Can anyone tell me if Athearn GP7s and 9s ran on the same chassis?
Unless I am mistaken, yes they run on the same chassis.
Don; Prez, CEO or whatever of the Wishram, Oregon and Western RR
Yes, ironically, just like the prototypes.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Being quite uneducated about the GP7 and 9 versions, how does the same chassis matter?
leewal Can anyone tell me if Athearn GP7s and 9s ran on the same chassis?
Are you asking about the current GENESIS model or the old Blue Box or Ready to Roll model?
Considering the degree of similarity of the prototypes, I would think the GENESIS models would be on the same chassis. But I don't own any to check. All my GP units are Proto2000.
The old Blue Box model was not overly correct for either version if I recall, labeled as a GP9 but closer to being a late production GP7 if my memory is correct. Since only one shell was ever offered for the Blue Box model, yes they all had the same chassis - that is at any specific time, because the drive did go thru a number of up grades over the many years it was produced.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALThe old Blue Box model was not overly correct for either version if I recall, labeled as a GP9 but closer to being a late production GP7 if my memory is correct.
I seem to recall that Blue Box models were packaged such that the "GP-9" models had dynamic brakes, and the "GP-7" models did not. However, the body was the same except for the brake blister (or not), and was not completely correct for either locomotive.
Yes, the Blue Box GP-7 and GP-9 used the same chassis.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL The old Blue Box model was not overly correct for either version if I recall, labeled as a GP9 but closer to being a late production GP7 if my memory is correct. I seem to recall that Blue Box models were packaged such that the "GP-9" models had dynamic brakes, and the "GP-7" models did not. However, the body was the same except for the brake blister (or not), and was not completely correct for either locomotive. Yes, the Blue Box GP-7 and GP-9 used the same chassis. -Kevin
ATLANTIC CENTRAL The old Blue Box model was not overly correct for either version if I recall, labeled as a GP9 but closer to being a late production GP7 if my memory is correct.
Dynamic brakes or not, GP7's and GP9's are not exactly the same externally, and there are "phases" within each model.
I don't have them all memorized, but small changes in grills, equipment boxes, doors, etc, etc, separate early and late versions of both locomotives and separate them from each other.
Yes, at casual glance, they are the same. To the rivet counting crowd, not so much.
One example is most GP7's have a series of three louvers under the cab. GP9's typically have one in this location. There are also variations in the side louvers of the engine compartment doors.
More GP9's were built with dynamic brakes, but both were built in versions with and without dynamic brakes.
And then you had the variations based on different roads.
Locos built for passenger service, but without dynamic brakes typically had their air tanks on the roof to make more room for water tanks underneath.
Some were built with the long hood marked "front" and the control stand on the opposite side. Some were built with dual control stands.
I'm not one to obsess much over this stuff, but some do.
Some examples:
GP9 - no dynamic brakes - air tanks on roof for largest possible fuel tanks.
GP7 passenger equiped, no DB, air tanks on roof
GP7 - no DB, regular fuel tanks, air tanks below.
GP9 - dynamic brakes, regular fuel tanks
GP7 - with dynamic brakes
And that is just a quick scan of B&O and C&O units......
So now that my memory is woken up on this subject, a quick look at the old Blue Box loco, always labeled as a GP9, actually has the features of a late production GP7 with dynamic brakes and a passenger steam generator.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL So now that my memory is woken up on this subject, a quick look at the old Blue Box loco, always labeled as a GP9, actually has the features of a late production GP7 with dynamic brakes and a passenger steam generator. Sheldon
I can add that the Athearn Blue Box locos' hoods were too wide.
IIRC, it was because of the side to side size of the motor.
Because I have a chance to buy a shell advertised as GP9 and wondered if it would fit on my GP7 chassis. That's why it matters!
Thanks, but that doesn't answer the question!
I thought I asked a "YES" or "NO" question, not a test of everyone knowledge.
leewal I thought I asked a "YES" or "NO" question, not a test of everyone knowledge.
leewalI thought I asked a "YES" or "NO" question, not a test of everyone knowledge.
Well, excuse all the knowledgable people that replied to your thread!
Good greif!
Mike.
My You Tube
leewal Because I have a chance to buy a shell advertised as GP9 and wondered if it would fit on my GP7 chassis. That's why it matters!
And we still need to know if it is a GENESIS model or a Blue Box model because those shells will not interchange with each other.
You cannot put a Blue Box shell on a GENESIS chassis, or a GENESIS shell on a Blue Box chassis.
A point I think I covered in my first post.
SeeYou190I seem to recall that Blue Box models were packaged such that the "GP-9" models had dynamic brakes, and the "GP-7" models did not.
I believe you're thinking of the old Lionel O engines. Same bodies but "GP-9s" had dynamic brakes, "GP-7s" didn't.
wjstixI believe you're thinking of the old Lionel O engines. Same bodies but "GP-9s" had dynamic brakes, "GP-7s" didn't.
Thanks... that must be what I was recalling.
Well, Sheldon and Stix already showed I don't know what I'm talking about, so I guess I failed the test.
Welcome to an Internet Forum. The only surprising thing is the thread hasn't veered off to F-3's vs F-7's.....yet
GP 7 & 9's are popular so this thread is going to go on for days if not months.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
SeeYou190 leewal I thought I asked a "YES" or "NO" question, not a test of everyone knowledge. Well, Sheldon and Stix already showed I don't know what I'm talking about, so I guess I failed the test. -Kevin
Not to worry, if someone was asking about some modern locomotive in common use today, I would be clueless.
As has been mentioned, if you could supply more information about what you have it would be helpful.
Athearn may have used the term GP7 in its marketing, or that may just be what some modelers called Athearn's GP9 because they thought it looked more like a GP7.
I don't know if there were really two different models or if the naming used by modelers over the years added to the confusion. My guess is that the shell you want to buy will fit over the chassis you have because I don't think Athearn really made a GP7 AND a GP9...they are just called two different locos depending upon who you ask.
Then there is the newer Athearn Genesis line that offers separate and distinct GP7's AND GP9's. And, yes, the chassis of the Genesis GP7 and GP9's are the same...but...the Genesis GP7/9 chassis will not support an older Athearn Blue Box/Yellow Box shell.
- Douglas
DoughlessAthearn may have used the term GP7 in its marketing, or that may just be what some modelers called Athearn's GP9 because they thought it looked more like a GP7. I don't know if there were really two different models or if the naming used by modelers over the years added to the confusion. My guess is that the shell you want to buy will fit over the chassis you have because I don't think Athearn really made a GP7 AND a GP9...they are just called two different locos depending upon who you ask.
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
crossthedog Doughless Athearn may have used the term GP7 in its marketing, or that may just be what some modelers called Athearn's GP9 because they thought it looked more like a GP7. I don't know if there were really two different models or if the naming used by modelers over the years added to the confusion. My guess is that the shell you want to buy will fit over the chassis you have because I don't think Athearn really made a GP7 AND a GP9...they are just called two different locos depending upon who you ask. Wait, what?... You're suggesting Athearn may not have put something on the end of the box, like "GP7" or "GP9"? That seems like something someone could quickly verify, with all the "yes-I-keep-the-original-box"ers around here. Personally, I find it hard to believe, although I'm on Kevin's side of the gym in this Dodgeball game. I've only recently started becoming interested in these locos, still have much to learn. -Matt
Doughless Athearn may have used the term GP7 in its marketing, or that may just be what some modelers called Athearn's GP9 because they thought it looked more like a GP7. I don't know if there were really two different models or if the naming used by modelers over the years added to the confusion. My guess is that the shell you want to buy will fit over the chassis you have because I don't think Athearn really made a GP7 AND a GP9...they are just called two different locos depending upon who you ask.
Wait, what?... You're suggesting Athearn may not have put something on the end of the box, like "GP7" or "GP9"? That seems like something someone could quickly verify, with all the "yes-I-keep-the-original-box"ers around here. Personally, I find it hard to believe, although I'm on Kevin's side of the gym in this Dodgeball game. I've only recently started becoming interested in these locos, still have much to learn.
Again to clarify, remember I was worked in the business going back to the 70's, ATHEARN ALWAYS labeled the Blue Box Geep as a GP9. There has only ever been that one body, that one tooling of the Blue Box loco.
EVERY Athearn list, catalog, marking on the end of a box, Walthers catalog listing, etc, calls it a GP9.
BUT, if you examine the model, the only model, that was never changed, it has features that clearly identify it as a passenger boiler and dynamic brake equiped GP7.
It was labeled wrong from day one.....
Since the prototype locos are so close in appearance, and few modelers back in the day had access or knowledge of these minor differences, it just stayed that way - miss labeled.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL crossthedog Doughless Athearn may have used the term GP7 in its marketing, or that may just be what some modelers called Athearn's GP9 because they thought it looked more like a GP7. I don't know if there were really two different models or if the naming used by modelers over the years added to the confusion. My guess is that the shell you want to buy will fit over the chassis you have because I don't think Athearn really made a GP7 AND a GP9...they are just called two different locos depending upon who you ask. Wait, what?... You're suggesting Athearn may not have put something on the end of the box, like "GP7" or "GP9"? That seems like something someone could quickly verify, with all the "yes-I-keep-the-original-box"ers around here. Personally, I find it hard to believe, although I'm on Kevin's side of the gym in this Dodgeball game. I've only recently started becoming interested in these locos, still have much to learn. -Matt Again to clarify, remember I was worked in the business going back to the 70's, ATHEARN ALWAYS labeled the Blue Box Geep as a GP9. There has only ever been that one body, that one tooling of the Blue Box loco. EVERY Athearn list, catalog, marking on the end of a box, Walthers catalog listing, etc, calls it a GP9. BUT, if you examine the model, the only model, that was never changed, it has features that clearly identify it as a passenger boiler and dynamic brake equiped GP7. It was labeled wrong from day one..... Since the prototype locos are so close in appearance, and few modelers back in the day had access or knowledge of these minor differences, it just stayed that way - miss labeled. Sheldon
The box end of the Athearn Blue Box GP9.
The directions.
Close up of underframe in directions.
PC101 ATLANTIC CENTRAL crossthedog Doughless Athearn may have used the term GP7 in its marketing, or that may just be what some modelers called Athearn's GP9 because they thought it looked more like a GP7. I don't know if there were really two different models or if the naming used by modelers over the years added to the confusion. My guess is that the shell you want to buy will fit over the chassis you have because I don't think Athearn really made a GP7 AND a GP9...they are just called two different locos depending upon who you ask. Wait, what?... You're suggesting Athearn may not have put something on the end of the box, like "GP7" or "GP9"? That seems like something someone could quickly verify, with all the "yes-I-keep-the-original-box"ers around here. Personally, I find it hard to believe, although I'm on Kevin's side of the gym in this Dodgeball game. I've only recently started becoming interested in these locos, still have much to learn. -Matt Again to clarify, remember I was worked in the business going back to the 70's, ATHEARN ALWAYS labeled the Blue Box Geep as a GP9. There has only ever been that one body, that one tooling of the Blue Box loco. EVERY Athearn list, catalog, marking on the end of a box, Walthers catalog listing, etc, calls it a GP9. BUT, if you examine the model, the only model, that was never changed, it has features that clearly identify it as a passenger boiler and dynamic brake equiped GP7. It was labeled wrong from day one..... Since the prototype locos are so close in appearance, and few modelers back in the day had access or knowledge of these minor differences, it just stayed that way - miss labeled. Sheldon The box end of the Athearn Blue Box GP9. The directions. Close up of underframe in directions.
And on the instructions you can clearly see on the drawing the three louvers under the cab that identify it asa GP7......
ATLANTIC CENTRALSince the prototype locos are so close in appearance, and few modelers back in the day had access or knowledge of these minor differences, it just stayed that way - miss labeled.
Yeah, when I decided to make a couple of TH&B geeps for short article in Model Railroader, I used the Athearn body shells, minus the dynamic brake louvres. I simply removed them, then plugged the mounting holes.
The real TH&B later acquired a trio of GP-9s, but all of the original model ones that I built (25 of them) were modified to represent GP-7s.
Demand for the TH&B GP-9s then spurred another rush, and I ended-up doing 26 of them.
When Atlas and a little later, another maker (whose name escapes me) offered TH&B diesels, I was relieved to not have to build any more of them...each of mine, all hand-painted, earned me only $10.00 apiece.
I was relieved to not have to make any more.
Wayne
There is only one model. Listed/labeled incorrectly is the Athearn GP-7A w/DB. So to answer the OP question, yes it will fit as it is the shell intended for that frame.
I would like to elaborate on Sheldon's comment "Labeled wrong from day one". Now, this is a true statement. What I would like to know is why and/or how this happened?
I am pretty sure Athearn had atleast one model railroader working for them. If not in the R&D, or manufacturing process departments.... you'd think in advertising or quality control.
So it kinda lends creedence that this 'mistake' was intentional.
At any rate, this could have been fixed with the snap of a finger in a time when folks had the work ethic to do so. Athearn didnt. Has to be a reason why!
Not that it will ever change the sales of the model, or its usage, but it is one of those things in our hobby it sure would be nice to know the answer too after so many decades.
PMR
doctorwayneYeah, when I decided to make a couple of TH&B geeps for short article in Model Railroader, I used the Athearn body shells, minus the dynamic brake louvres.
Wayne, could you please tell us what year and month this was in? I'd like to check it out, and get some use of my archives subscription.
Thanks!
At the time the first Athearn "GP9" came out, very few modellers or railfans would be able to spot the difference between an early GP9 and a later GP7. Breaking down EMD production runs into "phases" of carbodies etc. came later.
IIRC real GP9s outsold GP7s by quite a bit? Could be - even once they caught the error - that Athearn figured calling it a GP9 would make it more desireable to modellers since they could offer it in more roadnames?
BTW much more troublesome in my mind was Athearn's first "SW-1500" which was really something like an SW-7 or SW-9. At least the GP7 and GP9 look very similar.
PMFan, wjstix,
Now, some 60-70 years after the fact, I don't thin we will ever know why or how these models were mislabeled.
Or, for that matter why Athearn chose the specific versions of these models.
A GP7 with dynamic brakes and passenger steam boiler - had to be a pretty rare combination on the prototype.
Their F7 - again passenger boiler equiped. Sure they existed, but I have done that research - only a few roads.
Maybe on purpose, maybe not. Even for a company like Athearn, all this prototype data was not as readily available as it is today.
Other questions - why make RDC-2's in the metal version and then not make them in plastic?
Why put tandem axles on 25' piggyback vans?
And the OP still has not told us Blue Box or GENESIS........