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HO Rivarossi Chippewa 4-6-2 Wobble

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  • Member since
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  • From: Western Michigan
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Posted by LooperHo on Friday, June 16, 2023 7:28 PM

Thanks Paul. I'm thinking you're right about it being a newer production. That makes it a little harder.

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Posted by Road Foreman of Engines on Friday, June 16, 2023 6:46 PM

AHM was selling Rivarossi built engines for years, I've seen ads in MR from1969, and probably before....they were extremely common. All mine are the older versions. 
 They stopped , and then I saw them offered again in MR, I believe as Rivarossi. I'm thinking around the '90's, or early 2000's. I don't know when they switched to can motors, but my guess would be most you see offered today are the older ones, since AHM had flooded the market with them back in the day...

 It may be difficult to find another of the newer production. But not impossible....

Paul

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Posted by NVSRR on Friday, June 16, 2023 10:45 AM

It isn't an ihc or ahm.   Rivarossi did make locos for them.   Those pieces with ihc ahm stamped just might work though

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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  • From: Western Michigan
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Posted by LooperHo on Friday, June 16, 2023 10:19 AM

I've been searching for some time now for a drive set that has a 30ft dia. (9.72mm) drive gear. Does anyone know when Rivarossi started using can motors? All I seem to find are the motors located in the cab area. The motor is then connected to a drive shaft leading to a 42ft dia (11.9mm) drive gear. Mine has a worm gear mounted directly to the motor shaft. Is this possibly an IHC or AHM?

 

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Posted by leewal on Friday, May 5, 2023 11:07 AM

A last option is to live with the wobble. I've found, over the years, that trying to fix an old Rivarossi is the effort to fix it makes it worse. Parts have pretty well setteled in after all the years of running. I'm just happy my old Rivarossis are still running at all. I have seen videos of real steamers wobbling like crazy as they move down the track. Maybe it's protypical. 

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  • From: Western Michigan
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Posted by LooperHo on Thursday, May 4, 2023 2:20 PM

Road Foreman of Engines

I have had a lot of Rivarossi engines from the 70's and 80's. I had the Chippewa pacific in both H0 and N. The H0 engine had a quartering issue that even caused the drive wheel to break. I tried to use Bowswer  drive wheels, but the Rivarossi axles are much fatter, so, beware of using something non Rivarossi ; it may not fit properly.

I would suggest trying to find another similar engine to take parts from.

Shouldn't be too difficult if you can find a good donor engine.

Paul

another idea would be to find another Pacific from any maker, and try to fit your boiler shell on it. This would probably require some filing and fitting.

 

That's my plan. I just have to be patient until something comes along. If I can, I'm going to grab some wheel sets when I see them. You'll be hearing from me. Soon I hope. I know, I know!! Be patient!! Ha!!

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Posted by Road Foreman of Engines on Thursday, May 4, 2023 10:22 AM

I have had a lot of Rivarossi engines from the 70's and 80's. I had the Chippewa pacific in both H0 and N. The H0 engine had a quartering issue that even caused the drive wheel to break. I tried to use Bowswer  drive wheels, but the Rivarossi axles are much fatter, so, beware of using something non Rivarossi ; it may not fit properly.

I would suggest trying to find another similar engine to take parts from.

Shouldn't be too difficult if you can find a good donor engine.

Paul

another idea would be to find another Pacific from any maker, and try to fit your boiler shell on it. This would probably require some filing and fitting.

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  • From: Western Michigan
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Posted by LooperHo on Thursday, May 4, 2023 7:00 AM

Road Foreman of Engines

Sorry to hear. These Rivarossi Pacifica were quite common at one time. Hold onto it, you may be able to find another one at a train show or EBay. Even if it is another road name, you can still swap out the boiler and tender. There are still options to return to service!

Paul

 

Thanks Paul. I worked on the gear housing last night and was able to repair the area that broke loose. If I can find a fresh set of wheels with a 9.7dia drive gear I might try to get the loco running again. Though, if it whobbles I'm going to live with it tell myself it was meant to do that. Ha!! Ha!!

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Posted by Road Foreman of Engines on Wednesday, May 3, 2023 5:38 PM

Sorry to hear. These Rivarossi Pacifica were quite common at one time. Hold onto it, you may be able to find another one at a train show or EBay. Even if it is another road name, you can still swap out the boiler and tender. There are still options to return to service!

Paul

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  • From: Western Michigan
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Posted by LooperHo on Wednesday, May 3, 2023 3:33 PM

Well, things started to get worse as I fiddled with the wheels and the drive gears. The gear housing is so old and brittle that it began to come apart. Thought I could repair it but then the alignment of the wheels were so off that it kept breaking as the wheels would bind. I did a bad thing and tried to twist the drive wheels on thier axle. One wheel is now loose on the axle. Sadly, I've given up and will try to sell this unit for parts. Possibly in the future I'll find another MILW Chippewa locomotive and purchase it. I loved this old locomotive and have the passenger cars that go with it. Thanks for everyones input. It really helped. I'm just not as savy as some of you are when it comes to fixing these old Rivarossi locomotives.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, April 28, 2023 7:31 PM

LooperHo
I'm thinking of removing one drive bar from the drive axle and see if I can locate the alignment problem as it slowly turns.

Although it's more work, what I'd do is take off the eccentrics and main rods and pull the side rods to one of the driver pairs, say the rear one.  Then reassemble the rods and perhaps the valve gear, and see if it hops in that configuration.  (If you think the issue might be a misaligned driver, just remove that driver pair while the rods are off, and run the engine as a "4-4-2")

If that fails to fix it, do the same thing with the other outer driver pair, and see if that is the problem.

Whether you use a jig or not, align the quartering of the two outer driver pairs so they match the main driver's quarter -- whatever that is -- as closely as you can get it.

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Posted by LooperHo on Friday, April 28, 2023 11:43 AM

I looked at the counter weights and you are correct.  They do look out of sync. I was able to twist the wheels of the axle and it did improve the running but it's still off a bit. I'll keep working on it. The drive bars are not rigid by-the-way. They are two separate pieces. I'm thinking of removing one drive bar from the drive axle and see if I can locate the alignment problem as it slowly turns. 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, April 28, 2023 11:16 AM

leewal
In the top picture, the counter weights on all 3 drivers look fine.

While those counter-weights might look fine, they're all out-of-sync, as are the ones in the other photo.

If the driver centres are plastic, it may be risky trying to re-align the counter weights.
I've re-quartered some brass drivers, but some of the older ones are a sloppy fit on the axles, and are almost impossible to secure. 

I did re-do a 2-6-0 for a longtime friend, by replacing the wheels and axles with new ones from Greenway, then re-motored the loco, and gave it a fresh paint and lettering job, too...

Wayne

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Posted by leewal on Friday, April 28, 2023 10:09 AM

In the top picture, the counter weights on all 3 drivers look fine. In the bottom picture the counter weight on the rear driver is slightly off.  That indicates to me that the "off driver" has slipped, or turned slightly, on its axle. If you try to line up the "off driver" with the other two drivers the driver on the other side, on the same axle, will then be the "off driver". Only that one driver needs adjusment. I would re-align the driver on the exle which requires removing it and maybe even glueing it place. I have a Rivarossi Casey Jones that did this and Gorilla Glue did a great job. It expands inside the hole and locks the wheel in place on the axle.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, April 27, 2023 4:43 PM

To me, either the leading or trailing driver is visibly out of quarter.  If the 'side rods' are one rigid piece spanning three pins, it would be surprising if it didn't hop.

Any simple 'quartering' jig that gets near 90% would be sufficient to fix this.  Electric trains need precision, rather than accuracy here: they don't care if the quarter is exactly 90 degrees, but they need all the driver pairs at the same relative angle.

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Posted by dknelson on Thursday, April 27, 2023 11:16 AM

A small amount of play was built into the AHM/Rivarossi steamer drivetrains to account for the slightly greater thickness of the driver with the traction tire. Are you sure the drivers are "setting" evenly in the frame?

I would not assume the quartering is off and as noted above given the plastic centers to the drivers, the usual way of correcting badly quartered drivers would be a trick.  NWSL made a quartering tool but it assumed the centers of the drivers were also metal.  I think the plastic would break

Have you removed the motor and gear and tried pushing the l,ocomotive as if it were a "dummy" looking carefully at each driver and at the valve gear and side rods  You might discover some slight hitch in the side rods or valve gear, perhaps tightened too much or again it may not be "setting" right in the bearings.  Each time a steamer is disassembled even an AHM steamer it introduces the chance of some little irregularity in the reassembly.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by Road Foreman of Engines on Thursday, April 27, 2023 9:45 AM

Hello,

 check the traction tire for damage. If that's o.k., probably a quartering issue. The driver centers are soft plastic, I think it would be difficult to pull off a drive wheel and re quarter without breaking the wheel.

I would suggest to find another Rivarossi pacific to take drive wheel from, to try to come up with one set of good drive wheels that are quartered properly. Rivarossi axles are an unusual diameter, and it would be difficult to find a drop in replacement that is not Rivarossi.

Good luck! I just fixed my Rivarossi Challenger yesterday!

Paul

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  • From: Western Michigan
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Posted by LooperHo on Tuesday, April 25, 2023 1:13 PM

hornblower

I have an old Rivarossi Chippewa Pacific loco that I had to put in storage for several years along with a Rivarossi New York Central Hudson.  Both of these locos ran like Swiss clocks before I put them in storage.  When I finally had a place for a layout again, I pulled out these two locos to try them on the new layout.  After running only a few feet, the centers of the drivers on the Chippewa Pacific crumbled as they had become brittle while in storage.  The NYC Hudson's drivers did not fall apart, probably due to the more solid driver design, but it now had a rather obvious wobble as it ran down the tracks.  Maybe your Chippewa has a similar problem.  

I considered purchasing new drivers from Greenway Products but, as neither loco fits the theme of my current layout, they remain in storage.

 

I haven't had any pieces falling apart thank goodness. When I run the engine upside down in my foam service sleeve one of the axles hops. If I place my fingers on it lightly one of the other axles will hop.

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Posted by hornblower on Tuesday, April 25, 2023 12:42 PM

I have an old Rivarossi Chippewa Pacific loco that I had to put in storage for several years along with a Rivarossi New York Central Hudson.  Both of these locos ran like Swiss clocks before I put them in storage.  When I finally had a place for a layout again, I pulled out these two locos to try them on the new layout.  After running only a few feet, the centers of the drivers on the Chippewa Pacific crumbled as they had become brittle while in storage.  The NYC Hudson's drivers did not fall apart, probably due to the more solid driver design, but it now had a rather obvious wobble as it ran down the tracks.  Maybe your Chippewa has a similar problem.  

I considered purchasing new drivers from Greenway Products but, as neither loco fits the theme of my current layout, they remain in storage.

Hornblower

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  • From: Western Michigan
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Posted by LooperHo on Tuesday, April 25, 2023 12:03 PM

BigDaddy

You can link to a video, on youtube, for instance, you can't attach one to your post.

 

I tried to insert a link. Maybe this will work.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, April 25, 2023 11:22 AM

You can link to a video, on youtube, for instance, you can't attach one to your post.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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HO Rivarossi Chippewa 4-6-2 Wobble
Posted by LooperHo on Tuesday, April 25, 2023 10:37 AM

I have an HO Rivarossi Chippewa that I just put a new motor in and it runs great. Now it seems to have a wobble as it travels around the layout. I've read about quartering but how is it possible to adjust one of the wheels. The wheels are fixed to the axle. I've attached a video but I don't know if it will play.

Click On The Box above this line.

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