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Straightening Locomotive Railing + Broken Deck Sill

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  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, February 6, 2022 9:22 PM

I knew you could do it TF!

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Track fiddler on Sunday, February 6, 2022 5:50 PM

selector

If you're at all like me, it still leaves you feeling a little sick, TF, but that will go away in time. 

I'm happy for you. Cool

 

Then I must be like you because I still feel a little sick.

I can stand up!

Wink

https://youtu.be/WDXCYBjoxTI

Guitars Often Say More Than Words.  Author Unknown?

 

Thanks Selector

 

Thanks Douglas ...Thanks Brent

 

 

TF

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Posted by BATMAN on Sunday, February 6, 2022 5:05 PM

Yes

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by selector on Sunday, February 6, 2022 4:55 PM

If you're at all like me, it still leaves you feeling a little sick, TF, but that will go away in time.  My three disasters, all with one misstep and grabbing at the rickety shelf, seem like a long-ago shrug now.  They all run just fine, and look good. 

I'm happy for you. Cool

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Posted by Doughless on Sunday, February 6, 2022 4:01 PM

That looks great.   Congrats.

- Douglas

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Posted by Track fiddler on Sunday, February 6, 2022 3:30 PM

About 45 minutes this afternoon and the Tamiya solvent worked like a Champion.

She's back in one piece and the only flaw worth posting a picture of is the last joint I put together before I fastened the deck sill and railing back onto the locomotive.

Short of perfect but a little black paint and some yellow on the railings.  I don't think anybody will ever know the difference.

 

Thanks for all your help gentlemanWink

 

 

TF

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Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, February 3, 2022 7:56 AM

I had an HO Kato dash 9 crash on the concrete floor, from about 50" high.  I gathered all the peices I could find, set it all in a box, kept gathering pieces as they appeared.

I took it all apart, the rear truck suffered the most damage,  I was able to carefully piece it all back together, and back in service.

I did order a new truck assembly from Kato, and when it arrived, I replaced the peiced together truck with the new one.  I think the new truck, at that time, was about $25.

N scale would be a challange for me, but I'm sure you can put this back together. Yes

Mike.

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Posted by Track fiddler on Thursday, February 3, 2022 7:01 AM

Good morning

Thanks for the vote of confidence in your replies after my DMIR Catastrophe yesterday.  I wasn't even contemplating repairing this thing until you guys chimed in.

The first thing I did after cooling off a while was check to see if anything was broken on the truck as Douglas pointed out would complicate repairs. 

The truck was fine so I held the contact strips down and twisted it back in from a 45° starting position and repositioned the strips.  It does run just as smoothly as before.

At that point, I was so flustered with disappointment I did what felt like a locomotive funeral putting all the broken parts in tupperware.  I even put one of Judy's best washcloths on the bottom of the casket so the broken parts we're comfortable and wouldn't rattle around in there.

I wrote down your information on the specialty adhesive and activator for Delrin plastic in case I need them for the repair or something else down the road. Some valuable information and I thank you for that Wayne.

As Douglas and Mike pointed out, styrene solvent may work for the repair on the sill.  With experience with that on bridges gives me a lot of hope.  Also Selectors comment on Mark Pruitt's success of fixing the Round House gave me some encouragement as well.  And your comment was correct Selector.  The words that came out of my mouth when this happened were the ones from my more filthy vocabularyPirate

Thanks for your vote of confidence as well Dave.  I'll be trying the solvent and glue recommendation stated here.  Also the glue section at Menards is almost overwhelming.  If a guy had a clue and only knew what all that glue can doLaugh

If all else fails, perhaps I can sell it on eBay NOS as Rich stated.  Or add it to my MR junkyard in case I need railings or other parts like Maxman said.

For now,  I'm still too disappointed about this avoidable accident.  I think I'll let things simmer another day or two before dealing with it.

 

Thank you for your supportWink

 

 

 

TF

 

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, February 2, 2022 7:21 PM

Track fiddler
SHE'S A GONER!  I was working on a bridge and have no idea now why I had my new model sitting too close to the edge.

Hi TF,

That's terrible!!CryingGrumpyBang HeadSuper Angry

I'm going to repeat what a couple of others have suggested. Give it a few days. Glue is good stuff.

Cheer up!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, February 2, 2022 5:09 PM

Doughless
f there are truck parts that are cracked or broken, then its pretty tough.

Both Loctite and LePage have bonding agents that will work on Delrin and other engineering-type plastics.  I couldn't find the Loctite version locally, but did find the Lepage one.

It's basically a ca, and a separate "activator", which comes in an applicator that ressembles a small marker pen. 

The procedure is to rub the applicator onto both surfaces to be joined (it seems to be colourless), then wait about 60 seconds for it to dry.  You then apply the ca to one of the surfaces to be joined, then bring them together.

The "activator" seems to have considerably more volume than the supplied ca, as I quickly ran out of the latter, but found that any ca can be used with the activator.
I'm uncertain as to the lifespan of the activator, as I've needed it on only a couple of occasions.

Wayne

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Posted by selector on Wednesday, February 2, 2022 4:54 PM

TF, take a deep breath.  Do you remember when Mark Pruitt did the same thing about 14 months ago...but to his large roundhouse?  We all advised him to get his seething under control, go for a walk, a long one, have a donut, and then come back with a determination to put it back together.  It took him a day or two, but then it became history, and you can do the same.

Give us close-up shots, several angles.  You'll get some good assessments and advice.  In two weeks, this will all be history.  Either that or look for a shell on eBay.

Hey, there must be some pretty good sales now that we're past the Silly Season!

PS- I imagine you'll want to repaint your walls and backdrop first, though.  They must look pretty bad after all the bad language.

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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, February 2, 2022 3:51 PM

I was thinking the same thing.  Looks fixable from the pics.  If there are truck parts that are cracked or broken, then its pretty tough.

The sill can be fixed with solvent.  It may be possible to use plastic strips to strengthn the joints, unseen on the bottom. 

If the sill is not used to hold the entore shell onto the frame, then there should not be a bunch of force on the newly bended joints.

- Douglas

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Posted by maxman on Wednesday, February 2, 2022 11:24 AM

Track fiddler

CryingCryingCryingCryingCryingCryingCrying

Well,  So much for fixing the railing!  It's a Dark Day at Fiddler's place.

SHE'S A GONER!  I was working on a bridge and have no idea now why I had my new model sitting too close to the edge.

I guess even padded carpet can be a rather destructive landing when the lid flips off.

This is my all-time most destructive locomotive fatality ever.  Even with all the pieces accounted for there ain't no fixing thisSad

 

 

Unhappy Track Fiddler in the house!

 

Look at the bright side.  Now you have a source of spare railings.

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, February 2, 2022 10:01 AM

Sell it on eBay as NOS.  Broken Heart

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Track fiddler on Wednesday, February 2, 2022 9:47 AM

CryingCryingCryingCryingCryingCryingCrying

Well,  So much for fixing the railing!  It's a Dark Day at Fiddler's place.

SHE'S A GONER!  I was working on a bridge and have no idea now why I had my new model sitting too close to the edge.

I guess even padded carpet can be a rather destructive landing when the lid flips off.

This is my all-time most destructive locomotive fatality ever.  Even with all the pieces accounted for there ain't no fixing thisSad

 

 

Unhappy Track Fiddler in the house!

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Posted by Track fiddler on Tuesday, February 1, 2022 6:26 PM

Thanks Selector.  Also for your help as wellWink

 

 

TF

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Posted by selector on Monday, January 31, 2022 5:04 PM

Very nice, TF, and I am happy to read, after so much discussion, that you found something that worked.  A good day, and you get to enjoy looking at your diesel as it should be.

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Posted by Track fiddler on Monday, January 31, 2022 9:35 AM

It took a few dips and application of the Q-tip before the new memory held its own but it worked Mike.

 

 

TF

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Posted by Track fiddler on Monday, January 31, 2022 9:15 AM

Warped railing update.

Before 

After

I put masking tape over the teeth on a small needle nose tip.  Put my model on a towel on the stove top.  Carefully held the railing with the needle nose.  Then stuck a Q Tip in water right after it boiled and held it on the source of the bend.  While hyper-extending the bend from the source and held it for a minute.

Got it.  A bit of yellow paint touch-up to do that didn't happen on the experimental railing but I think I can live with that.

 

Thanks for all the ideas and advice here gentleman as it was very helpful and appreciatedYes

 

 

 

TF

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Posted by Doughless on Saturday, January 29, 2022 9:40 AM

Track fiddler
And I'm liking Douglas's idea of covering up the top of the railing with weight leaving only the warp exposed to the heat.  I see FScotsman leans towards the hair dryer idea as well.

Just to be clear.  The idea is that once you weigh down the railing flat, its in the correct shape.  So you do not need to heat the plastic to the point that it becomes pliable...which would be near the metling point....but just enough heat to begin to release the tension that's causing the warp.

You could probably do that with a soldering iron held far enough away too.  One staunchion at a time.  Maybe an eyedropper of water too, but it would probably take multiple drops and be harder to control the overall heat.

You can actually unwarp delrin handrails by overbending them opposite the warp...stretching the plastic in the opposite direction so to speak.  And they will settle back to straight.  That's the only way I do it now, since I have newer vintage locos and its pretty easy to manipulate the newer plastics than handrails of some 15 to 20 years ago, IMO.  Some handrails are too brittle to take much overbending.

- Douglas

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, January 28, 2022 9:49 PM

Track fiddler
Thanks again for all the help gentleman

I also picked up a few good ideas from this thread.

Thanks everyone.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by Track fiddler on Friday, January 28, 2022 7:38 PM

Evening

Thanks for the continued idea methods here.  Its appears hot water or hair dryer suggestions are pretty even recommendations.

I melted some bridge members with a hair dryer Rich, so I know what you're saying.  They were deformed to the point that I could not straighten them again.  I won't have the luxury of grabbing another stick of styrene if that happens with the railing.  

I see you suggested hot water as Overmod did as well.  I think he suggested a temperature of 163 but not over 165°F.   And I'm liking Douglas's idea of covering up the top of the railing with weight leaving only the warp exposed to the heat.  I see FScotsman leans towards the hair dryer idea as well.

Selectors idea of using the tip of a soldering iron does make perfect sense pinpointing the heat source only where it is needed.  Perhaps holding it an 1/8" away or so.

The hot water ideas have me a little baffled on how to control the directed concentration.  I'm thinking of a glass eye dropper with the 163 degree water taken out of the pot on the stove dripped on to the railing on the glass table with the V notched dowel ready for the jiggle pressure.

I think I have enough scrap railings around here for 8 experiments.  I found this guinea pig and have another one around here somewhere.

Wouldn't you know it that the railings of the Delaware and Hudson shell are perfectly straight.  I have two good U36B's but won't be having any (just in case) railings anymoreLaugh

 

Thanks again for all the help gentlemanYes

 

 

 

TF

 

 

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, January 28, 2022 3:35 PM

TheFlyingScotsman

I've done this to plastic details a few times using a hairdryer. That's as much heat as I'd be comfortable putting on to these types of thing. There's a fine line between getting the result you want and total disaster. Typically you heat it and move it a bit and repeat.

 

The key is to remove the handrail and lay it flat, unwarp it with a weight of some sort so that it takes the shape you want it to take.  (As long as the handrail is not a brittle type of plastic).  Expose only the the most warped parts (usually its a few staunchions).  I usually just cover up the top half of the stauchions because the warp is usually in the bottom half near the sills.

It shouldn't come close to the melting point. You don't soften the plastic then try to shape it flat. 

You hold it flat with weight then apply heat to the exposed part to release the tension that forms the warp. 

It takes less heat that way.  But, you may not get the warp out the first time so try it again with a little longer heating time.

If you use the high heat setting and hold the dryer an inch away from the surface for about 20 seconds, you will melt the plastic.

- Douglas

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Posted by TheFlyingScotsman on Friday, January 28, 2022 3:14 PM

I've done this to plastic details a few times using a hairdryer. That's as much heat as I'd be comfortable putting on to these types of thing. There's a fine line between getting the result you want and total disaster. Typically you heat it and move it a bit and repeat.

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Posted by selector on Friday, January 28, 2022 11:23 AM

A hot soldering iron tip held for a few seconds at a time below the affected railing part will only heat the space and items within about 1 cm of the tip, unless of course one leaves the tip there for several seconds or more.  The idea is to place the tip below the bent part, maybe 1 cm below, two at most, hold-two-three, and remove, do it again, and once more, and then let it cool.  Remove the probe or dowel notched to hold the rail in the condition most proximal to the intended end-state and see what you have accomplished.  Repeat until you ruin the handrail or get it close to what you can live with...if it happens at all.

This is a self-teaching opportunity to learn how to use the soldering iron for this purpose, so t'will require caution, multiple trails, and see if there isn't going to be some progress at some point.

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, January 28, 2022 8:18 AM

Yep, if you use a hair dryer, you're gonna wanna know what you're doing.

One thing is to remove the handrails from the loco or else the part of the loco that is close to the gun; the sill, the cab, or the pilot might be damaged.

Lay the handrail on a flat surface where the warp is...if you can... then weigh down flat with a board, or a metal weight from an old BB freight car, etc, so that only the part of the rail that is causing the warp is exposed.  (that's where the heat needs to go, with the rest of the handrail protected by the weight). Then hit it with the hot air, but remove the hot air after a few seconds.  Repeat the process over several minutes. It heats the plastic slowly.  Let cool.  Look at the results.

Practice with another spare handrail if you want.  Most things in model railroading take practice to get it right.

But again, my experience with Intermountain handrails...not necessarily the SD40  (n scale?), is that the rails are fairly brittle.  So I would be cautious about tryning to unwarp any IM plastic handrail. 

Having taken only two semesters of high school chemistry (or was it in physics class), I remember that pretty much every solid substance in the world has a melting point.  Even the world itself.  No matter if the heat comes via air, water, nuclear fission, Photon Torpedo, or other means.  

Personally, I wouldn't want to work with water or oil that was hot enough to melt plastic.  I'd rather use a device that controlled the direction of the heat and was easily held by hand as to manipulate it successfully.

- Douglas

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, January 28, 2022 7:23 AM

You have to come very close to 'melting' it for the warp in the plastic to be relieved.

I'm sure you'll be relieved when I skip the detailed discussion of polymer physics.  But in order to relieve the 'set', the plastic material has to be heated enough that it 'forgets its assumed shape' ... and this is close to melting temperature, and may well be higher than 'hot water' (or, depending on copolymer, maybe even boiling-water) temperature.

The point of the 'groove' and to a lesser-extent the pin-and-weight jigging is to allow the rail to come close to melting temperature without losing its shape (or its paint) when it cools back down.

It is possible that using a higher-boiling liquid or oil, and something like a lab or candy thermometer that reads accurate temperature, can give you the controlled heat appropriate to particular types of railing plastic.  You do fine temperature control the same way you start cooking mashed potatoes (where you hold the taters at 163, but not over 165, degrees until the starch all reacts)... you have a glass of cool liquid and pour little splashes of it in while watching the thermometer.

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, January 28, 2022 5:22 AM

A word of caution about applying heat from a hair dryer. In the past, I have experimented with warped handrails that I had replaced with straight ones. I first tried an actual heat gun on the lowest setting, and it began to melt the plastic. So, I switched to a hair dryer with even lower settings. But, heat is heat.

What is does is soften the plastic by melting it. It is not obvious at first, but melting is taking place as the plastic softens. Soaking the warped handrail in warm water is the safer method, and it works to some extent if the warmed plastic is immediately weighted down. In my experience, using warm water softens the plastic without melting it. But, overall, I have never been able to fully straighten warped plastic handrails.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Track fiddler on Thursday, January 27, 2022 11:03 PM

Some good ideas along the lines I'm leaning toward Dave.  I agree on using a safer controlled heat such as a hair dryer.

I think it will have to be hyper-extended as well so the deformed memory doesn't come all the way back.  Small increment adjustments sounds like a planYes

 

Thanks for your input Dave.

 

 

 

TF

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