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Turnout position on yard lead

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Turnout position on yard lead
Posted by NYBob on Thursday, August 4, 2022 3:14 PM

I have an 2 track industry that goes straight off the yard lead and the turnout also goes to the main line. Should the turnout all ways be lined to the main or to the industry When the lead is inactive?

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Posted by wrench567 on Thursday, August 4, 2022 8:59 PM

 General rule is to set the turnout so a following train will not come onto the track your working. Hope this answers your question.

    Pete.

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Posted by zugmann on Thursday, August 4, 2022 9:49 PM

NYBob
I have an 2 track industry that goes straight off the yard lead and the turnout also goes to the main line. Should the turnout all ways be lined to the main or to the industry When the lead is inactive?

Unless specific instructions say otherwise : switches should be lined and locked (if equipped) normal when not in use.  "Normal" being lined for main track movement - and not into an industry. 

  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of

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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, August 4, 2022 10:37 PM

zugmann

 

 
NYBob
I have an 2 track industry that goes straight off the yard lead and the turnout also goes to the main line. Should the turnout all ways be lined to the main or to the industry When the lead is inactive?

 

Unless specific instructions say otherwise : switches should be lined and locked (if equipped) normal when not in use.  "Normal" being lined for main track movement - and not into an industry. 

 

I don't think he's asking about a main track switch, but a switch on the lead that one way goes into an industry, the other continues on the lead which then connects back into the main at another switch.

If this is the case, the switch should be lined for the lead, towards the main, and not into the industry.  If it's left lined into the industry, a railroad move gone wrong (car or locomotive unintentionally rolling away) could roll right into the industry and strike cars all ready spotted.  Including cars that might have people actively loading or unloading.  If going fast enough they could run off the end of the track and cause damage within the industry.

Jeff  

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Posted by jpg on Friday, August 5, 2022 12:27 AM

And I think (I'm no expert) there should be a derailer on the industry track between the switch and the spot locations, oriented to derail any car on the industry track that ends up rolling back toward the switch and derail the car away from the switch (so the derailed car doesn't foul it, going off to the other side of the industry track instead).

If you want to model derailers.

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Friday, August 5, 2022 8:50 AM

Maine Lion switches are always set and locked for the main lion unless actually in use. Most Maine Lion switches are controlled by the tower (Yeah... Right) and are none of your bee's knees. If there is a spur off of a siding, the switch is reset to the siding unless ewe are actually using the switch for switching.

Rules on your layout may vary... always defer to your rule book.

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by cv_acr on Friday, August 5, 2022 9:14 AM

NYBob
I have an 2 track industry that goes straight off the yard lead and the turnout also goes to the main line.

Honestly I can't quite interpret what's going on here, but any main track switch must always be lined "normal" for the main track.

Non-main track switches (like within a classification yard) may be left reversed, but a switch leading to an industry spur would also be lined normal to the lead so an errant move doesn't end up in the industry.

jpg
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Posted by jpg on Saturday, August 6, 2022 12:23 AM

BroadwayLion

Maine Lion switches are always set and locked for the main lion unless actually in use. Most Maine Lion switches are controlled by the tower (Yeah... Right) and are none of your bee's knees. If there is a spur off of a siding, the switch is reset to the siding unless ewe are actually using the switch for switching.

Rules on your layout may vary... always defer to your rule book.

 

 

Aren't you ever so precious!

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Posted by crossthedog on Saturday, August 6, 2022 12:50 AM

cv_acr
Honestly I can't quite interpret what's going on here, but any main track switch must always be lined "normal" for the main track

This isn't a switch on the main line. It's a switch on a siding off the main line. The switch directs either back to the main or else to a spur.

That's what I understood anyway.

Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.

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Posted by pt714 on Saturday, August 6, 2022 7:43 PM

crossthedog
cv_acr
Honestly I can't quite interpret what's going on here, but any main track switch must always be lined "normal" for the main track

 

This isn't a switch on the main line. It's a switch on a siding off the main line. The switch directs either back to the main or else to a spur.

That's what I understood anyway.

 

 

This is also how I interpret it, and aligns with what Jeff said above. I'd think the lead would be lined to go back to the main, a sort of hierarchy of track flow being main > lead > industry.

Beyond the safety reasons already described, isn't the track beyond the turnout (whether off the main, or in this case off the yard lead) industry-owned? My first thought is that that track would be unavailable anyway for any move that didn't involve the industry, like yard work (for instance to avoid fouling the main.) 

Phil

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Posted by NYBob on Sunday, August 7, 2022 12:36 PM

Phil, yes that's how the track looks except the lead is curved  coming off the freight yard. The schematic would be what u drew. 

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Posted by crossthedog on Sunday, August 7, 2022 6:34 PM

Sheesh. I'm workin' too hard.

Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.

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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, August 7, 2022 6:43 PM

crossthedog

 

 
cv_acr
Honestly I can't quite interpret what's going on here, but any main track switch must always be lined "normal" for the main track

 

This isn't a switch on the main line. It's a switch on a siding off the main line. The switch directs either back to the main or else to a spur.

That's what I understood anyway.

 

This is one of those cases of "see local practice".  You could make the case for the top switch being lined either way. (do we go by crossover switches left normal, or do we take normal for being lined away from the industry)?

 

Local operating rules/sup't bulletin/local traditions/whatever the FRA guy says would apply here.  

  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of

my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.

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Posted by cv_acr on Monday, August 8, 2022 2:44 PM

zugmann
This is one of those cases of "see local practice".  You could make the case for the top switch being lined either way. (do we go by crossover switches left normal, or do we take normal for being lined away from the industry)?

In one sense if you look at just the two swtiches out of context, it looks like a crossover, but operationally it's not a crossover between two parallel tracks, it's a combination of the end of the siding/lead joining into the main track, and an industry spur.

"Normal" position would be for movement towards the main track, not the industry. This can be indicated with a footnote/diagram and/or using the correct yellow/red and green position indicators (LED/lights on the fascia for powered switched, painted ground throw handles, etc.) for the switches the way prototype switch targets indicate normal/reverse direction. (Green for normal, yellow for reversed on non-main-track switches, red for reversed on main-track switches.) 

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Posted by jjdamnit on Monday, August 8, 2022 2:56 PM

Hello All,

crossthedog
Sheesh. I'm workin' too hard.

Thank you for your hard work!

If the provided diagram represents the OPs question- -the two (2) turnouts create a crossover.

On my pike, I have a similar track arrangement.

In my situation, both turnouts are controlled by a single switch box, when the switch is activated both turnouts align to either the normal or divergent position.

When the crossover is not active the turnouts are aligned to the normal position.

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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