At long last I have built a spray booth and equipped it with an air filter and exhaust fan to vent the fumes. So, now I am ready to paint a series of 12 Walthers Mainline passenger cars. These are brand new painted and unlettered cars.
My original intent was to paint these cars with Scalecoat II, but since it has been discontinued, I decided to choose a high quality acrylic paint. I have narrowed my search down to Tamiya and Vallejo. I am interested in your opinions and experience with each brand.
My plan is to wash the cars, then prime them, and then spray paint them with an airbrush. I do have questions about primers, thinners, and flow improvers.
I look forward to your comments and suggestions.
Rich
Alton Junction
Rich,
I mentioned this to you before. Although neither airbrushing nor acrylic, I've been very happy with the Tamiya "TS" (lacquer) spray paints. It goes on thin and I've had zero issues with covering up fine detailing. I would expect the same with their acrylics and with using an airbrush.
I mentioned this to you before. Although neither airbrushing nor acrylic, I've been very happy with the Tamiya "TS" (lacquer) spray paints. It goes on thin and I've had zero issues with covering up fine detailing. I would expect the same with their acrylics and with using an airbrush. I've only brushpainted with Vallejo.
FWIW,
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Since the bare plastic already has a coat of aluminum paint I would skip the primer step. One process I've used for the 'stainless-steel' look is the Alclad II product and that does require a base coat ofgray but in the case of your already painted cars I would try the Alclad II directly over the Walthers paint.
I don't use Alclad any more since I've found what I consider a superior product and that's the Molotow chrome paint. It is a little tricky to shoot just right. You have to keep the leading edge wet and the stuff dries almost instantaneously.
Stainless-paint by Edmund, on Flickr
NKP_P-S_coach-1 by Edmund, on Flickr
In the case of this brass 21 roomette car I DID use primer since I was going over bare metal. I used Tamiya rattle-can primer and the Molotow chrome over that:
Budd_PRR_Inn-end by Edmund, on Flickr
Budd_PRR_Inn by Edmund, on Flickr
My experience with Vallejo is that the paint, while it looks great, does not have very good adhesion and would not hold up well to even moderate handling of the rolling stock.
Therefore, between the two brands you mention, I'd experiment with the Tamiya.
Good Luck, Ed
Rich, it might be worth your time to call both Dana's Railroad Supply in Spring Hill, Florida and Gulf Coast Model Railroading in Sarasota, Florida.
The last time I visited these stores they still had a selection of Scalecoat on the shelves.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
tstage Rich, I mentioned this to you before. Although neither airbrushing nor acrylic, I've been very happy with the Tamiya "TS" (lacquer) spray paints. It goes on thin and I've had zero issues with covering up fine detailing. I would expect the same with their acrylics and with using an airbrush. FWIW, Tom
SeeYou190 Rich, it might be worth your time to call both Dana's Railroad Supply in Spring Hill, Florida and Gulf Coast Model Railroading in Sarasota, Florida. The last time I visited these stores they still had a selection of Scalecoat on the shelves. -Kevin
gmpullman Since the bare plastic already has a coat of aluminum paint I would skip the primer step.
Since the bare plastic already has a coat of aluminum paint I would skip the primer step.
gmpullmanOne process I've used for the 'stainless-steel' look is the Alclad II product and that does require a base coat ofgray but in the case of your already painted cars I would try the Alclad II directly over the Walthers paint.
gmpullmanMy experience with Vallejo is that the paint, while it looks great, does not have very good adhesion and would not hold up well to even moderate handling of the rolling stock. Therefore, between the two brands you mention, I'd experiment with the Tamiya. Good Luck, Ed
In researching this issue, using a primer is often recommended. Is priming only necessary if the original paint is stripped off?
Before starting this thread, I had established a preference for Vallejo, specifically Model Air, since it is formulated for airbrush use and does not require thinner. Tamiya requires thinner for airbrush use. Any thoughts on this?
Rich) Im sorry I cant give you the answer you asked for, just offering this as FYI info. You can skip this post if you want.
I dont spray primer coats because i use an underlying color sometimes to enhance the top color. So the underlying color i suppose could be construed as a primer.
Im one step behind you, no paint booth yet. I do have the air brush, compressor, and a few parts. So congrats on getting yours done - hope you get many hours out of it. Im still using rattle cans (UGH!).
To that end, I have found Tamiya to be a good substitute for the yesteryear paints. Havent tried Vallejo yet. Their availability doesnt seem to be that of Tamiya. And I can still find Testors in the same size rattle can. But Testors in a bottle for air brushing.... ?????. I find them, but question their newness.
Now, RustOleum owns Testors now, and I think for now they are still producing Testors. However, the spray patterns I get from the rattle cans are just aweful. Spatter, splotches, spitting, and spitooey! They make a nice paint but it goes on like oatmeal. Hard to judge this for air brushing but i think it would be a good paint.
I know youve past rattle can territory now, so im just saying I give a thumbs up to Tamiya. Vallejo, um maybe. Testors - if you can find it Id try it, atleast one.
Lastly, I wouldnt primer yet let the factory paint be your primer. Every layer of paint/primer is one layer less of detail that shows because your covering it up. I know thats super fine thinking but layers add up.
Happy Painting!
Douglas
PS: dang nice looking set of cars! I know you want different but they already look like all they need is a "Sante Fe" across the panel boards and a trio of Warbonnets up front. Great looking set!
Douglas, thanks for that post. I found it interesting and thought provoking.
I already have two sets of the Walthers Santa Fe cars and two sets of F7ABBA Warbonnet consists. I bough these painted unlettered Walthers Mainline cars to simulate Monon passenger coaches. I am glad that you like them.
richhotrain I will be repainting the cars in red/gray and black/gold.
richhotrainEd, when you say that Vallejo does not have very good adhesion and will not hold up well to even moderate handling of the rolling stock, what will happen?
For years I used PollyScale for structure and some rolling stock painting. For me that stuff dried like true baked enamel, it was very durable. I still have some that has adhered to some of my painting equipment (mixing stirrers and such) that the only way to remove it is with a sharp scraper.
As my supply of PollyScale began to dwindle I stocked up on my next best choice (after experimenting unsuccessfully with Badger ModelFlex) which was Vallejo.
Vallejo is excellent for brush painting. It is good for airbrushing, too (I use both Model-Air and regular line thinned using their thinner). On structures I was used to the PollyScale going right over the bare plastic after a wash to remove the mold release. It made a very durable coating that would stand up to normal handling and, indeed, if you needed to remove any paint say for a gluing surface you would have to sand it or scrape it off.
After some of my first attempts with Vallejo in the airbrush on bare plastic structures I found I could certainly achieve the look I wanted and a great choice of colors, or even mixed to my liking but the paint could easily be scraped off with my finger nail even after three days of curing.
Using Tamiya primer over the bare plastic was a big improvement but the Vallejo could still be scraped off with just a little more effort.
This is my experience anyway. Others might have some trick to make the finish bond better or perhaps using an overcoat of Dullcote or other clear finish might help.
BEAUSABREI agree that the Red and Gray of Indiana University was the passenger scheme, but thought the Black and Gold of Purdue was the freight scheme.
Both
Monon by Edmund, on Flickr
Cheers, Ed
Scalecoat can still be found, might be worth looking for it.
Jim
BEAUSABRE richhotrain I will be repainting the cars in red/gray and black/gold. A Monon fan! I agree that the Red and Gray of Indiana University was the passenger scheme, but thought the Black and Gold of Purdue was the freight scheme. BTW, you need some company service cars to haul beer, whiskey and shot glasses so the online saloons can make Boilermakers.
A Monon fan! I agree that the Red and Gray of Indiana University was the passenger scheme, but thought the Black and Gold of Purdue was the freight scheme. BTW, you need some company service cars to haul beer, whiskey and shot glasses so the online saloons can make Boilermakers.
Initially, the black and gold colors were used only on freight diesels, but later freight diesels were used to haul passenger cars.
Soo Line fan Rich, Scalecoat can still be found, might be worth looking for it.
In your search, Rich, shoot me an email if you run across any Scalecoat I Boxcar Red in spray cans.
gmpullman richhotrain Ed, when you say that Vallejo does not have very good adhesion and will not hold up well to even moderate handling of the rolling stock, what will happen? For years I used PollyScale for structure and some rolling stock painting. For me that stuff dried like true baked enamel, it was very durable. I still have some that has adhered to some of my painting equipment (mixing stirrers and such) that the only way to remove it is with a sharp scraper. As my supply of PollyScale began to dwindle I stocked up on my next best choice (after experimenting unsuccessfully with Badger ModelFlex) which was Vallejo. Vallejo is excellent for brush painting. It is good for airbrushing, too (I use both Model-Air and regular line thinned using their thinner). On structures I was used to the PollyScale going right over the bare plastic after a wash to remove the mold release. It made a very durable coating that would stand up to normal handling and, indeed, if you needed to remove any paint say for a gluing surface you would have to sand it or scrape it off. After some of my first attempts with Vallejo in the airbrush on bare plastic structures I found I could certainly achieve the look I wanted and a great choice of colors, or even mixed to my liking but the paint could easily be scraped off with my finger nail even after three days of curing. Using Tamiya primer over the bare plastic was a big improvement but the Vallejo could still be scraped off with just a little more effort. This is my experience anyway. Others might have some trick to make the finish bond better or perhaps using an overcoat of Dullcote or other clear finish might help.
richhotrain Ed, when you say that Vallejo does not have very good adhesion and will not hold up well to even moderate handling of the rolling stock, what will happen?
tstage In your search, Rich, shoot me an email if you run across any Scalecoat I Boxcar Red in spray cans. Tom
richhotrainSo, in your opinion, is Tamiya the way to go?
I have very little experience shooting Tamiya, Rich. I've used it maybe half-dozen times and had great results with it but for whatever reason I never kept a large stock of it. Now the rattle-can Tamiya primers are handy and top quality so when it comes to primer that is my first choice. I still have a pretty good 'stash' of Scalecoat and that is my #1 go-to for locomotives and rolling stock.
There are dozens of 'trial' videos on YouTube comparing modeler's chrome paints. The aircraft modelers especially need lots of shades and finishes of 'bare metal' look.
Like you, I have some passenger cars that were older Protos before Walthers offered the plated finish so my goal was to find something that replicated the stainless steel used by Budd, P-S and ACF for their fluted and sometimes, not so fluted, stainless sheathing. The example of the Nickel Plate coach is one such car. I simply masked the areas surrounding the fluted siding and shot it with either Alclad-2 or, more recently, the Molotow. Any other 'chrome' paint simply looked like the same stuff Walthers was using. It had no reflectivity like their later plated finish offered.
This Walthers Proto, Pennsy twin-unit diner was stripped and given the Alclad 2 process. I had great results:
Walthers PRR Dining car Alclad by Edmund, on Flickr
PRR_diner by Edmund, on Flickr
Antonio FP45 has been a longstanding proponent of the Alclad system. I like the results but it is a three step process and I've had mixed results when applying the necessary clear coat over the Alclad. Sometimes it would make the finish dull.
You definitely have to experiment and that may require an investment of several types of paint from different manufacturers. Modelers have their favorites and some seem to have better luck than another using identical paints.
gmpullman richhotrain So, in your opinion, is Tamiya the way to go? I have very little experience shooting Tamiya, Rich. I've used it maybe half-dozen times and had great results with it but for whatever reason I never kept a large stock of it. You definitely have to experiment and that may require an investment of several types of paint from different manufacturers. Modelers have their favorites and some seem to have better luck than another using identical paints. Good Luck, Ed
richhotrain So, in your opinion, is Tamiya the way to go?
I have very little experience shooting Tamiya, Rich. I've used it maybe half-dozen times and had great results with it but for whatever reason I never kept a large stock of it.
I dislike the word "experiment" in this context. I want to get it right on the first try.
My initial objection to Tamiya is that it requires thinning, lots of it, for airbrushing, whereas Vallejo Model Air comes ready for airbrushing, no thinner required. But, maybe that is why Vallejo is easily scratched. Dunno.
In any event, I am now leaning strongly to Tamiya. I guess what I could do is "experiment" with both brands on some scrap plastic sheet and then test how much abuse each brand can take.
richhotrainI dislike the word "experiment" in this context. I want to get it right on the first try.
I should have added "experiment on scrap or otherwise surplus models". I have a large box full of older Rivarossi passenger cars I use as test victims. Or, I suppose you could use plastic spoons?
As you might have seen in the video there's a huge disparity in what manufacturers call 'chrome'. I have maybe 8-10 various cans of aerosol chrome/aluminum paints. These are handy for the times you might need a small detail part or scenery item (chain link fence) and I know what to expect from each one. There's a particular Rustoleum color that is very close to polished stainless, right out of the can. I wouldn't hesitate to use it if I wanted a quick chrome finish on a passenger car.
Given that I already have the airbrush AND I really want to have better control I generally use the rattle can for 'second-tier' work.
This video will start at 21:45 which shows an interesting Revell product (that I'm not familiar with) and immediately following the Rustoleum product I reference to.
He's right that there are slight variations between batches of the Rustoleum. (He mistakenly says "Rustoleum" at 22:33 when he should have said Revell).
No, I didn't intend for you to experiment on your Mainline passenger cars but on something expendable.
My bad, Ed. When I first read your post, I presumed that you meant to paint some of the cars with one brand and then if problems arise change to another brand. But, as I was typing my reply, I realized that by "experiment", you meant on some scrap.
I actually have a 13th car that I could experiment on. I damaged it trying to remove the roof, so I bought a replacement car.
To complete this project, I need to use four colors - - red, gray, black and gold. Tamiya offers several shades of red and gray, so I need to find a close match to the prototype Monon colors.
Some of the Tamiya color selections also come in both glossy and flat. Is there any advantage or disadvantage to either glossy or flat when airbrushing?
richhotrainWhen you say that Vallejo does not have very good adhesion and will not hold up well to even moderate handling of the rolling stock, what will happen?
richhotrainIs priming only necessary if the original paint is stripped off?
PM RailfanNow, RustOleum owns Testors now, and I think for now they are still producing Testors. However, the spray patterns I get from the rattle cans are just awful. Spatter, splotches, spitting, and spitooey!
gmpullmanFor years I used PollyScale for structure and some rolling stock painting. For me that stuff dried like true baked enamel, it was very durable. I still have some that has adhered to some of my painting equipment (mixing stirrers and such) that the only way to remove it is with a sharp scraper.
gmpullmanAntonio FP45 has been a longstanding proponent of the Alclad system.
richhotrainIs there any advantage or disadvantage to either glossy or flat when airbrushing?
richhotrainSome of the Tamiya color selections also come in both glossy and flat. Is there any advantage or disadvantage to either glossy or flat when airbrushing?
Not really. If I'm using flat paint and I'm going to add decals over it, I spray gloss finish over the model. As noted, decals work better on a glossy surface. Once the decals are in place and sealed with a spray of flat finish, you normally can't tell whether the original paint was flat or glossy.
richhotrainTamiya color
Been satisfied with the results airbrushing Tamiya's XF colors thinning with their lacquer thinner 2-1 paint to thinner. I find the paint forgiving, in that keeping that goldilocks wet edge going is difficult for me, especially now that I'm still in the double-action brush learning curve. Largest project so far with Tamiya XF is the trawler, shot with a Badger single-action bottom feeder.
Nice Tamiya video: Scale Models Tips - How To Use Tamiya Acrylic Paints - Brush & Airbrush Technique - Easy !! - YouTube
Good luck and regards, Peter
HO-Velo I'm still in the double-action brush learning curve.
I rarely use one of my double-action airbrushes for model trains.
My good old reloable Paasche Model H single action external mix bottom feeder does 90% of the work.
I have found the double action airbrushes are excellent when painting camfoflage patterns on 1/100 scale armored fighting vehicles, but not really much of an improvement for most tasks.
Plus... the Paasche is so easy to clean compared to a Badger model 150 dual action.
Very nice model, but any working fishing vessel would have some rust patches - they take a battering!
Thank you, were the black and gold units equipped with steam generators?
Thank you