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How vendors lose sales Locked

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How vendors lose sales
Posted by John-NYBW on Sunday, March 13, 2022 8:50 AM

I misplaced my MicroMark truck tuner several months ago. I put off buying a replacement hoping it would turn up but I've reached the point where I have several pieces of new rolling stock that need it. MicroMark has a minimum shipping charge of $9.95 which seems exorbitant when it is almost half the cost of an item. A week ago I bought an item that I needed to have from another vendor with the same $9.95 minimum shipping charge which was almost 4 times the price of the item. I bit the bullet because I needed the item but vowed never to buy from that company again. I was about to do the same with the truck tuner but before I did, I decided to check ebay and Amazon to see if I could get a better deal. I found an ebay seller offering what looked to be the same truck tuner as MicroMark plus a second smaller tuner for less than MicroMark charged for the one AND offered free shipping. It was a no brainer to buy from that vendor. 

Had MicroMark not charged such a high shipping cost, I would never have even looked at ebay so their shipping charge cost them this sale. All vendors, whether online or brick and mortar, charge for shipping. With brick and mortar stores, the shipping charge is factored into the price of the item. I have an Amazon Prime membership. This doesn't give me free shipping. It means I pay a flat rate for shippiing for an entire year no matter how much I buy from them. I don't have to pay shipping on each individual purchase which makes me more inclined to buy from them rather than make a trip to a brick and mortar store. When I shop on ebay, I always check the shipping charge and add that into either the asking price or the bid price to figure what an item is going to actually cost me. In this recent purchase, there was no additional shipping charge. The vendor had factored his shipping cost into his asking price for the item. I ended up saving about $13 from what I would have paid MicroMark for a like item and got a second smaller tuner on top of it. Another vendor was offering the MicroMark tuner for $23.99 including shipping which is only about a dollar more than MicroMark charges without the shipping added in. It seems to me a dollar for shipping seems a reasonable charge for such a small item.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, March 13, 2022 9:43 AM

John, 

When a brick and mortar store buys stuff, products come in boxes containing many items, from a distributor or manufacturer, and the incoming shipping cost per item is VERY low.

Back in the day, when lots of regional distributors sold to local hobby shops, many of those distrubutors had their own delivery trucks and offered free delivery for orders over a specific amount.

The brick and mortar store has no outgoing shipping cost if you pick the item up in the store.......

A $23 item likely costs the retailer $14. How exactly are they supposed to ship that to you for free and make money at current postal/UPS rates after factoring in packing supplies and labor?

It takes considerably more labor to pack and ship one small item like that than to sell it to you "in store" or pack up a large order and send it to you.

On Ebay, you never know how the seller came to have the merchandise, or why he is selling it. So his costs may not be "conventional" and he may be making all he needs to make - which may be nothing.

Amazon has a complex deal with vendors - and much that comes directly from AMAZON warehouses is sold at VERY small profit margins, like Walmart, because with their volume they make it up elsewhere. They are busy getting you to always shop there.

MicroMark is a little bitty company compared to AMAZON - they can't do that.

Buy from whomever suits you, but you are wrong if you think they are "ripping you off" on the minimum shipping cost.

They likely still don't make a fair markup selling a single truck turner with the $9.95 shipping. Their hope is you will place larger orders that they can fill efficiently and the shipping charges will be a much smaller percentage of the cost.

Even for retailers who are now buying most hobby products direct from the manufacturers, margins are slim. 

Nobody is getting rich selling model trains.

My comments come from 10 years experiance working in a hobby shop, half of that managing a train department.

Sheldon 

    

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, March 13, 2022 10:06 AM

So the product you bought on Ebay, made by DCCconcepts, who is British a company, only sells for L10.79 over there, or about $14.00 US.

If that guy bought a batch wholesale from them, waited for them to be shipped the cheapest way, and now he is selling them on Ebay for $23 he is just barely making a reasonable margin - for someone likely working out of his basement.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, March 13, 2022 10:16 AM

Shipping charges are the least of my problems.

I haven't had a LHS for better than 10 years now whereas I had 3 to choose from within a 10 to 15 minute drive from my home way back when. The closest one now it a minimum of 30 minutes away, up the Interstate and tolls to boot.

Another problem for me is trying to find what I want or need. This past Friday, I drove to Hobby Lobby, Michaels, and Hobbytown USA looking for modeling paint. Total joke. I will no longer bother with Hobby Lobby or Michaels. Hobbytown USA was poorly stocked. I wound up mixing various shades of the colors that I needed from half filled (or less) bottles of old Pollyscale paint.

Then, there is eBay. I am a big fan of eBay, but lately the prices that are being asked for locomotives and passenger cars are outrageous, not only New items but also Used items. I won't overpay and apparently neither will anyone else because those items just sit there day after day after day.

So, as I say, shipping charges are the least of my problems. Availability and pricing top my list of complaints.

Rich

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Posted by Ablebakercharlie on Sunday, March 13, 2022 10:37 AM

Sheldon really hit the nail on the head on this one.  Couldn't of said it better myself.

I will only add this please:

There is a joke in the restaurant business -  we lose money on every plate but we make up for it in volume.   

I have owned and operated a bakery cafe for the last 22 years and when we do ship product we have to pass those costs on to the customer.  We simply don't have the kind of relationship with USPS or UPS that giants like Amazon have.   If we ate the shipping our already small profit margin would virtually dissapear.

So I will kindly ask that you give brick and mortar's the benefit of the doubt and continue to patronize them as nothing would make Jeff B happier than you stopped and bought from him exclusively!

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

 

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, March 13, 2022 10:38 AM

richhotrain

Shipping charges are the least of my problems.

I haven't had a LHS for better than 10 years now whereas I had 3 to choose from within a 10 to 15 minute drive from my home way back when. The closest one now it a minimum of 30 minutes away, up the Interstate and tolls to boot.

Another problem for me is trying to find what I want or need. This past Friday, I drove to Hobby Lobby, Michaels, and Hobbytown USA looking for modeling paint. Total joke. I will no longer bother with Hobby Lobby or Michaels. Hobbytown USA was poorly stocked. I wound up mixing various shades of the colors that I needed from half filled (or less) bottles of old Pollyscale paint.

Then, there is eBay. I am a big fan of eBay, but lately the prices that are being asked for locomotives and passenger cars are outrageous, not only New items but also Used items. I won't overpay and apparently neither will anyone else because those items just sit there day after day after day.

So, as I say, shipping charges are the least of my problems. Availability and pricing top my list of complaints.

Rich

 

Don't know what kind of paint you want, but I use Scalecoat and buy it direct.

https://minutemanscalemodels.com/

For new locos and rolling stock, ToyTrainHeaven, Trainworld, ModelTrainStuff.

Used stuff - Ebay, but not as much any more.

Big train show here three or four times a year - picked up some goodies at the last one in Feb, next one in three weeks.

I order direct from manufacturers who sell that way (even Walthers for some things). Companies like Spring Mills Depot, Kadee, Campbell Scale Models, and a list of others.

We have a number of good train shops in this region, none of them "close" to me.

All are an hour or more, but are worth the drive once in a while. Most of them will ship, pick up the phone, no fancy web stores.

Pro Custom Hobbies

The Yankee Dabbler

Mainline Hobby Supply

Nicholas Smith Trains

Strasburg Train Shop (yes, where the real steam trains run every day)

Gilberts Hobby Shop (Gettysburg)

Star Hobby

Again, they are all an hour or more away, but have lots of good stuff. Some have really good prices, all are ok on prices.

Give some of them a call.

I could be wrong, but there is some data to suggest that the Mid Atlantic and New England have the highest concentration of modelers - more demand = more stores, even as the number of store declines.

When I was a young man, there where more than a dozen just in metro Baltimore.

Sheldon 

    

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Posted by John-NYBW on Sunday, March 13, 2022 10:48 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

MicroMark is a little bitty company compared to AMAZON - they can't do that.

Buy from whomever suits you, but you are wrong if you think they are "ripping you off" on the minimum shipping cost.

They likely still don't make a fair markup selling a single truck turner with the $9.95 shipping. Their hope is you will place larger orders that they can fill efficiently and the shipping charges will be a much smaller percentage of the cost.

Even for retailers who are now buying most hobby products direct from the manufacturers, margins are slim. 

 
I would wager that the vendor I bought the item from on ebay is much smaller than MicroMark yet he doesn't find it necessary to charge $9.95 to ship the item and presumably he is still making a profit.
 
I never accused MicroMark of ripping me off. Had I bought the item from them, it would have been a transaction at a price agreeable to both parties so no one would have been ripped off. The title of the thread is how vendors lose sales. In this case, MicroMark lost this sale because they choose to charge an exorbitant minimum shipping charge. If they think it is in their interest to discourage customers from buying single items, that is their choice. My choice is to buy those items elsewhere. 
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Posted by John-NYBW on Sunday, March 13, 2022 10:58 AM

richhotrain

Shipping charges are the least of my problems.

I haven't had a LHS for better than 10 years now whereas I had 3 to choose from within a 10 to 15 minute drive from my home way back when. The closest one now it a minimum of 30 minutes away, up the Interstate and tolls to boot.

Another problem for me is trying to find what I want or need. This past Friday, I drove to Hobby Lobby, Michaels, and Hobbytown USA looking for modeling paint. Total joke. I will no longer bother with Hobby Lobby or Michaels. Hobbytown USA was poorly stocked. I wound up mixing various shades of the colors that I needed from half filled (or less) bottles of old Pollyscale paint.

When I lived in Columbus, OH, I too had 3 hobby shops within a 10 minute drive. After I retired, I moved out of the city and now it's almost a mile drive to those same stores and one of them has cut way back on their model railroading selection. I still frequent my main hobby shop when I am in town but since the pandemic began, I find myself going into Columbus far less often. It would have to be an item I needed immediately and very badly before I would make a special drive into town. I figure even with my economy car it costs me at least 3 gallons of gas not to mention over an hour and a half of additional time out of my day. 

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, March 13, 2022 11:02 AM

John-NYBW

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL

MicroMark is a little bitty company compared to AMAZON - they can't do that.

Buy from whomever suits you, but you are wrong if you think they are "ripping you off" on the minimum shipping cost.

They likely still don't make a fair markup selling a single truck turner with the $9.95 shipping. Their hope is you will place larger orders that they can fill efficiently and the shipping charges will be a much smaller percentage of the cost.

Even for retailers who are now buying most hobby products direct from the manufacturers, margins are slim. 

 

 

 
I would wager that the vendor I bought the item from on ebay is much smaller than MicroMark yet he doesn't find it necessary to charge $9.95 to ship the item and presumably he is still making a profit.
 
I never accused MicroMark of ripping me off. Had I bought the item from them, it would have been a transaction at a price agreeable to both parties so no one would have been ripped off. The title of the thread is how vendors lose sales. In this case, MicroMark lost this sale because they choose to charge an exorbitant minimum shipping charge. If they think it is in their interest to discourage customers from buying buying single items, that is their choice. My choice is to buy those items elsewhere. 
 

I explained above in a separate response EXACTLY how that Ebay vendor could sell you that product for that price. I took a look at his little Ebay store. I assure you he is one guy, working out of his basement with ZERO overhead.

And that is fine, he deserves your business as much as the next guy.

But MicroMark cannot make money doing that.

I have been in business for myself most of my life. I happily walk away from people who think my prices are too high or who are not comfortable with how I do business (we do custom construction work, restore old houses, etc. and I do residential design work) most work we do is time and materials - few quoted fixed prices. Right now we are booked until fall........

Sheldon

    

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, March 13, 2022 11:13 AM

John-NYBW

 

 
richhotrain

Shipping charges are the least of my problems.

I haven't had a LHS for better than 10 years now whereas I had 3 to choose from within a 10 to 15 minute drive from my home way back when. The closest one now it a minimum of 30 minutes away, up the Interstate and tolls to boot.

Another problem for me is trying to find what I want or need. This past Friday, I drove to Hobby Lobby, Michaels, and Hobbytown USA looking for modeling paint. Total joke. I will no longer bother with Hobby Lobby or Michaels. Hobbytown USA was poorly stocked. I wound up mixing various shades of the colors that I needed from half filled (or less) bottles of old Pollyscale paint.

 

 

When I lived in Columbus, OH, I too had 3 hobby shops within a 10 minute drive. After I retired, I moved out of the city and now it's almost a mile drive to those same stores and one of them has cut way back on their model railroading selection. I still frequent my main hobby shop when I am in town but since the pandemic began, I find myself going into Columbus far less often. It would have to be an item I needed immediately and very badly before I would make a special drive into town. I figure even with my economy car it costs me at least 3 gallons of gas not to mention over an hour and a half of additional time out of my day. 

 

Perspective is an interesting thing.

I am 65, still working, and have lived in Maryland my whole life.

I have never lived "in a city", did spend some of my young adulthood in an old builtup suburb of Baltimore, but grew up in the "rural suburbs" south of Baltimore and now live in the really rural suburbs to the north between Baltimore and Phily.

Growing up, or the last 26 years up here, NOTHING is 10 minutes away. Well we do have two cute little towns, each 10-12 minutes away. But you are not going to find everything you need there.

Economy cars, not here, they don't meet our needs.

I drive this:

 

And the wife drives this:

 

If I may ask John, what did you do for a living before you retired?

Sheldon 

    

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Posted by John-NYBW on Sunday, March 13, 2022 11:16 AM

MicroMark's profit is not my concern. That is their concern. My concern is getting the best value for my money. I wouldn't have gotten that if I had bought this item from MicroMark. If another vendor can undercut them by 40%, I would be crazy to buy from MicroMark. All vendors are in competition with other vendors, large and small. MicroMark lost this sale because a little guy offered me better value for my money. This is just one sale out of millions each year. MicroMark has to decide if they can afford to lose the market share these small time vendors are taking from them.

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Sunday, March 13, 2022 11:26 AM

My old LHS was a Walthers dealer, in the catalog and the small-print pages of MR as well.  I could order through him from Walthers and get the catalog price or the monthly flyer sale price, with no shipping charge.  So, I could get lots of small stuff for quite cheap.  Yeah, he never made big profits, and when the landlord jacked up the rent, he retired.

I have ordered a few power supplies from China.  They are fine, basically the same as what I could get here from brick-and-mortar places for a third the price, and no shipping charge.  I figured the Chinese government was subsidizing the shipping.  When watching the progress of shipping, I saw the package arrive in L.A. about two days after I ordered it, and then take a week or more to get to my house via USPS.

And I can't be without my truck tuner. I have one in my workshop, and another upstairs at the layout.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, March 13, 2022 11:32 AM

John-NYBW

MicroMark's profit is not my concern. That is their concern. My concern is getting the best value for my money. I wouldn't have gotten that if I had bought this item from MicroMark. If another vendor can undercut them by 40%, I would be crazy to buy from MicroMark. All vendors are in competition with other vendors, large and small. MicroMark lost this sale because a little guy offered me better value for my money. This is just one sale out of millions each year. MicroMark has to decide if they can afford to lose the market share these small time vendors are taking from them.

 

Agreed, and the next time MicroMark might have the right item at the right price, even with the shipping.

It pays to shop around - everytime.

Point is, they did not loose business that was of any value to them. If they don't make money they will not be there to sell anyone anything. If they are truly charging too much others will put them out of business. But truth is, in the big picture, they are as competitive as anyone in this business.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by tstage on Sunday, March 13, 2022 11:34 AM

I purchase the majority of my decoders & DCC supplies from Litchfield Station; not only for the good prices but also because they only charge $4 for S&H.  To me that's very reasonable for a padded envelope that only weighs a few ounces.

Other well-known vendors may have comparable pricing but charge $10 for S&H for the same items.  And "MSRP Walthers" charges a flat $13 so I only purchase from them via my LHS when things are on sale.

Tom

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, March 13, 2022 12:13 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
 
richhotrain

Another problem for me is trying to find what I want or need. This past Friday, I drove to Hobby Lobby, Michaels, and Hobbytown USA looking for modeling paint. Total joke. I will no longer bother with Hobby Lobby or Michaels. Hobbytown USA was poorly stocked. I wound up mixing various shades of the colors that I needed from half filled (or less) bottles of old Pollyscale paint.

Rich 

Don't know what kind of paint you want, but I use Scalecoat and buy it direct.

https://minutemanscalemodels.com/

Sheldon  

I mainly paint structures, and I use a brush. Strictly acrylics. For years, I used only Pollyscale. Then, Testors dropped the entire line. So, I switched to Model Master, but then Testors dropped that entire line. After much research, I decided to try Vallejo, but the selection at Hobby Town USA was extremely limited. Isn't Scalecoat an enamel, intended only for spraying?

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, March 13, 2022 12:15 PM

tstage

I purchase the majority of my decoders & DCC supplies from Litchfield Station; not only for the good prices but also because they only charge $4 for S&H.  To me that's very reasonable for a padded envelope that only weighs a few ounces.

Other well-known vendors may have comparable pricing but charge $10 for S&H for the same items.  And "MSRP Walthers" charges a flat $13 so I only purchase from them via my LHS when things are on sale.

Tom 

It seems like the bigger retailers have fixed price shipping. Isn't Micro Mark basically a fixed charge shipper?

Rich

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Posted by wrench567 on Sunday, March 13, 2022 12:39 PM

My LHS is about a half hour away during a blinding snow storm and sometimes an hour and a half on a nice sunny day. Years ago they were fantastic and had a ton of MR stuff in all the major scales. The past few years it seems more models and RC stuff is encroaching in the MR isles. Don't get me wrong, they are still fantastic and will order in anything I want but at retail price. Track, ballast, and cork roadbed is still twenty percent off in stock and they keep that stuff stocked up.

  My online ordering for decoders and electronic stuff is either Lichfield station or Tonys. But lately Tonys has gotten rid of the minimum shipping and charges at least $12.95 just for a decoder and small things. Lichfield station last month shipped a partial order and sent the backordered item later with no additional shipping.

  My ebay purchases are hit or miss with the MR hobby. My RC helicopter parts have awesome prices and usually free shipping or just a couple bucks, but most of them come from overseas.

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Posted by tstage on Sunday, March 13, 2022 12:44 PM

richhotrain
tstage

I purchase the majority of my decoders & DCC supplies from Litchfield Station; not only for the good prices but also because they only charge $4 for S&H.  To me that's very reasonable for a padded envelope that only weighs a few ounces.

Other well-known vendors may have comparable pricing but charge $10 for S&H for the same items.  And "MSRP Walthers" charges a flat $13 so I only purchase from them via my LHS when things are on sale.

Tom

It seems like the bigger retailers have fixed price shipping. Isn't Micro Mark basically a fixed charge shipper?

Rich

I agree, Rich.  The fixed price shipping is a convenience for the vendor so they can ship the item/items quicker in the same-sized shipping container and don't have to spend time calculating shipping costs (time & money).  With that being the case, those located farthest from the vendor get a more fair deal on the S&H costs.

Tom

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Posted by tstage on Sunday, March 13, 2022 12:47 PM

wrench567
Lichfield station last month shipped a partial order and sent the backordered item later with no additional shipping.

Gotta love Litchfield Station. YesYes

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Posted by John-NYBW on Sunday, March 13, 2022 12:53 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

If I may ask John, what did you do for a living before you retired?

Sheldon 

 

I was a mainframe computer programmer. When I retired in 2001, I was fast becoming a dinosaur. Mainframes were giving way to networks and distributive processing. Fortunately we still had a few vital legacy systems that needed my skillset and knowledge of those systems. A few years after I retired, those legacy systems were outsourced and our shop got rid of the mainframe. I really haven't paid much attention to the business since I retired. I don't know how much is still being done by mainframes. I do know one thing. Not a single line of computer code I wrote during my 25 years in the business is still being executed. Obsolescence is a fact of life in computer systems.

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Posted by kasskaboose on Sunday, March 13, 2022 12:54 PM

One thing not mention, but is worth considering is supply and demand (cue the groans from Econ 101). A LHS needs to make money in a very competitive market. They have a ton of hands in their pockets, so the have to pass the cost to the consumers.  Larger places, Hobby Lobby, Michaels, etc. make more on just folks doing models. 

Returning to supply and demand, you have more demand for a widget and there's a limitied supply of it.  Prices are naturallly naturally higher than normal.  For example, I'm interested in tank cars.  Online they go for 30-40$ each!  Of course I'll get more from a swap to save on price and shipping costs. Just one example to consider.  One way ot offset flat shipping costs is purchase things you might need later.

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Posted by John-NYBW on Sunday, March 13, 2022 1:59 PM

kasskaboose

One way ot offset flat shipping costs is purchase things you might need later.

 

The keyword in that is MIGHT. I actually considered loading up an order with MicroMark to reduce the shipping cost per item. The problem with that is that anything I could buy from them now that I KNOW I'll need later I can get from Amazon and pay no additional shipping. I asked myself, how am I saving money by buying more things now that I could buy cheaper in the future if and when I need them. The obvious answer is I'm not. That might be the purpose of MicroMark's high minimum shipping cost. I'm sure there are people who will load up an order to buy a half dozen things they'll need in the future. What I have discovered is that is not necessary. I can buy from Amazon paying no additional shipping beyond my membership fee or buy on ebay from a vendor who charges little or not shipping costs. With their pricing policy on shipping, I don't see how MicroMark is going to be able to compete for my dollars.

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Posted by hjQi on Sunday, March 13, 2022 2:02 PM

I am willing to pay a reasonable shipping. I just bought a few decoders from Litchfield Station and they charge $4 for USPS first class and $6 for priority. $9.95 is too much...

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Posted by John-NYBW on Sunday, March 13, 2022 2:27 PM

hjQi

I am willing to pay a reasonable shipping. I just bought a few decoders from Litchfield Station and they charge $4 for USPS first class and $6 for priority. $9.95 is too much...

 

I agree completely, especially when I'm paying more for the shipping than the item. I don't care whether a company charges seperately for shipping or includes in the price of the item, what matters to me is the total cost of the item. When the shipping cost is disproportionate to the cost of an item, it makes it kind of tough to offer the item at a competitive cost, not when there are options like Amazon that offers flat rate shipping for an entire year's purchases or ebay vendors who offer reasonable shipping charges or not charges at all. 

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, March 13, 2022 2:30 PM

We sell homemade soap on line. The shipping increases with the quantity you buy.

We use the simple Post Office Prioeiry Mail boxes. We know how many bars of soap we can put in each size box. The Pay Pal software does the work. We charge shippin at exactly the rat that we have to pay to the post office. They give us free shipping boxes.

If the price looks high to you, that IS the price we have to pay to ship our items.

For a simple object like a left handed smoke shifter you could simply put it in a padded envelope ($1.00) and ship it foist class aat your local post office ($0.50) and charge the customer $1.50 postage and handling.

A bigger joint will have a computer system that will drop the item in a box, seal it and ship it via UPS or FedEx and what ever bulk rate that carrier gives them.

But no, they do not even sell left handed smoke shifters.

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Posted by John-NYBW on Sunday, March 13, 2022 2:37 PM

MisterBeasley

My old LHS was a Walthers dealer, in the catalog and the small-print pages of MR as well.  I could order through him from Walthers and get the catalog price or the monthly flyer sale price, with no shipping charge.  So, I could get lots of small stuff for quite cheap.  Yeah, he never made big profits, and when the landlord jacked up the rent, he retired.

I have ordered a few power supplies from China.  They are fine, basically the same as what I could get here from brick-and-mortar places for a third the price, and no shipping charge.  I figured the Chinese government was subsidizing the shipping.  When watching the progress of shipping, I saw the package arrive in L.A. about two days after I ordered it, and then take a week or more to get to my house via USPS.

And I can't be without my truck tuner. I have one in my workshop, and another upstairs at the layout.

 

I still order things from Walthers through my LHS and I don't have to pay the shipping charge either. Since they are replenishing stock from Walthers every week, it doesn't cost more to have special order items included with their weekly shipment. My LHS has been in business at their current location in a strip mall for over 40 years. Rarely when I go in am I the only one in the shop and there are always at least two people working the store. On weekends or before Christmas there will sometimes be a third so I'm guessing they are not struggling to stay in the black. 

If you get things from China 10 days after you ordered it, you are doing quite well. I've seen things take 5-6 weeks. If I order something from Amazon and the estimated delivery date is more than a week away, I know where it's coming from and I cancel it. 

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,481 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Sunday, March 13, 2022 3:09 PM

John-NYBW

 I was a mainframe computer programmer. When I retired in 2001, I was fast becoming a dinosaur. Mainframes were giving way to networks and distributive processing. Fortunately we still had a few vital legacy systems that needed my skillset and knowledge of those systems. A few years after I retired, those legacy systems were outsourced and our shop got rid of the mainframe. I really haven't paid much attention to the business since I retired. I don't know how much is still being done by mainframes. I do know one thing. Not a single line of computer code I wrote during my 25 years in the business is still being executed. Obsolescence is a fact of life in computer systems.

To my knowledge, at quite a few sites around the world, a small bit of me wakes up every 40 milliseconds, does its thing and goes back to sleep.  I retired 8 years ago, but my software lives on.

I don't know about the observatory I once worked at.  I wrote all the telescope control software, plus data acquisition and processing stuff.  It would be a huge job to replace it now, so if they're still using the equipment, including the equipment, they're still using the software.  My guess is, though, those old computers would have given up the ghost years ago and would not be repairable.

Of course, I always commented my code really well.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • 2,572 posts
Posted by John-NYBW on Sunday, March 13, 2022 3:24 PM

I remember we were developing a system that needed to do a date calculation and we had to allow for leap year. That's easy. Just figure out if the year is divisible by 4. But there is an exception. Years ending in 00 are not leap years. Except there is an exception to the exception. If the year is divisible by 400, it is a leap year. We were given a standard that said we had to calculate for the exception and the exception to the exception. I said that's dumb. We know 2000 is going to be a leap year, what do we care if this program fails in the year 2100. Another member of the team said jokingly (I think), "We don't want them tearing down our statues.". I lost the argument but didn't adhere to the standard in the code I wrote. If they are still executing that program in 2100, they deserve for it to go bad.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: 4610 Metre's North of the Fortyninth on the left coast of Canada
  • 9,352 posts
Posted by BATMAN on Sunday, March 13, 2022 3:37 PM

I always find these threads on cost interesting and would bet real money that I could tell which posters ever ran their own business by their comments. 

I don't care what a seller asks for something and I have no loyalty to any train store. Cost and/or convenience are the main factors. We live in a free market society that lets us have choices. We have the choice to make more money for the things we would like or we can use our time to whine about the cost. 

If you buy a beach ball for $5.00 is it cheaper to have it shipped inflated or uninflated?

What is the fuel cost alone to fly a 200lb man from Chicago to Sydney on a  Boeing 777LR? Before complaining about what you have to pay, finding out and understanding why is a learning experience which is better for everyone.

 

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, March 13, 2022 3:46 PM

John-NYBW

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

If I may ask John, what did you do for a living before you retired?

Sheldon 

 

 

 

I was a mainframe computer programmer. When I retired in 2001, I was fast becoming a dinosaur. Mainframes were giving way to networks and distributive processing. Fortunately we still had a few vital legacy systems that needed my skillset and knowledge of those systems. A few years after I retired, those legacy systems were outsourced and our shop got rid of the mainframe. I really haven't paid much attention to the business since I retired. I don't know how much is still being done by mainframes. I do know one thing. Not a single line of computer code I wrote during my 25 years in the business is still being executed. Obsolescence is a fact of life in computer systems.

 

So I'm going to guess you worked for some large corporation, possibly the same one for all or most of your career?

I only worked for two large corporations in my whole life - one for only 4 days, and the other just part time for about 18 months. That was enough for me.

I have never worked for any other company that was larger than about 30-40 employees total - imagine a car dealership or medium sized construction company.

At age 23 my father helped me start my first business, a MATCO TOOL dealership. Tool dealers like MATCO and SNAPON are independent businesses, sort of like a franchise but not exactly. You represent their product but you are more independent that things like McDonalds, etc.

I did that for 8 years. It spoiled me. 

I have a long list of different "careers" on my resume - when I did work for other people I seldom stayed more than a few years in one place.

At age 22 I was writing computer code for early industrial Programable Logic Controllers.

I have worked in most every trade in construction, from hands on to management.

I have been a real estate home inspector.

I have worked in various aspects of the automobile business.

Today I design houses, supervise and perform historic building restorations, and do custom remodeling.

I have owned or managed a number of retail businesses, I have invented products, produced them, and brought them to market - custom tractor parts, HiFi speakers.

I have no formal college degrees, but do have some formal education in Architecture, Engineering (electrical and mechanical), and Historic Presevation.

At only 20 I was managing the train deartment in a local hobby shop, at that point I already had over 6 years experience behind the counter and 10 years experiance in the hobby with some excellent adult mentors.

So the point is, I'm not bragging, I'm just saying I understand what these businesses are up against every day to survive.

In 1970, there was actually a lot more markup in model trains than there is today - and very few got rich then either.

That's why I never opened my own train store......

Sheldon

    

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