Thread locked at the OP's request.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
I remember a conversation between two eight-year-olds once, one said to the other, "do you remember back in the olden days when we ....." Referring to something they had done together.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
All I can say is that I enjoy working to make Athearn blue box equipment look and run better. I can take an engine apart to where it looks like the exploded parts diagram that was in the box. I can make a power truck, with gears engaged, roll like a Hot Wheels car. That may be tedious for some folk, but it is fun, fun, fun for me.
Lots of things I want to learn. I hand laid some track 40 years ago; I want to do that again. I have several DCC projects, including LED lighting and sound. I have several painting projects; specifically a MKT red GP7 and a SF CE1 caboose. I have a MDC hopper project (replacing roofwalks on 12 cars) that is going on 30 years; it might get done in the next 5 years.
When I got back into the hobby after a 40 year absence, I was no longer a teenager with summers off and time on my hands. Instead, I was a middle-aged man with a full-time job and a family, raising a beautiful young girl. As such, I had to choose my battles carefully. That wasn't hard, but even as it was I had too many projects and not enough time. I gradually found my path, and have always been happy with my choices.
I buy rolling stock kits, mostly, and I build and weather them, but I don't kitbash them to be something else. It's the same with motive power. I don't handlay track.
I found out early on that I enjoyed making Hydrocal castings, and I build a lot of plastic structure kits, adding interiors and specifically seeking out kits with large windows so my interiors would actually be visible.
But, even with all the shortcuts and use of RTR, somehow I've never finished the layout. Somewhere along the way, I realized I was a Builder, not an Operator, and that's the way I like it.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
"Old way" and "new way" doesn't really work as categorizations. Many materials are not the same now as they were even back in the 1980's. For example, CA did not even exist back then, and I'll bet a lot of "old way" modeling is done using CA as one of the adhesives.
We may tend towards a modeling approach of earlier decades, bu I doubth there is much opportunity to do purely "old way" modeling anymore.
As Yoda might say, "Only 'your way' modeling there is."
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
I recently purchased 3 GP35 and 1 GP7 bodyshells. Unfortunately I have to wait for Atlas to resell their locomotive chassis.
My GP7 has a cracked roof and broken handrail. I will try to repair it and paint it black for early Conrail. 2 GP35 are going to get painted in G.N.O. Railway scheme. The another GP35 I don't know anymore NYC, early CR, random company.
I would love to decal and scratch build to make the railroad feel unique. When I place a NYC or Chessie on CR or BN theme layout.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
AEP528Do you buy pre-made track components? Why don't you handlay track? Do you buy pre-made power packs or throttles? Why don't you build your own? Do you use power tools? Why not only hand tools? You're not doing it the OLD WAY. I don't scratchbuild, kitbash, or superdetail locomotives or rolling stock. I don't paint or decal locomotives or rolling stock. Why? Because I hate it. Those things are, for me, absolutely the most boring, tedious, and least worthwhile aspect of model railroading. You know what I am doing? Scratchbuilding a model railroad. Locomotives and rolling stock are components of that model railroad, as are Atlas turnouts or MRC power packs. Ready-to-run models mean I can spend nearly all of my time and effort on the aspects of model railroading that I truly enjoy.
I think this part of your post made some very good points.
A lot of "old way" modelers focus on the models themselves. Mainly rolling stock and locomotives. That's the persepctive here, how do those models come to be.
Does an auto restorer fabricate a replacement fender on his own, or does he order a RTR fender from Rock Auto, and then use that component to build a complete car?
The perspective you have might depend on what you are building. If you are building a layout, then RTR track, cars, locos, buildings etc are simply parts to the completed layout that you assemble. Others go so far as to RTR the entire layout by hiring it all out to professional model railroad builders.
I think the debate is focused on the actual models themsleves, and not the entire layout. Myself, I don't think the individual models themselves are all that important relative to the total picture, but that's one perspective
- Douglas
Making/buildings things is an important part of my hobby. Is that "old way"? I don't think the label is appropriate. When I install DCC in locos, it can be pretty work intensive, and I don't think that should be labelled as "old way".
At our local club, I try to encourage folks to "collect" less and "do" more. A lot of the "collect" folks hesitate to cross the line because they are affraid to. My response to that is that all you really need is patience (and a bit of money). A lot of what I do is purely technical, that is, techniques that do not require a lot of artistic talent. Learning how to do it, and practicing on old items is key. For example, a simple black wash and painting the trucks on rolling stock is a really easy way of removing the toyish look of BB-grade items. There is a technique to it, but it's definitely not art or rocket-science.
I do admit that some RTR items that I bought have been left untouched. For passenger trains, it's perfectly OK. So when I buy steamers new, I go for passenger engines that look as if they have just come out of the paint shop.
Simon
SeeYou190 Doughless I think threads like this can get into an Us vs Them. That was certainly not my intention. - - - - - - - - - - Can a moderator lock this thread? It seems my intentions were immediately misunderstood. -Kevin
Doughless I think threads like this can get into an Us vs Them.
That was certainly not my intention.
It seems my intentions were immediately misunderstood.
-Kevin
I'm sure that it wasn't. I think when someone implies that they enjoy doing things one way, it sparks a reaction that other ways must be inferior. Its not the intent, but its reality that it can be easily read that way. It can sound exclusive to some or many.
I don't think it was your intention, because I don't think what you do is exclusive of other ways. You buy highly detailed expensive RTR stuff too. Brass. While they may be undecorated, that's probably a function of the fact tha you freelance and you have to paint things yourself in order to have any STRATTON & GILLETTE car or locomotive, or your railroads of nonsense, as you call it. If you were modeling the Nickel Plate, you'd probably own many expensive highly detailed brass Berkshires built and painted by somebody else. If not a locomotive, a bunch of brass NKP cabooses. I think you would.
But also, if you didn't model the S&G, you might not be in the hobby at all.
I see your way as a means to an end, like us all. And you probably really enjoy painting and decaling, or else you wouldn't have a fleet of nonsense that requires getting undecorated models to start with.
SeeYou190 AEP528 Do you buy pre-made track components? Why don't you handlay track? Do you buy pre-made power packs or throttles? Why don't you build your own? Do you use power tools? Why not only hand tools? You're not doing it the OLD WAY. As I said in my original post, I am doing it as was described in Model Railroader magazines in the late 1970s through early 1990s. To me, that is the "old way". Sorry, I am not old enough to remember when handlaying track and building power supplies was the normal way. riogrande5761 @AEP528, well said. I guess my opening post was not clear. I was saying how I get enjoyment from this hobby, and I was wondering if anyone else wanted to share anything on this subject. Even after re-reading my original post, I do not understand this pair of comments at all. -Kevin
AEP528 Do you buy pre-made track components? Why don't you handlay track? Do you buy pre-made power packs or throttles? Why don't you build your own? Do you use power tools? Why not only hand tools? You're not doing it the OLD WAY.
As I said in my original post, I am doing it as was described in Model Railroader magazines in the late 1970s through early 1990s. To me, that is the "old way". Sorry, I am not old enough to remember when handlaying track and building power supplies was the normal way.
riogrande5761 @AEP528, well said.
I guess my opening post was not clear. I was saying how I get enjoyment from this hobby, and I was wondering if anyone else wanted to share anything on this subject.
Even after re-reading my original post, I do not understand this pair of comments at all.
Mike
BATMANAnd yet, I wonder how they all look at the end of their careers.
The 1:1 guys weather their locomotives and rolling stock just like some of us do. It just takes them a lot longer. The results are pretty authentic though!
I just wish that our models could belch black smoke as well as the real guys do!
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
doctorwayneYou can consider yourself to be building a model railroad, but you've already decried scratchbuilding, which indicates to me that you do not understand the terminology. R-T-R locos and rolling stock are perfectly fine, but they have no connection at all with scratchbuilding.
I have to agree. I feel I am modeling a railroad, only ye railroad I am modeling just isn't found in RTR kits. I've always looked at mmodeling as being a craft and an art, akin to silversmithing (something else I have enjoyed). There should be a place for those of us who enjoy that part of the hobby, even if it is "the old way." Should we fracture the hobby between RTR DCC operators vs. scratch building fine scalists vs. live steamers vs. Garden railroaders? I hope not. I confess that I do look back in those old magazines for inspiration. I fear where the hobby is gone in recent years leaves me a little cold, but I just accept the fact that I find the romance of the rails in a different (well established) aspect of the hobby. I sometimes wonder if we aren't a generation away from modelrailroading becoming a virtual hobby on computer screens, and those fussing with us oldtimers may find the shoe on the other foot. New times bring new things. That does not mean we should belittle those who wish to retain some heritage enjoyment of the hobby.
PruittDid the UP even have that many?
Very interesting thread. I must say that I get immense satisfaction from detailing and painting my old Athearn Blue Box stuff. With the advent of DCC, I have derived much satisfaction from installing new, low amp motors in those good ol' Uncle Irv lokeys. If someone wants to purchase on of those new, well detailed lokeys, that is OK by me. This hobby has plenty of room for all of us and is multi-faceted. We just need to find what gives us the joy of model railroading.
Don; Prez, CEO or whatever of the Wishram, Oregon and Western RR
DoughlessI think threads like this can get into an Us vs Them.
Living the dream.
AEP528Do you buy pre-made track components? Why don't you handlay track? Do you buy pre-made power packs or throttles? Why don't you build your own? Do you use power tools? Why not only hand tools? You're not doing it the OLD WAY.
riogrande5761@AEP528, well said.
OldEngineman ] Seems like most of the big railroads these days buy their engines and cars "ready-to-run"...
]
Seems like most of the big railroads these days buy their engines and cars "ready-to-run"...
And yet, I wonder how they all look at the end of their careers.
Pruitt thomas81z I have 30 big boys... 30?!? Wow! All different road numbers? That's a pretty significant investment. Did the UP even have that many?
thomas81z I have 30 big boys...
30?!? Wow! All different road numbers? That's a pretty significant investment.
Did the UP even have that many?
No, they only had 25.
Sheldon
thomas81zI have 30 big boys...
thomas81z Im like most , fall inbetween i use flex track code 100 with peco turnouts I have 30 big boys & no bowser big boy kits among them I use foam board with ribbing support & do build accurail kits & bb kits & i started DC but migrated to NCE so im drifting towards the higher end locomotives . Researching to build a layout is sooo much fun & now with the internet we are no longer 'LONE WOLF" MODELERS #HAVEFUN
Im like most , fall inbetween i use flex track code 100 with peco turnouts
I have 30 big boys & no bowser big boy kits among them
I use foam board with ribbing support & do build accurail kits & bb kits & i started DC but migrated to NCE so im drifting towards the higher end
locomotives .
Researching to build a layout is sooo much fun & now with the internet we are no longer 'LONE WOLF" MODELERS
#HAVEFUN
And by contrast, I have never owned a model of a Big Boy......
We all find what makes us happy.
AEP528Please stop with this subject. It has, and always will have, a judgemental feel that simply cannot be avoided. Do what you like, respect what others like. Clearly this forum is not representative of the hobby as a whole, and the member here need to understand that
I didn't sense anything judgemental or disrespectful in the OP's post at all. Kevin just said how he likes to do things.
BATMAN Doughless I don't really have pride in my hobby efforts. I get satisfaction.
Doughless I don't really have pride in my hobby efforts. I get satisfaction.
You must not be a Rolling Stone. They can't get no satisfaction.
DoughlessI don't really have pride in my hobby efforts. I get satisfaction.
Well said Mark.
Whether you assemble you layout from all ready-to-run components, or scratchbuild everything (I think most of us are somewhere in between), you're not modeling wrong.
This is a diverse hobby, with a tremendous breadth of approaches.
Me, I don't buy RTR rolling stock (except for the occasional special-run NMRA cars and such). I enjoy building kits. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the fine details on Bowser, Tangent and other RTR product producers; I certainly do.
All my locos are RTR. I have one ancient Roundhouse Mogul kit that I may build - someday. I build my own turnouts, but use Atlas and Peco flex track (and ME where I use code 55 rail).
I've scratchbuilt a few structures, but mostly I have plastic kits and a few older wood and cardstock buildings (those 40- and 50-year old kist are a blast to build by the way, and they're dirt cheap at train shows!).
So enjoy the hobby your way, and feel free to talk about it. But don't imply that if I'm not doing it your way, I'm doing it wrong. And please don't get upset when someone else shares their preferred way of model railroading. Have fun with your approach to the hobby, and allow others the same please.
AEP528 Do you buy pre-made track components? Why don't you handlay track? Do you buy pre-made power packs or throttles? Why don't you build your own? Do you use power tools? Why not only hand tools? You're not doing it the OLD WAY. I don't scratchbuild, kitbash, or superdetail locomotives or rolling stock. I don't paint or decal locomotives or rolling stock. Why? Because I hate it. Those things are, for me, absolutely the most boring, tedious, and least worthwhile aspect of model railroading. You know what I am doing? Scratchbuilding a model railroad. Locomotives and rolling stock are components of that model railroad, as are Atlas turnouts or MRC power packs. Ready-to-run models mean I can spend nearly all of my time and effort on the aspects of model railroading that I truly enjoy. Please stop with this subject. It has, and always will have, a judgemental feel that simply cannot be avoided. Do what you like, respect what others like. Clearly this forum is not representative of the hobby as a whole, and the member here need to understand that
Do you buy pre-made track components? Why don't you handlay track?
Do you buy pre-made power packs or throttles? Why don't you build your own?
Do you use power tools? Why not only hand tools?
You're not doing it the OLD WAY.
I don't scratchbuild, kitbash, or superdetail locomotives or rolling stock. I don't paint or decal locomotives or rolling stock.
Why?
Because I hate it. Those things are, for me, absolutely the most boring, tedious, and least worthwhile aspect of model railroading.
You know what I am doing?
Scratchbuilding a model railroad. Locomotives and rolling stock are components of that model railroad, as are Atlas turnouts or MRC power packs.
Ready-to-run models mean I can spend nearly all of my time and effort on the aspects of model railroading that I truly enjoy.
Please stop with this subject. It has, and always will have, a judgemental feel that simply cannot be avoided. Do what you like, respect what others like. Clearly this forum is not representative of the hobby as a whole, and the member here need to understand that
Lots of us do both.
I use prefab track, but I also learned the skills to hand lay track, and did that on several layouts. I still build custom trackage when it is needed.
I use Aristo Train Engineer radio throttles, but I build my own complex advanced cab control system, turnout control system and signal system.
I put Homasote roadbed down with a pnuematic brad nailer, I'm a carpenter by profession, I have LOTS of power tools. I glue flex track down with modern adhesives.
I paint and decal models because I like freelance modeling and sometimes I want prototype models no body makes.
I agree, purchasing nice RTR models does free up time and skills for the things you really like.
In my case some of that is scratchbuilding or superdetailing or kit bashing to get those items nobody makes that I want for the story I want my layout to tell.
Seems sad to restrict your modeling completely to what some manufacturer has decided to make.
But I do have my share of nice RTR. Spring Mills Depot, Fox Valley, Intermoutain, etc. I model 1954, so there is not as much "high end" RTR as there is for more recent eras.
As others have commented, you sound pretty judgemental too. But I will say to you, don't expect me to be impressed with that locomotive you bought and did nothing to. Trust me, I don't envy your purchasing power.
A shot of the new ceiling in part of the train room..... and a few of the trains....
We all find our own balance, and any comments I made are a reaction to the product choices the manufacturers make, not a judgement of how others persue the hobby.
I have resin kits on my layout, I have 60 year old Athearn and Varney metal kits, I have Athearn blue box (and yellow box) kits. I have mid priced RTR, I have expensive RTR.
I have wood craftsman kits, some I built at a young age, and I'm rather proud to say they hold up pretty well against current offerings. I was piping full brake rigging on craftsman kits at age 15, I'm not impressed that you bought a bunch of high end cars with such features. So have I.
And OK, I get it, you are a layout builder. So am I, but I am also a model train buider.
As a layout builder, I prefer a lot of the "old ways". Plaster on wire screen, NO foam, homasote roadbed, DC control, no sound, no double decks, no narrow shelves that only model 90' feet either side of the tracks, no point to point layouts with lots of BORING switching at each end.
Instead I prefer nice deep scenes that allow modeling more non railroad aspects of the scene. I prefer large curves and open scenes with expansive scenery. No spaghetti bowls of track.
No 12 car trains pulled by UP Big Boys. No sharp curves with 80' passenger cars looking like LIONEL toys. No gaps between passenger car diaphragms.
Here is the plan for my new layout, progress is slow right now, but materials are now on station for benchwork construction to begin.