Just got my plain dc no sound NKP PA-1 this morning.
Also note distributors including Walthers are out of Rio Grande units. The few units still in stock at distributors are mostly LV and NKP units (which imo are the best looking models of the ones made by Rapido). Edit: the PRR, NH, Freedom Train, and SP fans should all be happy, especially with 2 versions of SP.
Held a Santa Fe one in my hands. The painted stainless steel finish does not do it, not even close to capturing the correct look of a Santa Fe unit (this is why the LV and NKP units look the best; they also have the least number of fat plastic grabs on them and their paint is pretty good). Color separations are good but not great on the NKP as there is subtle white overspray in places as others have noted. The NKP paint curves it seems are difficult to mask and paint well for anyone, and this model does have a better NKP paint job than what you'd normally see on a brass one, when you can find them (Brasstrains has one that is not as good as the Rapido model).
On my new model I fixed most of the offending crooked cylinders; some would not break free to rotate them. They may have been glued into place crooked on purpose to clear the underbody wiring that nobody can see unless the model is upside down. I personally would have glued the cylinders into the correct position and skipped the un-seeable details, also because the trucks seem to want to snag on those details.
24" radius curves are recommended. I have Kato 26.375" minimum radius with 28.75" radius effective easements into them. My trackwork easily accommodates any BLI or MTH steamer including 4-8-8-4's, 2-8-8-4's, and 4-8-4's, and even 4-12-2's. However, the PA-1 does not fully like my trackwork and in particular does not like to back up in some areas without derailing. Fortunately, I don't plan on backing up much. Forward it is working ok now after a little adjustment of a Kato #8 turnout. Had to fix a low spot at a joint in close proximity to the frog. PA-1 doesn't like a sag kink anywhere.
The model is noisier in plain dc than other Rapido engines I have had. It runs fast, can easily achieve the 117 mph prototypical top speed if desired. It pulls extremely well--I have to give it that. It pulls as well as some heavier larger diesels, so I would think a couple units could pull most decent length passenger trains.
As compared to the Bowser brand new RS-3 model, the Bowser in plain dc runs much quieter. Bowser did a better job on road specific details and getting everything to fit exceptionally well. I believe that to be an honest and fair comparison. That's not trashing the Rapido PA-1, but merely comparing it to the other most current new loco that is out.
The Rapido PA-1 is a very good model. There are legitimate concerns with the front windshield shape and location (offset) of the trim piece around the front windshield not being quite correct especially at the outer corners. Most will not compare it to a prototype photo to care. The side grills look much better than the Walthers/Proto model. Overall it is probably a nicer model than that older, now somewhat dated Proto body. They could have done a bit more pilot detail right around the coupler and its opening. That appears to be a missing item. Imo it would have been better to skip the underbody wiring that can get in the way of truck swing, and to instead spend a little more effort on the coupler pocket itself, but that's my opinion and I don't get to tool up models.
Overall, for most people it is a really nice model worthy of a spot on your roster. Diehard Santa Fe and D&H fans might not be happy with anything less than a real metal plated finish, because that's what they've come to expect especially with Walthers and Genesis F units having set such a high standard.
I consider this to be a very good model that could have been the "standard" against which all other PA models are ever measured, but they didn't quite get it that good.
Having run it and played with it, I am glad I got one.
John
SeeYou190How thick is the paint? Could I paint over, or would I need to strip?
Not overly thick I would say. Rather than NYC stripes which might be hard to hide even if you try to remove them you might want to think about the "Bloody Nose" SP scheme? Solid gray. Possibly you could remove the lettering, with luck, and retain the red nose and claim S&G had it first and the SP/Cotton Belt borrowed it from you!
I know somebody that could fix you up with a nice pair of Proto 2000 NYC A-B PAs if you're interested Only driven to the bingo games on Wednesday night and choir practice on Saturday mornings...
Good Luck, Ed
gmpullmanPresently the pair are pulling a seventeen-car "Merchant's Limited" (Rapido Pullman, New Haven 8600 coaches, two diners and four parlor cars) which is what I had on the main at the time.
I could never fit a 17 car train in the space I have for a layout.
My maximum passenger train length I calculated at 2 locomotives and seven cars. I am sure virtually any locomotive can handle that.
I currently have Athearn PAs, I never upgraded to Proto-2000 models, so these would be a big step up.
How thick is the paint? Could I paint over, or would I need to strip?
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190OK... PA owners... How do they run and pull?
I only have an hour of "break-in" time on my NKP pair. I'm very impressed. If you get DC models you'll have plenty of room to add a little weight§. Presently the pair are pulling a seventeen-car "Merchant's Limited" (Rapido Pullman, New Haven 8600 coaches, two diners and four parlor cars) which is what I had on the main at the time.
I just got an email from Scale Sound systems that they have already developed a custom fit speaker for the PAs. A worthy upgrade. The Rapido designers seem to like iphone speakers and I'm not impressed with these especially compared to the SSS performance.
I just ordered an NYC A-B set from MB Klein. (ModelTrainStuff) don't forget to type in laborday10 for a 10% additional off.
§ If that's your cup of tea.
Happy modeling.
n012944Lombard-Hobby-Rapido
Well, that give me something to think about.
$350.00 for a PA/PB pair, and the NYC Lightning Stripe looks like a possible paint-over job.
OK... PA owners... How do they run and pull?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL n012944 I have no affiliation with Lombard Hobbies, however they have just posted the PAs for sale, at a decent discount. 2 of them as DC models would not end up as a "$400 locomotive". Roadname?
n012944 I have no affiliation with Lombard Hobbies, however they have just posted the PAs for sale, at a decent discount. 2 of them as DC models would not end up as a "$400 locomotive".
I have no affiliation with Lombard Hobbies, however they have just posted the PAs for sale, at a decent discount. 2 of them as DC models would not end up as a "$400 locomotive".
Roadname?
https://lombardhobby.com/rapido-ho/
An "expensive model collector"
Doughless riogrande5761 Semi interested. The PA's really fall outside of my primary interest time period but as often happens, it can be interesting to run a few trains from an earlier time period. Years ago I bought the Proto2000 D&RGW yellow 4 stripe PA, which wasn't a bad looking engine at the time. It looks like Rapido may be trying to make this D&RGW PA fit 50's and 60's with the late style grab iron details and toe creep way etc. but tossing in the side number boards as an option. But even though my disposable income is more than it used to be, the costs of engines and models in general are forcing many of us to make choices. I would think 1977 would be too late for a PA. Cool paint scheme for that loco though. You would want matching cars too, no?
riogrande5761 Semi interested. The PA's really fall outside of my primary interest time period but as often happens, it can be interesting to run a few trains from an earlier time period. Years ago I bought the Proto2000 D&RGW yellow 4 stripe PA, which wasn't a bad looking engine at the time. It looks like Rapido may be trying to make this D&RGW PA fit 50's and 60's with the late style grab iron details and toe creep way etc. but tossing in the side number boards as an option. But even though my disposable income is more than it used to be, the costs of engines and models in general are forcing many of us to make choices.
Semi interested. The PA's really fall outside of my primary interest time period but as often happens, it can be interesting to run a few trains from an earlier time period. Years ago I bought the Proto2000 D&RGW yellow 4 stripe PA, which wasn't a bad looking engine at the time. It looks like Rapido may be trying to make this D&RGW PA fit 50's and 60's with the late style grab iron details and toe creep way etc. but tossing in the side number boards as an option. But even though my disposable income is more than it used to be, the costs of engines and models in general are forcing many of us to make choices.
I would think 1977 would be too late for a PA. Cool paint scheme for that loco though.
You would want matching cars too, no?
The 4 D&H PA's were in service until 1978, so 1977 could work.
- Douglas
riogrande5761Years ago I bought the Proto2000 D&RGW yellow 4 stripe PA, which wasn't a bad looking engine at the time.
Your standards must be higher than mine are.
I thought that was a great example of an Alco PA in a gorgeous paint scheme.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 Major topic drift as usual. What about the PA's?
Major topic drift as usual. What about the PA's?
The thread was asking about happiness, a judgment thingy, and that can vary amongst buyers for various reasons. Its relevant to explore motivations and goals when the topic is about happiness with a product.
Innocent friendly banter keeps threads from becoming an impersonal cold hearted listing of facts, IMO, and can be categorized as humorous intermission.
You know the undertones in model railroading threads across the internet. Many people take sides when it comes to producers because of their particular perspective on the hobby.
Are you interested in the Rio Grande PAs, or just new products from Rapido in general?
I often choose to upgrade to the latest or perceived by me to be nicest new model. I only have a modest railroad. If/when I get to 10 diesels, I start to think I might have too many, and everything gets run and earns its keep.
The professional engineer in me very much appreciates all the advancements that some manufacturers have made that now enable them to offer correct tooling for every possible roadname variation of some models. I find that to be way cool. Others would not care. I see what I see and like what I like.
Since I don't need 1000 freight cars or 100 locos to operate my layout, and I wouldn't feel comfortable tying up that kind of money even if accumulated over many years, I don't have qualms about having a few nice freight cars and state-of-the-art locos.
So, yeah, I often choose to upgrade or trade-in to the latest/greatest new model. Sometimes they turn out to be not what I expected (RS-11, also Genesis GP-7's in totally wrong paint color ie Maine Central, or B36-7 in horribly mismatched paint colors ie SPSF red and yellow both incorrect, far away from both prototype and Genesis colors). Sometimes they far exceed my expectations. I like ScaleTrains lighting features, but they do not happen to offer a diesel that I currently need.
Then my freight car roster adjusts to whatever era it needs to in order to fit with the locos. Right now I'm getting ready to sell a bunch of Tangent/Exactrail/Genesis/Intermountain/ScaleTrains freight cars. Some won't sell till a train show in February where I will share a table once again.
They are being replaced with mostly Kadee and a few Moloco freight cars appropriate for 1966 and prior. Many NKP locos were stll wearing full NKP paint in 1966, 2 years after the N&W merger, and I'm going to have plenty of NKP locos now that they are actually available (besides merely 1 PA-1) with more coming in spring.
OldEnginemanKevin, your "nonsense" boxcars are terrific.
Thank you for your kind comment. At last count I had over 100 different ficticious roadnames in the fleet. I have no idea how many are there now.
Back in the 1980s and 1990s I made dozens of trades with others for sets of custom decals. This was all pre-internet. It was a lot of fun.
The quality of these custom made decals is very good. All of these 30-40 year old decal sets still work just fine.
I think 20 or so of the freight cars were lettered with individual letters, like the SOUTH RICKMORT car. I don't so this very often.
The make believe freight cars are really a hobby within the hobby for me. I really get a kick out of making these.
When I get my workshop up and running again (don't hold your breath), drop me an email and I will send you an SGRR freight car.
Kevin, your "nonsense" boxcars are terrific.
You could go into business selling these paint/decal schemes. Nothing fancy, just custom-finished basic Athearn boxcar shells. It's the paint/roadnames that make the difference.
I'd buy some...!
Here are my two, they look good to me and I will be running them at the club on Saturday.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
My dogs cut the grass.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
DoughlessI might start posting pics of my EZGO as much as Sheldon posts pics of his GRAVELY.
Ed posted a picture of his Club Car, your turn!
Bonus points for including cats.
Wilson and Cicero are Club Car kind of guys.
IMG_6608 by Edmund, on Flickr
Sorry, just had to do it
Regards, Ed
SeeYou190 Doughless Student parking lot at the local high school. It looks like The Villages. Prepping the kids for old age in Florida I see. -Kevin
Doughless Student parking lot at the local high school.
It looks like The Villages. Prepping the kids for old age in Florida I see.
We should probably get back on topic.
I might start posting pics of my EZGO as much as Sheldon posts pics of his GRAVELY.
Ed posted some nice pictures, he seems happy with his. I do agree they look nice.
John is trying to get one but has heard some others are not as happy.
Other hearsay reports are mixed.
And again, I tried to buy some, but they decided not to make my roadname.
So I bought a few more NOS Proto2000 versions off Ebay....
So now I have three A/B sets, more than I really need but the prices were right and they run great, and I already had some spare parts on hand.
I had the day off today, and felt like taking it easy. But don't worry, tomorrow I will be back at work and not have time for this.
Sheldon
riogrande5761Major topic drift as usual. What about the PA's?
I tried to take some of the topic drift to a new thread and got yelled at for it.
I was not going to go there.....
Douglas, interesting about the golf carts and paths. We don't have cart paths or sidewalks out here with the cows and corn fields....
In the town they have sidewalks, and taxi trams - you know, over sized public golf cart taxis.
We park our car near what we need to do in town and walk - it's a small town and not that busy/crowded.
I almost want to ask you more about where you live...... almost. Somehow I just get a feeling it would not be the right setting for me. My youngest kid is 38......
You are correct about many of the advancements in the hobby not being in areas of importance to me.
The advancements that matter most to me happened in the 80's and early 90's.
A lot of my locos do have LED lighting, but just headlights, no ditch lights, etc. They did not exist yet.
So it clear that a lot of this comes down to DCC and sound. I have operated many hours on other peoples DCC layouts, with and without sound. It did not win me over.
The same way my brain hurts when people around me listen to music on their cell phones.
Thanks for sharing,
DoughlessStudent parking lot at the local high school.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI replace things when a new version REALLY does a better job and doing that task better will have impact
ATLANTIC CENTRALBut part of this question is what defines "better"
ATLANTIC CENTRALSo what defines better with model trains? Sound?, DCC?, more detail?, accuracy?
ATLANTIC CENTRALAnd a Proto2000 GP7 will always be detailed enough, and in proper running order, run well enough.
These are the answers I expected. Your goals or interests do not include a lot of the areas where the "advancements" have come over the decades; digital control, onboard sound, even LED lighting.
The products have evolved in areas that don't interest you, so the models you already have stay that much more relevant. I'm the same way with self-driving cars and parking assist features.
So to you, the advancement in these models comes from the details and possibly the quality of the paint. That's pretty much it.
The new models simply don't offer you enough to replace the old ones.
For a lot of us though, they do. A modern Genesis GP7 offers us much more than the Life Like Proto GP7 from 1998. Eventhough the detail quality is not that much better. A knew Loksound V5 locomotive is a lot better than a 15 year old QSI.
As far as keeping things and making them last...buying well and holding....that's more about money management over the long term than it is about trains. Just a way of life. That's how you buy things, and trains are no different.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI just have to ask, why do you own a golf cart?
For transportation, believe it or not. Where we live, we have 100 miles of cart paths, no sidewalks. The kids can drive themselves when they turn 15 and get a learners permit, and to school and to work since business have designated parking. The parental taxi service stops then, and its a relief. Kids can legally drive golf carts at age 12, as long as an adult is beside them in the front seat. Not to mention beating the traffic when leaving concerts, or picking up a couple of bags of groceries at Kroger.
Student parking lot at the local high school.
John-NYBW ATLANTIC CENTRAL And Ed, your Proto unit is missing the coupler lift bar it came with, note my picture from the bottom. Sheldon OFF TOPIC: Sheldon, I located the two RDCs you were interested in. I think you asked me to contact you by message or Facebook. The message feature doesn't seem to be working and I'm not sure how to find you on Facebook. I have a Facebook account but the only thing I've ever used it for is to sign into websites that ask you to sign on through Facebook. You can contact me via email at jecorbett19580@yahoo.com. This is my junk email address so I'm not concerned about making it public. I only check it when I am expecting somebody to send me something.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL And Ed, your Proto unit is missing the coupler lift bar it came with, note my picture from the bottom. Sheldon
And Ed, your Proto unit is missing the coupler lift bar it came with, note my picture from the bottom.
OFF TOPIC:
Sheldon, I located the two RDCs you were interested in. I think you asked me to contact you by message or Facebook. The message feature doesn't seem to be working and I'm not sure how to find you on Facebook. I have a Facebook account but the only thing I've ever used it for is to sign into websites that ask you to sign on through Facebook.
You can contact me via email at jecorbett19580@yahoo.com. This is my junk email address so I'm not concerned about making it public. I only check it when I am expecting somebody to send me something.
Email sent.