Overmod It ought to be relatively easy to troubleshoot what broke on a Robert 411. The parts and price list is here: https://robart.com/products/411102a-motor-assembly-100-240v
It ought to be relatively easy to troubleshoot what broke on a Robert 411. The parts and price list is here:
https://robart.com/products/411102a-motor-assembly-100-240v
Thanks for posting that. I know that I need a new motor, and from that parts list it will cost a third of the price of a new unit when I include shipping. I'm not sure if it is worth fixing now that I have a solution on hand.
I got the Robart 411 a few years before the multi-tool. If that was reversed and if I had figured out to use it as a shaker I wouldn't have gotten the Robart.
Rick
At Hudson River Heritage I used a vacuum pump to remove any entrained air, whether the paint had been 'shaken or stirred'. It's much the same procedure to remove air from RTV or mixed epoxy when casting.
Yeah, I was thinking of BBs as little alloy 'ball bearings' (which I think are a chrome-vanadium alloy). Would that react with model paint constituents?
BigDaddy Maybe it's a False Memory, but I thought a manufacturer recommended against a shaker because of bubble formation. Has anyone used ultrasonic cleaners to "stir" paint?
Maybe it's a False Memory, but I thought a manufacturer recommended against a shaker because of bubble formation.
Has anyone used ultrasonic cleaners to "stir" paint?
My Badger Model Flex paint would have hundreds of bubbles if using the Badger paint stirrer with good 1.50v batteries. So I just used almost depleted batteries.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
OvermodWhat happened to the old dodge of using a couple of BBs or small magnetic stir bar as an 'agitator'?
I urge against using BBs. I've had reactions from paints, even water based paints, when using metal (non-ferrous) agitators. BBs are cheap alloy steel and a thin copper plating that will quickly corrode. Brass isn't any better and I've had reactions even with stainless steel nuts. Perhaps monel (400 Nickel) would work OK and if the magnetic stir wand is Teflon® coated you might be OK if you can find one small enough to go into a 25 ml. jar.
In my experience the agitator doesn't help a bit if it is buried at the bottom of the jar with all the solids surrounding it. By the time you break it loose the paint is pretty much mixed anyway.
I quit using them years ago.
Regards, Ed
What happened to the old dodge of using a couple of BBs or small magnetic stir bar as an 'agitator'?
gmpullman I believe there are 3D printed adapters that will allow a paint jar to be attached to a Sawzall-type reciprocating saw.
I believe there are 3D printed adapters that will allow a paint jar to be attached to a Sawzall-type reciprocating saw.
I considered that too as well as the idea posted earlier in this thread about attaching a clamp to a sabre saw. The idea of using the multi-tool came as I was looking at the vortex mixers and remembered how fast the multi-tool ran, similar to the vortex. It is also quieter than my sabre saw.
Just goes to show there is more than one way to skin a cat.
My son got me one of those multitools a while back, a Bosch, I believe. It has been a very handy tool but I never thought of it as a paint shaker!
City_Bosch-cut by Edmund, on Flickr
Cheers, Ed
I haven't used the airbrush since starting this thread so I never figured out a replacement for the Robart shaker that died. Soon I will be doing some painting so it was time to revisit this.
I was about to buy one of the Vortex shakers but decided to try using something I already had before spending more money. Looking over the blades I had for the oscillating tool one looked promissing so I use a rubber band to attach an unopened bottle of paint that was separated to it.
It worked like a charm. After 30 seconds or so there was no sign of anything on the bottom of the jar. I didn't want to break the seal and open it to check so when I am ready to paint I'll do another jar and open it and if it didn't work I'll report back.
This is a tool that I don't use often but when I do it is very handy. This is another application for it and will increase that use. If anyone has one of these tools this is how I did it:
I use the same thing to mix my paint. I also bought a set of funnels with screens in the bottom, which works great. I keep a gallon ice cream tub with "wet water" in it on my work bench to drop the funnel into after pouring paint into my airbrush bottle. This makes cleaning the screens a snap.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
My Vortex Mixer showed up Saturday and I'm quite satisfied with its performance.
Paint_Vortex-Testors-pen by Edmund, on Flickr
It really shines for these paint pens that I don't use very often. About 15-20 seconds and they're good to go.
Paint_Vortex-Testors-ops by Edmund, on Flickr
I dug out a still sealed bottle of PollyScale and gave 'er a whirl:
Paint_Vortex-pollyscale by Edmund, on Flickr
Paint_Vortex-ops by Edmund, on Flickr
This one took about a full minute. I didn't open the bottle but looking through the glass everything looks well blended in there
Paint_Vortex by Edmund, on Flickr
Just another handy tool in the arsenal of modeling methods.
JDVass I have one of these and couldn't live without it. https://robart.com/collections/hobby-tools-paint-shakers/products/hobby-paint-shaker-electric-100-240v
I have one of these and couldn't live without it.
https://robart.com/collections/hobby-tools-paint-shakers/products/hobby-paint-shaker-electric-100-240v
That is the one that I was using that just died.
hbgatsf After using mine and seeing how it works I was thinking about just using some rubber bands to attach the paint bottles to an oscillating tool or a sabre saw. Has anyone tried that?
After using mine and seeing how it works I was thinking about just using some rubber bands to attach the paint bottles to an oscillating tool or a sabre saw.
Has anyone tried that?
gmpullman YMMV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMmMls-GYOI
YMMV:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMmMls-GYOI
Perfect. I didn't think of putting a clamp in the saw.
richhotrainOf course, the operative words in that video are "it's very nice and separated".
The video that the 'algorithm' served right after that one suggested epoxy gluing one of those screw-top vitamin bottles directly to an old saber-saw blade, with some of the obvious improvements then discussed (use two bottles on either side of the blade, with a dummy bottle in the other side for 'counterbalance'; put some wraps of tape around the assembly for reinforcement; use some sort of fill inside the bottle to prevent banging the cap off unexpectedly at high speed; etc. Using a larger 'enclosing' bottle rather than clamping at both ends might be more convenient for some types of bottle. It might also be usable with the clamp-on-a-stick approach (which I do consider pure genius as shown...THANKS AGAIN ED.)
I do see a sort of harmonic convergence between using vortex beads and those small BBs as agitators in hobby or dropper bottles (although I also see comments that they are not really necessary)
For those 1-percenters who have not seen this already, there is considerable cross-pollinating knowledge in the custom nail and 'wargamer' communities.
I learned more reading this thread 10 minutes than in a previous lifetime. There is at least one MR article or column discussion that could come out of just the discussion so far... of great importance as more and more aging paint becomes unobtanium.
As a question to the experienced in this community: does aeration of acrylic paints start cross-linking early to prematurely ruin them even with adequate water in solution?
gmpullman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMmMls-GYOI
Of course, the operative words in that video are "it's very nice and separated".
Rich
Alton Junction
gmpullman YMMV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMmMls-GYOI Good Luck, Ed
Good Luck, Ed
Thank you! I believe that you just saved me $90.
hbgatsf Deane Johnson I purchased about a month ago, the Vortex shaker that you linked to. Small footprint on my bench, plugged in all the time, no off/on switch, it just starts when you press the paint container on it. Love it. I had a bottle of stain, or something, that was about 35 years old unused. The content had hardened in the bottom with liquid still on top. As a test, I held it on the vortex shaker a few minutes and it completely mixed the product. I agree with the comment that shaking acrylics can be an issue with bubbles. I don't seem to have any problem with Vellejo, but I tried it with ModelFlex and it did create bubbles. I'm sold on the Vortex for it's convienience of use and it's effectivness in producing results. I was looking at Vortex shakers. You said you held the old bottle of stain on the shaker for a few minutes and it was fixed. With the Robart it would take as much as 20 minutes to loosen up an old bottle. I don't want to have to hold it in place for that long so I was trying to find a Vortex that you could attach the bottle and leave it. Any thoughts on that? Rick
Deane Johnson I purchased about a month ago, the Vortex shaker that you linked to. Small footprint on my bench, plugged in all the time, no off/on switch, it just starts when you press the paint container on it. Love it. I had a bottle of stain, or something, that was about 35 years old unused. The content had hardened in the bottom with liquid still on top. As a test, I held it on the vortex shaker a few minutes and it completely mixed the product. I agree with the comment that shaking acrylics can be an issue with bubbles. I don't seem to have any problem with Vellejo, but I tried it with ModelFlex and it did create bubbles. I'm sold on the Vortex for it's convienience of use and it's effectivness in producing results.
I purchased about a month ago, the Vortex shaker that you linked to. Small footprint on my bench, plugged in all the time, no off/on switch, it just starts when you press the paint container on it. Love it.
I had a bottle of stain, or something, that was about 35 years old unused. The content had hardened in the bottom with liquid still on top. As a test, I held it on the vortex shaker a few minutes and it completely mixed the product.
I agree with the comment that shaking acrylics can be an issue with bubbles. I don't seem to have any problem with Vellejo, but I tried it with ModelFlex and it did create bubbles.
I'm sold on the Vortex for it's convienience of use and it's effectivness in producing results.
I was looking at Vortex shakers. You said you held the old bottle of stain on the shaker for a few minutes and it was fixed. With the Robart it would take as much as 20 minutes to loosen up an old bottle. I don't want to have to hold it in place for that long so I was trying to find a Vortex that you could attach the bottle and leave it.
Any thoughts on that?
With my single try it didn't take more than a couple of minutes or so. I suspect that different types of paint might have a wide variance in required time and success likelyhood.
I doubt the Vortex concept does everything for everybody. I happened to find it is very nice for my usage, but there are different strokes for different folks, as they say.
I don't know if there's a Vortex type machine that accepts fastening the paint bottle in or not. Remember, the Vortex machine I have is primarily for the medical profession that's also adaptable for other tasks as well.
So far as the Micro-Mark powered stir device, I can assure you I'd have a mess on my hands using it. Interestingly, the review site that rated the Mini-Vortex #1 went on to rate the Micro-Mark type stirrer as #2. Everything else they reviewed was below those two. That review is why I decided to try it and felt I hit a home run for my goals.
gmpullmanYMMV:
That's pretty good Ed!
Who'd a thunck! The versatile jig saw!
Mike.
My You Tube
hbgatsf With my single try it didn't take more than a couple of minutes or so. I suspect that different types of paint might have a wide variance in required time and success likelyhood. I double the Vortex concept does everything for everybody. I happened to find it is very nice for my usage, but there are different strokes for different folks, as they say. I don't know if there's a Vortex type machine that accepts fastening the paint bottle in or not. Remember, the Vortex machine I have is primarily for the medical profession that's also adaptable for other tasks as well. Deane Johnson I purchased about a month ago, the Vortex shaker that you linked to. Small footprint on my bench, plugged in all the time, no off/on switch, it just starts when you press the paint container on it. Love it. I had a bottle of stain, or something, that was about 35 years old unused. The content had hardened in the bottom with liquid still on top. As a test, I held it on the vortex shaker a few minutes and it completely mixed the product. I agree with the comment that shaking acrylics can be an issue with bubbles. I don't seem to have any problem with Vellejo, but I tried it with ModelFlex and it did create bubbles. I'm sold on the Vortex for it's convienience of use and it's effectivness in producing results. I was looking at Vortex shakers. You said you held the old bottle of stain on the shaker for a few minutes and it was fixed. With the Robart it would take as much as 20 minutes to loosen up an old bottle. I don't want to have to hold it in place for that long so I was trying to find a Vortex that you could attach the bottle and leave it. Any thoughts on that? Rick
I double the Vortex concept does everything for everybody. I happened to find it is very nice for my usage, but there are different strokes for different folks, as they say.
Rick, so much depends upon the condition of the paint in an old bottle.
If there is settlement of solids to the bottom of the bottle with a clear liquid portion sitting above it, the paint is likely salvageable. Shaking such a bottle may well help, but you still will likely need to stir the shaken contents to achieve a fully useable mix. That's where the Micro-Mark paint mixer becomes the tool of choice for me - - no shaking required.
If there is no separation between paint at the bottom and clear liquid above it, the question becomes, is the paint dried and hard or moist and soft? If the answer is the former, it is not salvageable. But, if the answer is the latter, pour some thinner into the bottle and then use the Micro-Mark paint mixer.
I had a vast assortment of very old paint that had settled. I put them in a baking pan and put this style of massager in the pan and the paint was vibrated back to a very usable condition. It was noisy so I put it in a backroom out of earshot.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Be sure to clean the area where the Vortex will sit good before you place it. It's heavy with nice rubber feet, but if you set it in workbench dust, it'll want to move around with the vibration. I put mine in a cleaner spot about 2 or 3 weeks ago, have used it almost daily at least a little bit, and it hasn't move a bit in the clean area. My surface is Formica so it's nice and smooth.
gmpullman Deane Johnson I'm sold on the Vortex for it's convienience of use and it's effectivness in producing results. Thanks for the first-hand experience you offered. I just ordered one and it will be here by noon tomorrow.
Deane Johnson I'm sold on the Vortex for it's convienience of use and it's effectivness in producing results.
Thanks for the first-hand experience you offered. I just ordered one and it will be here by noon tomorrow.
So did I.
I also have the micro mark stirrer, which works but sometimes has problems getting all pigment out of the bottom corners. Hopefully the shaker will do that.
Paul
Deane JohnsonI'm sold on the Vortex for it's convienience of use and it's effectivness in producing results.
I occasionally rotate my bottles end-for-end thinking that will help keep the solids and carriers in solution but this is a futile effort at best. The Vortex mixer should prove to be a helpful addition.
hbgatsfAbout 5 years ago I got the Robart #411 and have used it successfully to get settled paints mixed up. It died today
I've got a pair that will be retired soon. You want 'em for parts you're welcome. I think I removed the battery setup from one and use a wall-wart to power the device.
hon30critterIIRC, Floquil is solvent based so you will have to use a solvent to clean it up.
When using Floquil, Scalecoat, or similar... I clean the tool with a quick spray of CRC Brake and Parts Cleaner.
It works like a charm, and nothing else to clean.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I still have several bottles of Floquil, including a couple dating from the '70s. If they start to thicken, I simply add some lacquer thinner, give 'em a good shaking, and they're ready to use.
Polly Scale generally has a good shelf-life (too bad that it didn't have a longer production life) as it was the best model paint I ever used. It was great for brushwork and airbrush, too. The only thinner I use for it is distilled water.
Wayne