I have gotten the thing running but it is erratic. It seems to be the rear truck this time and because it seems to lean forward and not level. The rear axel doesnt always make contact with the track. I notice that the wheels flanges are shallow for lack of a better term sand I have a difficult time getting the wheels on my code 100 track. is this typical for old brass locos? How best to get all my rear truck wheels on the track?
Bruce
Well that's progress. The trucks hold together with screws. Remove the truck and make sure they are tight enough to hold the truck straight. Do not overtighten. I suspect this was the cause of your short through the wipers.
Simon
Hey Guys
Not sure what I did. It ran back and forth on my track then started balking. sparks are coming from the rear truck now. The wire from the front truck came loose from the motor and I left it that way. Simon you said to flip it over over and there should be a tab to solder a wire to the motor but I am not seeing any tab. If I knew where to hook up wire I would disconnect the rear wiper. You also said connect another wire to frame, I assume the third wire that I connected to the frame would serve that purpose?
Ok, so here is a view of the rear truck. The truck is isolated by a plastic bolster, and power is routed by a wire, that is visible on the right side of the screw that holds the truck:
shay back on Flickr
Here is the view of the front truck. You can see that there is the same tab: it looks like a little ring on the right side of the truck, next to the screw that holds the truck. So, you can solder a wire there, or anywhere else on the frame.
shay front on Flickr
My trucks aren't like yours. The screw that holds the truck in place is on one side of the bracket and the wipers are held in place by a screw on the other side of the bracket. There is no tab on mine like on yours. I look at the wipers and wonder if they were homemade. Will try to figure out how to change my trucks to be like yours
Wipers are definitely something you want, and trying to change your trucks to match the ones on mine might not be a good idea. Can you post a picture?
SNJROY and Lastspikemike
I'm going to put this aside until next week sometime. I've been obsessing over this for several days now and I need to get away for awhile. Thanks for sticking with me and helping me out with your info. I'll go back to it later on next week.
Fair enough. I think you made good progress.
Update on my shay-It is running and runs very well now. My next issue I need help on is it running thru turnouts. I have a small switching layout it will run on and as it enters a turnout it stalls as it goes through. I have to nudge it and it will continue on. However it seems to be able to back out of the siding with more success. I have Atlas code 100 track with the standard snap turnouts. Do I need to do something with them or change them out and if so what brand. Or possibly is this a constant problem with brass shays?
Thanks
Well, nice that it is running well. But why are you keeping what you fixed a secret?
actually I didn't fix it, I took it to my LHS where their fix it person was familiar with brass locos. The front truck had a short fixed I understand by a nylon screw and washer did the trick
NYVTRROr possibly is this a constant problem with brass shays?
I have a PFM HOn3 Shay. I managed to tune it up so it ran rather well, however it still would often stall over tunrouts because it's a light-footed little beast. I'd converted it to DCC, so added a keep-alive and that fixed things so it generally will barge on through now.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I'm glad you got your Shay working again. I'm a bit intrigued by the fix, I must admit. In its original state, I doubt there were any nylon screws. But I'm not well positioned to criticize, I have a ton of "work-arounds" on my layout... Mike's solution (keep-alive decoder) is an interesting option. In fact, I might just do that for one of my Shays .
I'm finding if the front truck goes into the turnout it tends to stall while going thru. If I back it in with the rear truck it tends not to stall and either front or rear truck going full blast it does not stall. Since I finally have the loco running I don't want to fiddle with it so I am still wondering if there is something I can do with the turnouts?
Add power, in DC you can do it with a toggle switch.
rrebell Add power, in DC you can do it with a toggle switch.
Just to be clear rrebell, are you referring to the points in the turnout?
NYVTRR I'm finding if the front truck goes into the turnout it tends to stall while going thru. If I back it in with the rear truck it tends not to stall and either front or rear truck going full blast it does not stall. Since I finally have the loco running I don't want to fiddle with it so I am still wondering if there is something I can do with the turnouts?
I don't use Atlas turnouts anymore, but if memory serves, the points get power through physical contact against the rail it is pressed against. You need to keep these contact points clean. I would check the voltage on each part of the turnout to make sure it makes good contact with the rest of the layout.
If you are using a long turnout, the longer frog does create problems with shorter locos, or locos with limited power pickup.
As for the loco, I find it strange that the loco stalls with the front truck on the frog given that the LHS staff isolated that truck. Or did I get that wrong?
As the loco goes front forward into the siding, with the rear trucks over or just starting to clear the frog, it will stall out. If the loco backs into the siding I have no issue. I hope that makes sense.
NYVTRR Simon As the loco goes front forward into the siding, with the rear trucks over or just starting to clear the frog, it will stall out. If the loco backs into the siding I have no issue. I hope that makes sense. Bruce
I believe the awipers are functional on both trucks. If I lift the rear truck off the track the front truck is still picking up power and vice versa
Have you checked the voltage on each component of the turnout? Your Shay should go through it with 8 wheel power pickup.
NYVTRRAs the loco goes front forward into the siding, with the rear trucks over or just starting to clear the frog, it will stall out. If the loco backs into the siding I have no issue.
Does the power supply indicate a short or an open when it fails to pass through the frog in the when going head in? That's a big clue to what the issue ultimately is.
A keep-alive will usually solve it if an open. If it's a short, then the keep-alive may or may not solve it.
An open indicates a lack of contact somewhere. A short indicates contact where it shouldn't occur. Most likely the issue occurs on the side that is passing over the frog, as that's where a gap or short is most likely to affect things.
It's not always the frog, though. Another issue can occur if the wheels don't have the correct clearance when passing through the points, causing them to bridge between the two rails and causing a short.
I think the loco is DC.
I have since learned that PFM sold some shays that were called the "flywheel Shay", which had eight-wheel power pickup. I suspect that's what you have. I read about that on another forum, which also showed a picture of the trucks. From what I saw, shorts seem highly probable due to the wiring... Installing a nylon screw probably solved one of the short issues, if you had one, but may have cut off one of the power sources. Maybe the front-right wheel... Lifting the trucks, one at a time, leaving the other on the track, is a good test to see if all wheels pick up power. If they do, then dirty track or poor track voltage on one of the turnout components are likely to be the problem.
After testing, I do have one wheel that is causing a short. However my LHS set me up with a local brass loco collector and I talked to him the other day. We are getting together next week and he will take a look at the loco and help me get this thing running again.
Is the short happening only when you go over the turnout? If that's the case, then the problem is probably related to the turnout, not the loco. Unless the wheels are out of gauge, or the wiper is hitting something when going over the turnout.
NYVTRR my LHS set me up with a local brass loco collector and I talked to him the other day. We are getting together next week and he will take a look at the loco and help me get this thing running again. Bruce
my LHS set me up with a local brass loco collector and I talked to him the other day. We are getting together next week and he will take a look at the loco and help me get this thing running again.
Yes, this is the way to go on this stuff. My local brass expert has helped me fix a couple of thorny problems that I would not have figured out on my own...
Good luck,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
A wheel on the front truck is the problem. Right now, as is, the loco is shorting out and sitting there. Using my meter I figured out which one. I put tape on the wheel and put on the track and it will run. My local expert without seeing it says he has an idea what is going on.