i just pre-ordered 2 Division Point brass steam engines by Boo Rim of Korea, an SP-MK5/6 2-8-2 Heavy Mikado & Baldwin T2 2-6-2 logging engine W/ slope back tender. At this i have no idea as to when the engines will arrive in the US or what price i can expect to pay. All ReSourced Rails told me was that the shipping container alone cost 3x more ($36,000) than just two years ago, notwitstading truck diesel fuel cost for delivery. With BLI's new GP-30 DCC plastic engine retailing at $400.00, and 40 year old brass steam engines graded at a 7 or above going for up to $1,000 or higher W/no paint/no can motor/ & dried up grease in the gears (that has to be cleaned out by hand) i was informed by the guys at Yankee Dabbler the cost of converting an old brass engine to modern day DCC W ESU LOK sound decorder can add another up to $500 dollars or more to the original purchase price. So after 30 years of wanting brass steam on my HO layout I am prepared to the "bite the bullett". Bayway Terminal NJ
richhotrainIt is averaging 800 views per day.
I am amazed at the number of lurkers this site has. People really do come here for information and/or entertainment.
My how I built my paint booth thread still get plenty of views even though it has not been on the front page in months.
Bayway TerminalBoo Rim of Korea
Now there is something that really does cost an arm and a leg!
We are back on topic!
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 richhotrain It is averaging 800 views per day. I am amazed at the number of lurkers this site has. People really do come here for information and/or entertainment.
richhotrain It is averaging 800 views per day.
Rich
Alton Junction
I decided to bite the bullet on a brass freight car a few years ago well before the latest inflation. (It doesn't exist in plastic and hadn't before been made in brass.) I paid for it by sending installments to the importer. As I recall it ended up somewhere around $300 - 350 w/ shipping. Nice car except the scheme is wrong on one side. I just run it with the correct side out. Expensive for me but I decided I wanted it badly.
FRRYKidice car except the scheme is wrong on one side. I just run it with the correct side out.
I have noticed that over time, all my freight cars tend to get run "good side out".
There is always one side where I did better on the decals and finishing.
-Photograph by Kevin Parson
The equipment potraits always show the good side. The above picture shows a test paint scheme on a car that was given away, but made its way back to me. I think I painted that one about 15 years ago.
Bayway Terminal i just pre-ordered 2 Division Point brass steam engines by Boo Rim of Korea, an SP-MK5/6 2-8-2 Heavy Mikado & Baldwin T2 2-6-2 logging engine W/ slope back tender. At this i have no idea as to when the engines will arrive in the US or what price i can expect to pay. All ReSourced Rails told me was that the shipping container alone cost 3x more ($36,000) than just two years ago, notwitstading truck diesel fuel cost for delivery. With BLI's new GP-30 DCC plastic engine retailing at $400.00, and 40 year old brass steam engines graded at a 7 or above going for up to $1,000 or higher W/no paint/no can motor/ & dried up grease in the gears (that has to be cleaned out by hand) i was informed by the guys at Yankee Dabbler the cost of converting an old brass engine to modern day DCC W ESU LOK sound decorder can add another up to $500 dollars or more to the original purchase price. So after 30 years of wanting brass steam on my HO layout I am prepared to the "bite the bullett". Bayway Terminal NJ
Well, congratulations to your purchase (or, more precisely, pre-order). Division Point locomotives are extremely well detailed and run like a charm. I have several of their Santa Fe class 885 Mikados and class 900/1600 2-10-2s steam locomotives and they are my favorites (out of >100 "plastic" and brass locos).
As to the possible price, DP recently produced a number of versions of SP's cab forwards, and they sold for around $4,500. Of course, this is an articulated engine which is a bit more costly to produce. On the other hand, their latest Santa Fe diesel (which is less complicated than a steamer) was the Baldwin DT-6-6-2000 a couple of years ago, which sold for ~ $1,500. Thus, my guess for the locos you pre-ordered would be $3,000 - 3,500 a piece.
I have a 1956 American Flyer catalog.A 1956 American Flyer GP7 cost $25.According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm$25 in 1956 equals $269.69 in 2022. And that's an American Flyer "semi scale" model.Ba dum pum.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
What is "an arm and a leg" really?
When there is something I need to make my vision come to life, I am going to buy it. I paid about $200.00 each for my brass USRA locomotives. Not much really, but a good sum for a toy. I don't need any more, so even if one comes up for sale for half that price I won't buy it.
I would have paid more if I needed to.
My most expensive locomotive purchase was a United/PFM 2-6-2 logging locomotive. I did not really want it, but my wife thought it was the cutest train she had ever seen. I bought it to make her happy. It was worth it.
My biggest locomotive is my Bachmann 2-8-8-4, and I paid more for it than any of my brass USRA steamers. It will go through a 22 inch radius curve, which I could not be sure a brass articulated locomotive would do.
Now that I have "lifetime supplies" of nearly everything I can think of, I am buying almost nothing.
I remember when I was given my first brass locomotive. I thought that it was an extravagent gift, and I did not think I would ever be able to buy a second.
Now I have a fleet of brass locomotives, but I also still have that first one.
Bayfield Transfer Railway I have a 1956 American Flyer catalog.A 1956 American Flyer GP7 cost $25.According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm$25 in 1956 equals $269.69 in 2022. And that's an American Flyer "semi scale" model.Ba dum pum.
1. American Flyer is no longer in business, so who 's to say what AF would charge today for a GP7.
2. $25 would be considered expensive by many folks back then, so what's changed? Many folks would consider $269.69 expensive today.
3. Manufacturers don't price their locomotives based upon the Consumer Price Index. In fact, no manufacturers do.
4. Wages have not kept pace with inflation according to the US Bureau of Labor. $269.69 is more expensive today than $25 in 1956, so the price today should be less to avoid being considered more expensive than the same model in 1956.
Dum da dum dum.
SeeYou190 What is "an arm and a leg" really? When there is something I need to make my vision come to life, I am going to buy it. I paid about $200.00 each for my brass USRA locomotives. Not much really, but a good sum for a toy. I don't need any more, so even if one comes up for sale for half that price I won't buy it. I would have paid more if I needed to.
My most expensive locomotive is a Bowser VO-1000 with sound that cost me $279. I winced when I paid it, and I cringe every time I look at that little sucker on the layout. $279 for a switcher? What was I thinking?
My most expensive passenger car, my passion is passenger trains, was $80 for a Walthers Santa Fe observation car. I try to spend no more than $50 for a passenger car. I don't need lighting or sound.
My most expensive freight was, of all things, a caboose. For some dumb reason, I spent $56 for a Walthers caboose. $56 for a caboose?
richhotrainI spent $56 for a Walthers caboose. $56 for a caboose?
All of my cabooses are brass.
Ugh!
richhotrain Bayfield Transfer Railway I have a 1956 American Flyer catalog.A 1956 American Flyer GP7 cost $25.According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm$25 in 1956 equals $269.69 in 2022. And that's an American Flyer "semi scale" model.Ba dum pum. Here are four reasons why your comments prove nothing. 1. American Flyer is no longer in business, so who 's to say what AF would charge today for a GP7. 2. $25 would be considered expensive by many folks back then, so what's changed? Many folks would consider $269.69 expensive today. 3. Manufacturers don't price their locomotives based upon the Consumer Price Index. In fact, no manufacturers do. 4. Wages have not kept pace with inflation according to the US Bureau of Labor. $269.69 is more expensive today than $25 in 1956, so the price today should be less to avoid being considered more expensive than the same model in 1956. Dum da dum dum. Rich
Here are four reasons why your comments prove nothing.
Agreed, wages and net income have not kept pace with inflation. That is a topic for a different forum.......
$25 was expensive in 1956......
The hobby was expensive then too.......
And again, manufacturers price products based on cost to produce, plus necessary and customary overhead and supply chain markups.
There are a number of economic variables that make prices effectively higher or lower from time to time, but averaged out over the long history, the cost of the hobby today is similar to nearly every period in its past.
I personally have experianced 5 decades of that past, and worked in this industry for more than a decade.
And I'm not a price complainer. I found money for this hobby when I was 12 - I cut lawns, raked leaves, tied up boats at a local waterfront resturant for tips, etc - my parents did not fund my hobby beyond the intitial investment over many years in the layout my father build and graciously gifted to my control.
By age 14 I worked in the local hobby shop - I tire of these comments about cost vs "bringing young people into the hobby". Cost is not the limiting factor - mentorship is.
If you want fancy RTR Surfliners, you simply need to pony up the price......
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL There are a number of economic variables that make prices effectively higher or lower from time to time, but averaged out over the long history, the cost of the hobby today is similar to nearly every period in its past. If you want fancy RTR Surfliners, you simply need to pony up the price......
There is an important distinction between "the hobby is expensive" and "the hobby is getting more expensive".
Prices for any item are dictated by the law of supply and demand. Inflation affects the value of money and is driven by the supply of money in relation to the goods and services being produced. When the money supply is inflated, the dollars become less valueable and it requires more of them to buy goods.
The short answer is that both inflation and supply and demand will determine the price of anything.
The price indeed has gone up a lot recently. I bought several Walther AM Fleet at around $32. One week later, the price has changed to $37. Don't know what makes the price change as they are listed on the same vendor's website. But anyway, we pay at the price we feel comfortable to buy what we want. It is hard to compare the price 10 years ago. Also, the locos have more details today than 10 years ago. 10 years ago, almost no locos had ground light. Today, more and more locos have ground light, which is pretty cool...
Jerry
If you ask me the price of motive power has gone down overall, I mean an NW2 with sound and DCC for $145 is pretty cheap. I have found it harder of late to get deals on rolling stock though, luckily I don't need any but I do keep looking. Reason for some things going up is shipping for sure and few e-bay deals, not just because of wants but the search engine there is totaly broken and their pricing for shipping is wrong more than right.
I look for bargains. That way it only costs a couple fingers and a little toe.
Pete
wrench567 I look for bargains. That way it only costs a couple fingers and a little toe. Pete
Thats fine if you are looking for older stuff, but newly produced stuff, which is often much more accurate, just costs more. It totally depends on what you are willing to settle for or what satisfies you. Or as they say "pick your poison". Some poison costs more than other poisions.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
SeeYou190 richhotrain I spent $56 for a Walthers caboose. $56 for a caboose? All of my cabooses are brass. Ugh! -Kevin
richhotrain I spent $56 for a Walthers caboose. $56 for a caboose?
riogrande5761 wrench567 I look for bargains. That way it only costs a couple fingers and a little toe. Pete Thats fine if you are looking for older stuff, but newly produced stuff, which is often much more accurate, just costs more. It totally depends on what you are willing to settle for or what satisfies you. Or as they say "pick your poison". Some poison costs more than other poisions.
This is why I'm glad I'm a freelancer. Accurate is whatever I say it is. Generic models work just find for me, even those that are built for real railroads. If I can make up a whole different railroad going through fictional towns, it's not at all a stretch to have non-prototypical details.
John-NYBW riogrande5761 wrench567 I look for bargains. That way it only costs a couple fingers and a little toe. Pete Thats fine if you are looking for older stuff, but newly produced stuff, which is often much more accurate, just costs more. It totally depends on what you are willing to settle for or what satisfies you. Or as they say "pick your poison". Some poison costs more than other poisions. This is why I'm glad I'm a freelancer. Accurate is whatever I say it is. Generic models work just find for me, even those that are built for real railroads. If I can make up a whole different railroad going through fictional towns, it's not at all a stretch to have non-prototypical details.
Yes, me too. I model my fictional ATLANTIC CENTRAL and the B&O, C&O, and WESTERN MARYLAND.
I like accuracy within reason, but I am more about the "big picture" not every detail on every piece of equipment. It is about creating the "flavor" of the real thing - not every rivet.
But this modern wave of high detail equipment has raised rivet counting to a new level.
And I have had this conversation on here many time with RioGrande and others. I don't do stuff that is obviously out of place. I will take perfect when it is available and not cost prohibitive.
But I'm not replacing 50 years worth of modeling for a few inches or a few rivets.
And in my case, modeling 1954, there is a TON of stuff that has not yet been in made in some "perfect" high end piece of RTR.
Nobody has yet to make many of the passemger cars the B&O converted from heavyweights into smooth side cars in plastic or brass, just as an example.
I'm very happy with "close enough".
Having said that, I don't have BigBoys lettered ATLANTIC CENTRAL - no east coast road would have ever bought one......
I have a 140 piece loco roster - purchased at a dollar cost average of $110 each.... Disclaimer - no DCC or sound - don't need that extra cost either.
John-NYBWThis is why I'm glad I'm a freelancer. Accurate is whatever I say it is. Generic models work just find for me, even those that are built for real railroads. If I can make up a whole different railroad going through fictional towns, it's not at all a stretch to have non-prototypical details.
Free lancing has never been something I wanted to do. One down side is you need something I have very little of what I have: hobby time. Because you need to custom paint alot of models. So you also need good paint and decal skills, not something all of us can brag about or actually want to do.
But wonderfully, there are a lot of accurate models that we can enjoy these days so both bases are covered.
rrebell John-NYBW riogrande5761 wrench567 I look for bargains. That way it only costs a couple fingers and a little toe. Pete Thats fine if you are looking for older stuff, but newly produced stuff, which is often much more accurate, just costs more. It totally depends on what you are willing to settle for or what satisfies you. Or as they say "pick your poison". Some poison costs more than other poisions. This is why I'm glad I'm a freelancer. Accurate is whatever I say it is. Generic models work just find for me, even those that are built for real railroads. If I can make up a whole different railroad going through fictional towns, it's not at all a stretch to have non-prototypical details. Also I always see people say this or that is not accurate only to have someone find a pic. I remember one person talking about billboard reefers and saying they were gone by X date because of rules but me peresonally seeing one still in use long after, I mean long.
Also I always see people say this or that is not accurate only to have someone find a pic. I remember one person talking about billboard reefers and saying they were gone by X date because of rules but me peresonally seeing one still in use long after, I mean long.
The fingers and toes post was meant to be comical.
But I do shop around. I was going to jump on a Bowser RS3 with the train phone antenna with sound but decided to make a truck payment instead. It is just a hobby and want and need are two different things. Like the bumper sticker said, "All I want is a little more than I'll ever have." Such is life. With today's economy my disposable income is not so disposable. Having a fixed income sucks when everything is almost doubled in price in a matter of months. They just raised my property tax just went up $300 per half year. Gotta pay for the golf course that doesn't pay for itself and affordable housing for town employees. Forget the people who actually pay the taxes.
Pete.
southernpacificgs4"Model trains cost an arm and a leg".
Well, I suppose that some of them do, but if that were the case for me, I'd still be trying how to figure out a way to run an electric wheelchair down the stairs to the layout room (or back up to the bathroom), especially if the tongue-operated electric motor switch (both arms would have been long-gone) wasn't functioning properly.
I started out in HO at age 9, with a 4'x8' layout, built mostly by my father, and I added to it when I had money to do so...usually structures and details, and occasionally a freight car or two.
Later, after dropping-out of model trains in my teens, I re-started the hobby and bought cheaper stuff... some of it was from Athearn and Model Die Casting, some Tyco, some John English, and also some stuff which might nowadays be considered junk. I also bought off the "used" table at hobbyshops, picking up damaged locos and cars, some poorly built kits, and other ones with missing parts.
Through trial and error, I learned how to fix locomotives, then learned how to detail them (and rolling stock, too).
I also learned how to scratchbuild structures and rolling stock, then learned how to paint professionally (never made much from that, mainly because I was unaware of what I should have been charging). I still paint (and letter) pretty-well all of my train-related stuff, and still do custom painting for friends, usually for the cost of the paint and lettering. I also re-detail them to suit the owner's requests.
I have, in the past, bought a few "high quality" (and high-priced) items, but usually only as undecorated kits. I have a few brass locomotives, usually unpainted or poorly painted, and often damaged or not running well...if the price was right, I knew that I was capable of making it better.
I've been retired now for over a couple of decades, and could afford to buy pretty-well anything that catches my attention, but to be perfectly honest, I have pretty-well everything that I need or wanted.
What I have suits my needs and likes, and when I'm done, I'm sure that most of what I have will be of use or interest to someone, and it will cost them neither an arm nor a leg.
Wayne
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Yes, me too. I model my fictional ATLANTIC CENTRAL and the B&O, C&O, and WESTERN MARYLAND. I like accuracy within reason, but I am more about the "big picture" not every detail on every piece of equipment. It is about creating the "flavor" of the real thing - not every rivet. But this modern wave of high detail equipment has raised rivet counting to a new level. And I have had this conversation on here many time with RioGrande and others. I don't do stuff that is obviously out of place. I will take perfect when it is available and not cost prohibitive. But I'm not replacing 50 years worth of modeling for a few inches or a few rivets. And in my case, modeling 1954, there is a TON of stuff that has not yet been in made in some "perfect" high end piece of RTR. Nobody has yet to make many of the passemger cars the B&O converted from heavyweights into smooth side cars in plastic or brass, just as an example. I'm very happy with "close enough". Having said that, I don't have BigBoys lettered ATLANTIC CENTRAL - no east coast road would have ever bought one...... I have a 140 piece loco roster - purchased at a dollar cost average of $110 each.... Disclaimer - no DCC or sound - don't need that extra cost either. Sheldon
I have a 140 piece loco roster - purchased at a dollar cost average of $110 each.... Disclaimer - no DCC or sound - don't need that extra cost either. Sheldon
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
riogrande5761 John-NYBW This is why I'm glad I'm a freelancer. Accurate is whatever I say it is. Generic models work just find for me, even those that are built for real railroads. If I can make up a whole different railroad going through fictional towns, it's not at all a stretch to have non-prototypical details. Free lancing has never been something I wanted to do. One down side is you need something I have very little of what I have: hobby time. Because you need to custom paint alot of models. So you also need good paint and decal skills, not something all of us can brag about or actually want to do. But wonderfully, there are a lot of accurate models that we can enjoy these days so both bases are covered.
John-NYBW This is why I'm glad I'm a freelancer. Accurate is whatever I say it is. Generic models work just find for me, even those that are built for real railroads. If I can make up a whole different railroad going through fictional towns, it's not at all a stretch to have non-prototypical details.
Just to be clear, there all various types/degrees of "freelancing", and/or "protolancing".
Not all of which involve lettering a large fleet of equipment for a fictional roadname, or in Kevins case it involves lettering EVERY piece of equipment for fictional roadnames.
You can model the B&O, and stay reasonably accurate in the models you buy (avoiding things like old Athearn PA1's lettered B&O since the B&O never had any) but at same time saying this is "close enough" for a 1954 piggyback car:
Because, at 270 feet away (3 foot HO viewing distance) it captures the look pretty well.
And you can build a layout that captures the feel of Appalachia, or the Ohio Valley, or Western/Central Maryland with going OCD trying to model specific places or track arrangements. And you can use real town names or not.
And you can do all this without obsessing over which locos worked which sub-divisions, on exactly which day in 1954. Or without worring about exactly when which loco got repainted into which one of the three different paint schemes they had on various locos in a just a few year time span.
Most people, even lots of "serious modelers", don't know all this about every railroad and every era. In fact nobody knows everything about every railroad.
I know a lot about railroading east of the Mississippi in the 40's and 50's, and a fair amount about 1890 into the 40's. But as you expand the "search" geographicly, or forward in time, I get dumber and dumber. I admit it. The southwest in 2020, I'm clueless.....
So freelancing, or protolancing, can be a lot of different stuff to a lot of different people.
I respect those who are dedicated to building accurate layouts, I great many of my modeling friends and aquaintances are such modelers, and many are not.
The biggest single problem I see with being TOO picky, is limiting yourself to modeling subjects for which models and info are available.
My modeling goals involve a broad "overview" of the railroads and region I model, not a narrow up close micro view.
And I do like painting and decaling models......
The very happy proto/freelancer, still happy with all the models I have ever bought. So after 55 years, the cost of the hobby is not much of an issue for me.
Painting is not an issue for me. Since most steamers were black, I can either go with undecorated or remove the lettering for other railroads and apply the decals. With the diesels, I settled on a basic black scheme with gold lettering. I've never learned how to use an airbrush so I just use basic flat black rattle can paint. Decaling is not my strong suit either but when you are applying white or gold lettering on a black finish, it's easy to achieve a good enough look.
A few of my diesels are relettered black and gold D&RGW locos which have a little gold trim and safety stripes in addition to the gold decal lettering. I envision my free lanced railroad to have just begun the process of dieselization a few years early so the diesel fleet is a small number of first generation diesels bought second hand from other railroads. SW7s, RS1s, RS3s, GP7s and F3s. It's all good enough.
As early as the mid 50's, "dipped" paint schemes were starting to be the norm in the east.