Need "expert" advice on weathering with an airbrush

[mondotrains]

Hello Guys,
I've tried weathering rolling stock and engines with chalks, dry-brushing with acryllic paint and most recently, with an air brush. I had always thought that the chalk and dry-brushing techniques were reserved for those of us who didn't own an airbrush. I wondered if some of you more experienced guys who weather with an airbrush combine it with the other techniques. What I'm trying to ask is weather you can achieve great weathering with JUST an airbrush, or do you need to use the other techniques additionally for creating drips and spills and rust on the rivets, etc.?

I've seen some beautifully weathered cars on Ebay for sale and couldn't determine from the picture or description if a combination of techniques was used. If it can be done with just an airbrush, then I have some additional practicing to do.

Thank you in advance for any help.
Mondo

[cefinkjr]

Far from expert advice but... I've tried weathering with an airbrush with uniformly poor results. I've seen results attained by others, though, that were absolutely beautiful.

My gut feel is that a combination of all appropriate media and methods would be best. I am currently using acrylics for fine details (e.g., points of rust, streaks of spilled oil, etc.) and chalks for larger, less distinct areas and to soften the points of detail. I like the results and I've had lots of compliments on them.

I'd add casein colors to the assortment you mention. They don't dry as fast as acrylics so you have a larger window in which you can decide you don't like something and back it off. Caseins are also more translucent so they don't tend to cover detail or lettering. So why am I using acrylics? Couldn't find a source for caseins until recently. I'll be replacing the acrylics with casein as I use up the acrylics.

Chuck

[dano99a]

I won't call myself an expert but I do weather rolling stock and locos as a side income to fund my hobby. To answer your question:

I use an airbru***hen I go back into it with a acrylic dry brushing some times I might hit it again with the air brush. It just depends on how much weathering is desired. If all your looking for is a lite dusting of road grime then that I say could be accomplished with just an airbrush but if your wanting a rust bucket then the dry brush and chalks do come in very handy.

8 times out of 10 I'll use at least 2 of the 3 mentioned above usually it's air brush and acrylic dry brushing.

After I'm done I'll give it a "LIGHT" coat of dull coat to seal it all on there nicely.

Hope this helps, happy weathering. [:)]

[cefinkjr]

dano:

If somebody's willing to pay you for weathering, that sounds pretty expert to me! [:)]

Or I've been weathering cars for the wrong guy. All I'm getting is the opportunity to help build his railroad and more cars to repair and weather. [}:)] (Do I sound like I'm complaining? I'm not really. I love it.) [:D]

[Anonymous]

I've used airbrushes for weathering quite a bit. Great for toning down the overall bright colors of a modern diesel or freight car, adding dusty shading to the undeframe, trucks and fuel tanks. I use Floquil paint for this because it dries nice and flat.

I've just weathered several On30 scale steam engines using Bragdon weathering chalks. These chalk powders have a dry adhesive mixed in with them, and they state that applying the chalks by rubbing sets the adhesive and it does not require to be oversprayed with Dullcoat. I haven't had to handle my steamers much, but I do like the effect of these chalks.

I rubbed down most of the semigloss black of the engine with Soot chalk, then added Dark and Medium Rust chalks as road dust and grime and not actual rust. These lighter colors also help bring out the fine details. Here's a shot of my Bachmann On30 Climax:



If you click on the photo you can see a larger version.

I haven't given up on using the airbrush, but see the Bragdon chalks as another medium I have available.

Bob Boudreau

[dano99a]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cefinkjr

dano:

If somebody's willing to pay you for weathering, that sounds pretty expert to me! [:)]

Or I've been weathering cars for the wrong guy. All I'm getting is the opportunity to help build his railroad and more cars to repair and weather. [}:)] (Do I sound like I'm complaining? I'm not really. I love it.) [:D]

If you say so, the term expert putts a lot of weight on ones shoulders, weight I don't want or need.

I figure if they are happy with it great. If not, then I strip the paint and give it back to em'. (though that has never happened) I have developed web sites and multimedia elements for CD -roms for 9 years and I still don't call myself and expert and I get paid a lot more to do that than paint models. ( both are equally as fun ) [:)]

[cefinkjr]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dano99a
If you say so, the term expert putts a lot of weight on ones shoulders, weight I don't want or need.

[^] I know exactly what you mean. I've retired after 30+ years in IT and having someone call me an expert always made me nervous. It generally meant somebody had a problem they hadn't been able to solve for months and I was expected to wave a magic wand to make their troubles go away.

Chuck

[cefinkjr]

Bob:

That Climax is really beautiful. [bow] Just how did you pose a prototype Climax against that blue background? [:)]

You On30 guys are really tempting me.

Chuck

[dano99a]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cefinkjr

QUOTE: Originally posted by dano99a
If you say so, the term expert putts a lot of weight on ones shoulders, weight I don't want or need.

[^] I know exactly what you mean. I've retired after 30+ years in IT and having someone call me an expert always made me nervous. It generally meant somebody had a problem they hadn't been able to solve for months and I was expected to wave a magic wand to make their troubles go away.

Chuck

you are sooooooo right. [:)]

[dano99a]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cefinkjr

Bob:

That Climax is really beautiful. [bow] Just how did you pose a prototype Climax against that blue background? [:)]

You On30 guys are really tempting me.

Chuck

DITTO

[mondotrains]

I'd like to thank Chuck, Dano and Bob for their very helpful hints.

Chuck: I know what you mean about being called an "expert" because I also retired from an IT career but with only 22 years. You mentioned "casein" colors. I've never heard of these. Are they paints that are available in craft stores?

Dano: Thanks for the tips and especially the reminder to overspray with a coat of Dullcoat.

Bob: That ON30 looks great. I checked my hobby table drawers and discovered that I have a set of those Bragdon weathering chalks and hadn't tried them yet. I'll add them to the "weathering" kit.

Thanks again guys and happy railroading. With the state of Connecticut covered with snow, today is a great day to try some of your ideas.

Regards,
Mondo

[cefinkjr]

Mondo:

Casein colors come in tubes like acrylics or oils. They are somehow based on milk (Merriam-Webster says casein is "a phosphoprotein of milk") which pretty much exhausts my technical knowledge of the subject. Twenty five years ago, you could have found them in any good art supply store but I gather that acrylics have replaced them in the art world.

Someone else on this forum recently pointed me to Mister Art at http://www.misterart.com/ as a source of caseins (at http://www.misterart.com/store/view/001/group_id/541/Shiva-Casein-Paints.htm). They appear to have all of the colors one would normally need for weathering. I haven't ordered from them yet -- waiting until I run out of acrylics -- but I intend to.

Chuck

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cefinkjr

Bob:
That Climax is really beautiful. [bow] Just how did you pose a prototype Climax against that blue background? [:)]
You On30 guys are really tempting me.
Chuck

Chuck & Others:

It was really a "quick and easy" way to take some shots rather than using my regular photoflood bulbs - I used my workbench magnifying lamp with the circular fluorescent bulb for lighting, almost right on top of the model. On the left side is a relflector - folded piece of cardboard with some crinkled up aluminum foil glued on. On the right is a piece of white cardboard as a reflector. Here's a look:



You can click on the photo to see it larger.

On30 IS tempting - go for it!

Bob Boudreau

[dano99a]

Thanks Bob!!!

[mondotrains]

Hi Chuck,
Thanks for the input on casein colors.

I just finished trying the Bragdon Enterprises chalk and it works great! However, I then gave the boxcar a light coat of Dullcoat and while it produces a flat finish, it has reduced the chalky, dusty appearance and put a kind of sheen over the model. I guess it is a catch-22 situation....use the Dullcoat and reduce the dustiness or leave it alone and the model will pick up fingerprints and the chalk will wipe off.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Thank you,
Mondo

[dano99a]

what brand of dull coat are you using?

the microscale stuff I don't like becuase of that very reason. however, the Testors dull coat will do the same if you put too much on. Unfortunatly, the amount I speak of is very minimal, your not really trying to give it a dull coat as much as covering it with something so that finger prints don't happen in the future. Or paint won't accidentally rubb-off.

What I do is get my weathering to where I like it. Then take my "lazy susan" out into the garage, put loco on the "LS" the hold the can back about 3 - 4 and spray with big sweeping movements while turning the "LS"

1 coat is all, and it is usally a very light one. Unfortunatly there is no exact measurement to this, just try and try again if you end up with a sheen (as I have too many times) I will put a few drops of white and mix it with 1 or 2 drops of black then give the whole thing a VERY LIGHT once-over. And that will usually knock the sheen down so that it's not noticed and of couse brings back that dull chalky look.

Hope this helps you out.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mondotrains
[I just finished trying the Bragdon Enterprises chalk and it works great! However, I then gave the boxcar a light coat of Dullcoat and while it produces a flat finish, it has reduced the chalky, dusty appearance and put a kind of sheen over the model. I guess it is a catch-22 situation....use the Dullcoat and reduce the dustiness or leave it alone and the model will pick up fingerprints and the chalk will wipe off.

Do you have the instruction sheet that came with the Bragdon chalks? At the very end of mine it says in caps "NO OVER-SPRAY SEALER IS NECESSSARY". That's the biggest advantage of their chalks - the built in powdered adhesive is supposed to keep the chalk powder on without overspray of Dullcoat.

The instructions also say to rub the chalks into the surface, as the friction activates the built in dry adhesive; the more you rub the stronger the bond.

Bob Boudreau

[mondotrains]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FundyNorthern

QUOTE: Originally posted by mondotrains
[I just finished trying the Bragdon Enterprises chalk and it works great! However, I then gave the boxcar a light coat of Dullcoat and while it produces a flat finish, it has reduced the chalky, dusty appearance and put a kind of sheen over the model. I guess it is a catch-22 situation....use the Dullcoat and reduce the dustiness or leave it alone and the model will pick up fingerprints and the chalk will wipe off.

Do you have the instruction sheet that came with the Bragdon chalks? At the very end of mine it says in caps "NO OVER-SPRAY SEALER IS NECESSSARY". That's the biggest advantage of their chalks - the built in powdered adhesive is supposed to keep the chalk powder on without overspray of Dullcoat.

The instructions also say to rub the chalks into the surface, as the friction activates the built in dry adhesive; the more you rub the stronger the bond.

Bob Boudreau

Bob,
Your point is well taken! I also read in their instructions that if you're going to handle the item, a spray of fixative is necessary so I guess I thought the chalk would show fingerprints and went ahead and sprayed it. I'll try the chalks without Dullcoat and just not handle the model other than from the bottom.

Thank you,
Mondo

[cefinkjr]

Mondo:

I overspray conventional pastels that I've ground myself but I haven't been doing that with the Bragdon chalks. Yeah, a bit will come off on your fingers but I haven't noticed fingerprint problems.

I have used a 'pre-spray' though. If the model was finished with a gloss or even semi-gloss paint, spraying it very lightly gives the Bragdon chalks something to hold on to.

In both cases, I use Krylon Matte Finish. For one thing, I'm told it's cheaper. Secondly, it's more widely available (WalMart carries it in this area). And, finally, I like the results better than what I've seen with the others.

ALL:

Any solutions to the fact that the Bragdon powders adhere differently (better) to decals than to most paints? I've noticed this problem with other weathering media too.[banghead]

Bob:

Your photography setup is almost identical to what I had set up on my work table just half an hour ago! The major difference is that I was shooting with a very old 35mm SLR so I'll have to wait a few days to see my results. (A few days because I'm a procrastinator...the first few frames of this roll were taken on a cruise to Alaska last June. [:p] )

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:
Bob:

Your photography setup is almost identical to what I had set up on my work table just half an hour ago! The major difference is that I was shooting with a very old 35mm SLR so I'll have to wait a few days to see my results. (A few days because I'm a procrastinator...the first few frames of this roll were taken on a cruise to Alaska last June. [:p] )

I have a small table in an adjoining room where I normally take my photos, using photofloods. But the shots of the weathered Climax were intended to be just quickies and I did not bother to use the other room. I was quite pleased with the way the single flurorescent lamp lighted the model.

Hey! I was on a cruise to Alaska last June too! My wife and I left from Seattle on June 27th, returned on July 4th and stayed for the NMRA convention there. We were on the MS Amsterdam, had a great time! I used two small point and shoot film cameras on that trip, as I did not want to haul my larger digital camera around . One camera was 35mm, and the other was a Canon Elph APS model - I was able to carry them in their cases atached to my belt, one reason for taking them. I shot the APS film using the panoramic mode most of the time, giving me large 4" by 10" prints - especially impressive when shooting the glacier at the upper end of Glacier Bay!

Bob Boudreau

[cefinkjr]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FundyNorthern
I was on a cruise to Alaska last June too! My wife and I left from Seattle on June 27th, returned on July 4th and stayed for the NMRA convention there.

Good planning and a more understanding wife. We (with 3 other couples) were on the MS Norwegian Star leaving Seattle on June 6. Instead of the NMRA convention, I settled for a visit to the museum/club layout in Tacoma. It is beautiful.

Chuck

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:
Good planning and a more understanding wife. We (with 3 other couples) were on the MS Norwegian Star leaving Seattle on June 6. Instead of the NMRA convention, I settled for a visit to the museum/club layout in Tacoma. It is beautiful.

I got to the museum layout on one of the tours - awesome!

Bob Boudreau

[PennsyHoosier]

Thanks for the pointers on this thread. Extremely helpful.