Hi folks,
First, I hope this thread isn't breaking any rules. If so, I'm sure the Moderators will address the issue.
I want to buy a steam engine to push my rotary snow plow. I'm not looking for anything high end, and I'm reluctant to get into brass despite the nice detailing. I need something that would reasonably have been used in 1900, and my knowledge with regard to dating steam locomotives is precisely zero!
I already have a 4-6-0 which will be part of the consist. It is being backdated to resemble a Grand Trunk locomotive that was used in Ontario, I believe in the early 1900s.
I have found three apparently low priced locomotives on eBay and I would like to ask your opinions of them. I don't know exactly when these locomotives were produced but obviously the last two are not recent.
The first is a Bachman Spectrum 2-8-0 item #11410. It is new. Current bid is $70.00 USD.
The second is an IHC 2-6-0. It is slightly used. The 'Buy It Now' price is $119.00 USD.
The third is a Mehano 2-6-0. To my untrained eye it looks identical to the IHC unit. It has been weathered and is showing signs of wear but it operates. The 'Buy It Now' price is $62.31 USD.
Are these decent values? Perhaps more importantly, are they too new to fit the 1900 time frame? (I'm guessing they are). If so, can I backdate them by changing the headlights and other bits? I will be adding Loksound V5s.
If you have any suggestions for what would be suitable, please let me know.
Thanks,
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
The 3rd loco you posted is similar to Southern Pacific M-8. There was no info on the website I go to for SP info regarding when they were built, but the M-9 were built aroung 1916
The M-2s were built in 1899. They have a much straighter boiler, not as conical, so I'd venture an educated guess the IHC is a bit modern for 1900. But that is a guess, perhaps other roads may have had similar locos around that time.
They run nicely, but are on the light side for pulling power. how much rolling resistance your snow plow has would be a factor.
The price is about what I'd expect to see them at. Dan
Dave, those last two locos are Moguls... 2-6-0s rather than 10 Wheelers (4-6-0s).
The IHC Mogul that I have was bought new, quite some time ago, for fifteen bucks....
Here it is, with the original oil tender converted to a coal tender, but otherwise pretty-much original...
It was a decent runner, but I eventually re-motored it with an only slightly better motor, then added a decent amount of weight to it, balanced at the mid-point of the drivers,It's a surprisingly decent puller.Here's its current state, somewhat different then the original oil-burner, and with a more modern cab, also from a Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0...
That supposed Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 certainly doesn't look like a Bachmann to me - the cab is rather different than the eight that I have, and the tender is quite a bit larger, too.I've modified the tenders of mine somewhat, and changed a few details on the loco, but it's fairly close to original, other than the paint job, and the fact that it's quite a bit heavier than original, too...
If you want an older-looking locomotive, I'd suggest Bachmann's 10 Wheeler, which has slide valves and a shallower curvature on the cab roof, similar to many older locos.Here's one of my original ones...
...with slide valves, an older-style cab and domes, with lots of windows and a shallow curve of the roof. These have cast metal bodies.
I decided that they were too old-looking for my late '30s layout, so re-worked them somewhat...
The "new" boilers (also cast metal) are from Varney ('50s era), while the original Varney cabs were relace with ones from Bachmann's 2-8-0s. I also shortened and narrowed the tenders, and added pretty-well all of the details on the locos. They also got the extra weight upgrade, and are decent pullers, too.
Wayne
Hi Dave. The second IHC is weathered and appears to be in good condition. Flanges appears deeper than the first one, however. I would consider that second one. Prices for these Mehanos are high on the used market...
Simon
doctorwayneDave, those last two locos are Moguls... 2-6-0s rather than 10 Wheelers (4-6-0s).
Hi Wayne,
I guess if I had taken the time to study them a bit more I would have realized that I was wrong. I think I had my own 4-6-0 stuck in my wee brain.
I have corrected my post.
The 2-8-0 listing on eBay shows a Bachmann Spectrum manual and related paperwork so I guess it is what the seller says it is.
Southgate 2They run nicely, but are on the light side for pulling power. how much rolling resistance your snow plow has would be a factor.
Hi Southgate 2,
The plow should not have much rolling resistance. There will be power pickups on all wheels. I am using NWSL's wheel wipers.
There will be two locomotives pushing the plow. I'm following the Cumbres and Toltec example. The layout is flat so I can't see there being much of a load on either engine.
hon30critter doctorwayne Dave, those last two locos are Moguls... 2-6-0s rather than 10 Wheelers (4-6-0s). Hi Wayne, I guess if I had taken the time to study them a bit more I would have realized that I was wrong. I think I had my own 4-6-0 stuck in my wee brain. I have corrected my post. The 2-8-0 listing on eBay shows a Bachmann Spectrum manual and related paperwork so I guess it is what the seller says it is. Thanks, Dave
doctorwayne Dave, those last two locos are Moguls... 2-6-0s rather than 10 Wheelers (4-6-0s).
The 2-8-0 is a Bachmann, but it appears to have a different Bachmann tender.
That looks like the long USRA tender Bachmann used behind the 4-8-2, 2-6-6-2, 2-8-2, 4-6-2 and 2-10-2.
It appears to be this tender:
Two things to note, for that tender to work on the 2-8-0, the wiring needs to be changed. The 2-8-0 has the male plugs on the loco wires, the engines that came with the long tender have the male plugs on wires coming out of the tender. And pretty sure the pin assingments are different.
And my picture shows Commonwealth high speed trucks, Bachmann included those and the Andrews tender trucks shown in with this loco.
I have about 20 of these tenders behind all sorts of locos, BLI 2-8-2's, BLI 4-6-2, as well as a number Bachmann locos.
Sheldon
EDIT - looking even closer, it appears that the original shorter tender frame simply has the long tender shell installed, creating a long overhang in the rear. I would stay away.
The Spectrum 2-8-0 is an excellent loco. I have three of them. I have no experience with the others you asked about. You didn't say if these were DC or DCC locos which would affect the value. In either case $70 for a new DC Spectrum 2-8-0 is an excellent price. It will likely get bid up higher and you will have to decide at what point it is still a value buy.
I have both the Spectrum 2-8-0 and the IHC/Mehano 2-6-0. Both of them have been very reliable runners for me. Aside from a little fresh oil when needed, they've never needed any maintenance.
Both will work fine for the year 1900. The 2-6-0 would have been a more common design, but the 2-8-0 as modeled by Bachmann did start to appear right around that time.
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Dave,
I have the Spectrum loco and it is a large consolidation and has a modern look to it. I had a BMann Decapod that is small and while it is WWI it looked a lot older than the connie. Maybe you could find one.
I have owned 4 Mehano locos and they all ran very well. I put DCC in 2 of them and it was an easy conversion.
CN Charlie
The trouble with what you ask is that every engine is different, even on diesels. I boufgt 3 Bachmann S4's, two run flawlessly and one was returned after many manufacture trys at fixing. Same with the spectrum steam I have or in some cases had. Only ones I have had where every one work well are the Proto 2000's steam by Lifelike and that includes friends. That being said if you are double heading the Mehanos would be fine. If you are willing to bide your time you can find them at a decent price in DC as the market is going DCC, seen brass lately for a song even at buy it now prices, very tempting but I would never run it.
rrebellseen brass lately for a song even at buy it now prices, very tempting but I would never run it.
I've been purchasing used/NOS brass and less plastic the past few years because I was really interested in acquiring (and running) some unique prototype locomotives on my next NYC-based layout. The steamers have all run smoothly - especially at low speed. And I've had fun converting them to DCC. I did send in a couple for minor repair work before do that.
If I purchase a brass locomotive, my full intention is to run it rather than have it sit on a shelf in a display case.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Man, I remember only 3 years ago I've buy Bachmann 2-8-0s en-masse for no more than $50 per engine. IHC eninges were like $40-50 tops.
These days, $70 is reasonable.
IHC engines these days, $70 is probably the most I'd pay.
In general, a good price bracket is going to ebay and looking through sold listings to see how often they sell for cheap.
Im patient though, and cheap :)
Charles
Edit: truth of it is, there's still many deals to be had. If youre patient, you can still get these engines under $50.
There were over a dozen that SOLD for under 50 in the past few months.
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Thanks everyone! Your input has been very helpful.
I haven't made a decision yet. The 2-8-0 is likely out of the picture because the shipping costs are too high.
Cheers!!
I have made my decision!
I decided to get off of eBay and have a look at Trainworld. They had a Bachman Spectrum 4-6-0 DC locomotive for $139.00 USD! EBay was asking $240.00+ USD for the same thing. The Trainworld shipping costs are a bit on the high side, and I will have to pay duty, but the price is reasonable IMHO.
Good choice Dave!
ATLANTIC CENTRALGood choice Dave!
Thanks Sheldon,
When I first saw the price I couldn't believe it!
I never thought that I would be buying more steam locomotives but I have proved myself wrong. Last December I bought a Bowser 4-4-2 kit because I got all inspired watching Darth's assembly videos. I haven't started the kit yet.
Now I have added another steamer to my roster, and I like this one very much. Something appeals to me about the earlier steamers. I just love the look of Grand Trunk #320:
Yeah a lot of people think steam is becoming less popular because so little still runs the 1-1 rails but steam runs all the time in movies and TV shows both in the past and now.
Dave, don't forget that Mehano 2-6-0 is the one in the President's Choice 2nd set. Maybe you can find one for a good price.
Jim
You'll want the four-wheel lead truck for plow work, even if it does take some weight off the drivers: the substantial buff force plus hunting with high steam mass flow... and flange-lifting due to ice and packed snow... being things that ancient designs of Bissel won't do at all well.
And few railroads will be buying brand-new 1904 locomotives to push it, no matter how new and amazing the Ideal Plow itself might be... depends on how badly your railroad values reliable snow removal.