Western there were cars that were put onto standard gauge trucks however that was a very temporary measure and more complicated than a truck swap- bolsters and trucks were generally a matched pair. This switch did not last long before new standard gauge equipment arrived. Such a swap does not really translate to model form though. I have Central Valley HOn3 trucks that won't go on a lot of equipment due to tolerences let alone standard gauge trucks.
Jim
Might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Colorado Midland was a standard gauge railroad?
Back c.1880 when narrow gauge started to catch on in the US, the size difference in equipment between narrow and standard gauge wasn't all that much - standard gauge cars were only around 6' tall, 24-28' long. As time went on, the size of cars and engines increased, but at some point the existing track, bridges, tunnels etc. on the narrow gauge stopped their being able to use larger equipment. This was a big reason many narrow gauge lines were standard gauged (or abandoned) in the 20th century.
wjstix Might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Colorado Midland was a standard gauge railroad? Back c.1880 when narrow gauge started to catch on in the US, the size difference in equipment between narrow and standard gauge wasn't all that much - standard gauge cars were only around 6' tall, 24-28' long. As time went on, the size of cars and engines increased, but at some point the existing track, bridges, tunnels etc. on the narrow gauge stopped their being able to use larger equipment. This was a big reason many narrow gauge lines were standard gauged (or abandoned) in the 20th century.
The Colorado Midland was standard gauge. It had been mentioned that their cars were narrow gauge sized. However while they were similar in length as were most of that era but they were wider and somewhat taller. In the past I had cut down some Bachmann old time cars to narrow gauge size- they needed to be narrowed as well as shortened slightly. The body itself was about the same height not figuring the trucks and underframe/ bolster height.
NVSRRMidland terminal railroad is one such line that did indeed take narrow gauge and adapt it for standard gauge use. ...
Can you cite some examples? According to Tracking Ghost Railroads in Colorado by Robert Ormes, the Midland Terminal was initially graded for narrow gauge, but was regraded for standard gauge before track was laid. In the Cripple Creek District theere was some coordination between the Florence and Cripple Creek narrow gauge and the MT, but ore picked up on the narrow gauge was transferred ("shoveled") into standard gauge cars at Walker Transfer and Bull Hill.
The Midland Terminal was definitely always a standard gauge operation; it was built as a standard gauge connection to bring the Colorado Midland into the Cripple Creek mining district, which at that point was served only by the narrow gauge Florence and Cripple Creek. Mel McFarland's book on the MT is the best history of that road, but it also got excellent coverage in Morris Carly's "Rails Around Gold Hill," which covers the railroads in the District. The MT may have been projected as a narrow gauge operation, but it was definitely built as a standard gauge line, to tie more efficiently into the Colorado Midland (which was also standard gauge from the start).
Some very early standard gauge equipment was short enough and narrow enough that narrow gauge models can almost be used to simulate it, but that's mostly pre-1890 equipment, with car lengths of 28' or less. Some of the old Red Ball kits (I have their 1878 hopper in mind) were sold as either standard or narrow gauge, depending on the trucks underneath them. It can look prototypical, but you have to be modeling the pre-1900 era to use them in standard gauge service.
http://mprailway.blogspot.com
"The first transition era - wood to steel!"
BTW, both the CM and MT boxcar fleets included nothing shorter than a 34' boxcar (some of the gondolas were shorter, but the CM was built late enough in the 1880s that it never had 28' box cars, although some of its 34' equipment was dimensionally smaller than typical 40' cars).
One other clarification- the MT originally ran only from a connection with the CM at Divide into the Cripple Creek District, but after the Colorado Midland's abandonment, the MT took over the line from Divide to Colorado City, so that rail service into the District could continue (both the other roads into the District, the Florence and Cripple Creek and the Colorado Springs and Cripple Creek District having also been abandoned).
MidlandPacific Some very early standard gauge equipment was short enough and narrow enough that narrow gauge models can almost be used to simulate it, but that's mostly pre-1890 equipment, with car lengths of 28' or less. Some of the old Red Ball kits (I have their 1878 hopper in mind) were sold as either standard or narrow gauge, depending on the trucks underneath them. It can look prototypical, but you have to be modeling the pre-1900 era to use them in standard gauge service.
Laconia made a Sierra Coach and Combine that were actually pretty close to narrow gauge width. I believe that the MDC models were made using the same general prototype. The MDC ones however are noticably wider. The Gould/ Tichy ore cars are pretty close on width too.
I initially purchased some of the IHC Old Timers and maintainence of way cars for narrow gauge use. The tank car is right at narrow gauge width and I have several. They are even an easy conversion- I used MDC trucks and scale head couplers in the existing draft gear boxes and they came out at correct height although the pin required work. The others are wide and the difference is noticeable. I did narrow down one of the bunk cars and it was a fair amount of work but looks OK The extra width stands out far more on the house cars. The gondolas look OK but are wide- enough to wind up with a couple of clearance issues.
The prototype for the MDC Overton cars is generally assumed to be a coach and combine owned by the Sierra Railroad, which was standard gauge; there have been multiple offerings by different manufacturers over the decades for these cars, but I couldn't say how close they were to being dimensionally correct. IIRC, when Malcolm Furlow built has San Juan Central project, he cut a longitudinal section out of the cars to narrow them.
Most Of the MDC old-timer cars are based on standard gauge prototypes, but the tank cars may be an exception (although as they were built to share castings with other kits, in this case the log bunks, I don't know how structurally accurate they are).
For a narrow gauge car, 34'-40' is usually the outer limit, a lot of the fleet was in the 26'-30' range. There are some standard gauge kits that are adaptable, I would recommend Bob Sloan's book on D&RGW freight cars or the two volumes of Harry Brunk's collected columns in the NG&SLG for accurate dimensional data.