Ah, I had not realized that it matches the prototype.
Simon
hon30critter gmpullman I agree with Mark! I would have had those ladder rungs looking like something out of a Picasso painting. You have them in perfect alignment and depth. Bravo! Hi Ed, That's the advantage of not only being a bit of a hack modelling wise, but also photography wise! You can't see what I can see. I will admit that the final alignment isn't that bad, but getting there wasn't all that easy. Not all the holes in the ladder rails that I drilled initially were on center. I had to re-drill all the holes once the ladder rails were glued to the side walls, and the ones that were out of place were a PITA to correct. Maybe I'm my own worst critic, but it bugs the heck out of me when I don't get things right the first time through. I seem to have to spend as much time fixing my mistakes as I do when I'm making the initial model piece. Cheers!! Dave
gmpullman I agree with Mark! I would have had those ladder rungs looking like something out of a Picasso painting. You have them in perfect alignment and depth. Bravo!
Hi Ed,
That's the advantage of not only being a bit of a hack modelling wise, but also photography wise! You can't see what I can see.
I will admit that the final alignment isn't that bad, but getting there wasn't all that easy. Not all the holes in the ladder rails that I drilled initially were on center. I had to re-drill all the holes once the ladder rails were glued to the side walls, and the ones that were out of place were a PITA to correct.
Maybe I'm my own worst critic, but it bugs the heck out of me when I don't get things right the first time through. I seem to have to spend as much time fixing my mistakes as I do when I'm making the initial model piece.
Cheers!!
Dave
rrebellUsed to have that proublem with the laders but bought a guide from Brawa, only thing I ever bought from them but it works well.
Hi rrebell,
I didn't realize that such a thing existed. I'll keep that in mind.
I'm trying to stop spending any more money on trains (or other stuff for that matter). We have blown through a bunch of money over the last three months so we need to get the bank balance back up there a bit.
Thanks for the suggestion.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
snjroyI had not realized that it matches the prototype.
They are actually just a cosmetic detail as far as the model is concerned. The 0.025" copper blades are plenty stiff enough on their own. If I decide that I don't like how the bars look I can just grind them off.
I decided to scrap the brass curtains that were to go on the rear of the plow because I just didn't think they looked realistic. They certainly didn't look like any foul weather curtains that I had seen on a steam engine.
Instead, I made up a pair of curtains using some brass tube and some fabric with a very fine but visible weave, I hope it will look like canvas. The fabric was part of the shutter mechanism in our old Canon AE1 35mm camera. I scrapped the camera after our kids gave us a digital camera, and it yielded a ton of screws and other interesting parts including the shutter fabric.
These pictures aren't very good but you may get the idea. The curtains are modeled in the rolled up position. Eventually they will be painted white and weathered. The buckles for the tie down straps aren't quite right. They are too thick so I'm going to replace them.
The curtains are not quite in their final positions. They will be tight to the walls when finished:
Not too much to report tonight.
I finished the inside of the roof forward of the cupola. It had turned into a bit of a nightmare because I had stuck various random shaped bits in to reinforce the roof joints where I had to extend the original boxcar roof over the plow blades.
I also added additional reinforcing to the rotary blade enclosures and to the horizontal stationary blade.
None of what I did is particularly photogenic. However, on the subject of photography, I finally figured out how to adjust the exposure on my Sony Cybershot digital camera! I've only had it for 10 years or so, and I have to admit that I didn't understand how to use many of the settings. When I tried to read the instructions my eyes just glazed over. So, I finally sat down and read, and re-read, and re-read the instructions until I found what I needed. There was a knob on the camera that didn't seem to do anything when it was turned. I discovered that the knob has to be pushed in in order for it to have any effect, and voila! The exposure was changed!
I refuse to be embarrassed!!! I'm belligerently proud of my status as a technological dinosaur!!! Instead, I'm going to celebrate my one small step towards camera literacy with a glass of Harvey's Bristol Cream Solera Sherry! Please feel free to join me! It is the nectar of the gods!!
I'm still fiddling with stupid little stuff. For example, I want to move the boiler towards the back of the plow so that I can position the engines closer to the side doors. That will make them much easier to see.
However, moving the boiler isn't as simple as it might sound. I have to extend the drive system frame so the electric motor can be mounted properly. That is proving to be a wee bit of a challenge, and I have to relocate the hole in the roof for the smoke stack. That means moving some of the internal roof bracing as well as patching the old hole.
I also have to make a longer drive shaft to fit between the motor and the gearbox. None of the NWSL Delrin shafts are long enough. Fortunately I discovered that I had a length of 2.4mm steel rod. The U-joint ball couplers with the little wings on them fit the 2.4mm rod quite tightly. I also have a 2.4mm pillow block if the longer shaft needs to be stabilized but I hope I won't have to use it. It will interfere with the placement of the engines.
Once again, none of this stuff is photogenic so I apologise if my posts are getting boring. After the boiler has been moved I will be able to go to work on some more visually interesting stuff.
hon30critter Once again, none of this stuff is photogenic so I apologise if my posts are getting boring. After the boiler has been moved I will be able to go to work on some more visually interesting stuff.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrainDave, you better get hustling. Winter is not that far away, and you may find yourself with no way to clear the snow off the tracks on your layout.
Hi Rich,
I totally agree that I have to get a move on, but not because I may have to blow snow off of my layout! As long as I keep the garage doors closed the layout is pretty safe.
I'm a bit concerned that because I have spent the last several days dealing with non-photogenic minor modifications to improve the appearance and reliability of the plow, people may start to lose interest. Tomorrow I will go back to detailing the boiler. That should provide some visual interest. I'm also waiting for some flexible hose from Precision Scale which I will install between the tender and the plow. I'm hoping that I can route the power wires from the tender to the plow through the hose so they will be hidden. I'm not sure if the hose will be flexible enough to do that. We shall see.
Stay tuned!
hon30critter I'm a bit concerned that because I have spent the last several days dealing with non-photogenic minor modifications to improve the appearance and reliability of the plow, people may start to lose interest.
I'm a bit concerned that because I have spent the last several days dealing with non-photogenic minor modifications to improve the appearance and reliability of the plow, people may start to lose interest.
How about this? Post a photo montage of your progress to date. Just use some or all of the past photos.
richhotrainHow about this? Post a photo montage of your progress to date. Just use some or all of the past photos.
That's an interesting idea. A recap might be appropriate. I'll get to work.
Thanks,
hon30critterHow about this? Post a photo montage of your progress to date. Just use some or all of the past photos.
hon30critterThat's an interesting idea. A recap might be appropriate. I'll get to work.
Okay, here is the photo recap:
This is the prototype:
This is my original concept drawing using 3rd PlanIt. I later extended the rear overhang as was suggested by JaBear:
This shows the shell, frame and the original rotary blade components:
Building the stationary blades:
First attempt at the boiler, and the modified Accurail frame:
First attempt at the rotary blades on the left, with the final blades on the right. The first blades had multiple bends which I couldn't straighten out. The second set of blades were made with 0.025" copper and worked out much better:
The scratchbuilt engines:
The second attempt at the boiler. This one worked out much better:
The first attempt at the gearbox. Ultimately it took three attempts to get the gears lined up and working smoothly:
The first trial for the boiler and gearbox assembly:
The first version of the gearbox. The gears didn't mesh properly:
Trial fitting of the stationary blades:
Ladder and side door detail:
Rear fowl weather curtains:
Interior bracing:
Tender with snow covers:
One of the pusher engines. It will be renamed to Canadian Pacific:
Cupola converted from three windows to five windows front and back:
Trial assembly:
I have left out a lot of details, but I hope the above pictures will give you an idea of the process to date.
Hi folks,
Sorry for the three day gap in my posts.
I spent a lot of time tonight trying to find pictures of the interior of an early rotary snow plow. In particular, I wanted to see what the inside of the cupola looked like. I did manage to find an interior picture of a plow built in the late 1800s but it didn't have a cupola. The operators' area was pretty sparse, as I suspected it would be. There was a pair of fairly large gears at the front of the control space which I believe controlled the direction that the chute was pointed. The top gear was mounted at about the height of the pivot point for the chute.
I also found some photos of the interiors of more modern rotary plows but everything either was built as a diesel, or had been converted to diesel if it was originally steam powered, so the control arrangements weren't suitable for my project.
I made a couple of other discoveries while I was searching. I decided to watch a video of the Cumbres and Toltec OY rotary plow in action and I noticed two things. One was that the weather curtains at the back of the plow were loose canvas sheets that were blowing around in the breeze. That made me decide to go back to my original folded brass curtains so I squished them up a little more to make them fit better. I might use the rolled curtains for one of the locomotives.
The other thing that I noticed was that the tender had been extended upward to hold more coal. Also, the weather doors over the coal load were steeper than the ones I had originally built for my tender. In addition, in one of the videos, the coal hopper had been over-filled so the doors weren't completely closed. In fact, there was quite a bit of coal visible under the doors. I definitely have to model that.
This is a long video, but if you skip to the 4:15 mark you will see the weather curtain and the tender roof shortly after:
As a result of my observations of the Cumbres and Toltec tender, I decided to rip the first set of weather doors off of my tender, extend the hopper upwards by about 30 scale inches, and build the roof at a steeper angle. It will be a better match to the height of the plow itself.
That's all for now.
Very good photo recap, Dave.
Thanks Rich.
There are so many details still to be attended to that I'm not sure where to start! I'm going to get the tender back together, and then I am going to force myself to detail the boiler. That is a task that I have been avoiding simply because I only have a very vague idea of where the bits should go.
I have the new roof on the tender mostly finished. I still have to trim the edges so that all the panels line up, finish the hinges and install handles.
Here is the rebuilt roof:
I took the liberty of modelling the new roof based loosely on the Cumbres and Toltec OY tender. The front panels swing up towards the centerline of the tender. The rear operating panels swing towards the back of the tender. The narrow panels at the back are fixed. I don't know what the advantage is of the panels swinging in different directions, but it looks neat. The panels are positionable so I can show the coal load.
The hinges look huge but that was the smallest brass stock that I had on hand. In reality I don't think they look too bad. Others may disagree. Making the hinges was easy. Glueing them in place was not! Shakey hands!
I left out the raised section at the front of the OY tender because my tender is too short to model it.
Here is the first version:
The likeliest reason for doors opening in different directions is to accommodate different ways of loading coal.
Doors hinged at the apex would have to be laboriously pulled open and then propped in position to load coal only from the side(s). It will be difficult to get the pile anywhere near the angled enclosed space, which means the only real purpose of the door arrangement is to shed heavy snow quickly, like a steeply-pitched roof.
If the door opens to the front, wind or shock may tend to 'pick' it like a suicide door on a car. A wooden door of planks might not survive that, plus the banging of the open door against the space behind it. On the other hand, you can pull it open from the back, and you can use a coal chute or sideloading conveyor to get the coal in on that side.
I'd have the doors in front hinged at the front, with an arrangement to pull them up with a pulley when loading. That also would work with chutes or other methods. Or consider having them slide like boxcar doors, with trapped tracks at the top and rollers or slides at the bottom.
Hi Overmod,
OvermodI'd have the doors in front hinged at the front,
As I mentioned, the Cumbres and Toltec OY tender had the doors in the configuration that I have modelled so I'm going to follow that plan.
OvermodOr consider having them slide like boxcar doors, with trapped tracks at the top and rollers or slides at the bottom.
I can see no end of problems with sliding doors, the first of which would be the tendancy for the tracks and rollers to freeze. Second, in order to open up the whole coal hopper, the doors would have to be able to slide overtop of each other which would make for a very complicated track system.
OvermodDoors hinged at the apex would have to be laboriously pulled open and then propped in position to load coal only from the side(s). It will be difficult to get the pile anywhere near the angled enclosed space, which means the only real purpose of the door arrangement is to shed heavy snow quickly, like a steeply-pitched roof.
Well, shedding snow is the whole idea regardless of how the doors work. The front doors can be opened completely so that they can sit flat on the opposite door. No propping required. Also, there is a video of the OY tender being loaded with a front end loader. Both doors on the loading side are open so the load can be dropped where it's needed. As far as the doors being labourious, what part of steam railroading isn't?
Thanks for your ideas.
My thread now has more than 20,000 views! I'm sure half of them are mine.
Thanks for the interest that everyone has shown.
I spent another four hours on the tender roof trying to get all the panels to line up and operate properly. Rather frustrating, but I want the tender to look like it is in good shape.
Hi gang!
I'm trying to figure out how to model an ash pan under the back of the plow. My conundrum is that the center beam sits exactly where the ash pan would be. Do I simply do away with the center beam in that area and hope that nobody will notice that the theoretical strength of the frame has been compromised (the model would be plenty strong enough with the frame section removed), or do I build a frame around the ash pan?
How do you suggest I model this?
hon30critterI'm trying to figure out how to model an ash pan under the back of the plow.
Okay, here is what I came up with. I'm not sure whether it should dump towards the front or the rear of the plow but for now it faces forward:
I'm not going to worry about the strength of the frame structure, at least for now.
Opinions?
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
I would suggest that you look at page one of his post and you’ll see there, two diagrams depicting ash pan location and shape!
Hi Bear,
I don't know whether to be embarrased or thankful, or both. I had missed that detail when I was studying the diagrams.
Thanks Bear,
Here is the second attempt at an ash pan. The pan would be emptied from either side as opposed to dumping the ash out the bottom. I based this on the diagram that JaBear so gracefully reminded me of on the first page of this thread. It shows a sliding door on the sides of the pan suggesting that the ash was raked out to either side of the plow. That would seem to make sense since the ash would probably have to be cleared out in the field as opposed to in a yard. The plows did not run on a regular schedule like most trains. They went out when needed and stayed out until the job was done. That would have necessitated that they be serviced in the field.
If you look closely you might be able to discern the brass tracks for the sliding door and the handle to open the door.
The first ash pan was devised totally from my own head and it was a totally disfunctional disaster (much like what goes on in my head). It would have jammed full of snow in almost no time:
Thanks again Bear!
hon30critterI don't know whether to be embarrased or thankful, or both. I had missed that detail when I was studying the diagrams.
I have never been happy with the engines. The cylinders were way too short to be realistic. This morning I dismantled the first version of the engines and built new cylinders. The cylinders will obviously be much taller so in order to keep the overall height of the engines the same, I decided to shorten the cylinder support frames and I will eliminate the struts between the upper and lower cylinders that I had used in the first version.
Here are the new unfinished cylinders alongside the originals:
Here is the original engine assembly for reference:
I also changed the height of the steam dome so that the top will sit just above the roof instead of being entirely inside the plow. I cut the original steam dome to separate the rounded top from the curved base and added some brass tube in between the two pieces. The diameter of the inserted tube was a bit smaller than the dome pieces so I am in the process of adding some Tamiya white putty to even things out.
Ash should dump toward the SIDES, and if I were doing it the pans would slope down outboard. Remember that you may have considerable freezing of the ashes which would have to be rodded out in the field...
... and don't forget the arrangement under the smokebox to catch and dump cinders that make it to the front end. This will NOT be a self-cleaning arrangement...
You don't need anywhere near the steam separation provided by that enormous dome, even if the engines have no cutoff, like winch engines, and are repeatedly sent to full throttle when working. If you need a guide for 'how much is enough' look at the Russian locomotives where the greater loading gage allowed higher dry-pipe location (and external pipe a la Woodard's 8000 Mikado, etc.) A dome that big would have to be enormously lagged to avoid losing steam heat and causing nucleate condensation in the saturated steam... "grande".
The throttle arrangement is going to deserve some thought. These older boilers often had the throttle rod running in the crown steam space, inside the boiler, where the linkage would be shorter, relatively immune from damage, and keep warm without differential expansion. A throttle linkage in this area would be very difficult to 'remote' from the wheelhouse. If you're going to keep a raised dome, put the engine throttle close to it, with rod linkage forward to the cab. Then the 'dome throttle' from the backhead linkage will be a master shutoff or 'trim' to adjust the pressure and mass flow to the engines.
I'd be tempted to route the dry pipe back into the boiler shell and then down the curved branch pipes leading to where the cylinders on the donor locomotive were. That keeps the piping protected, and hot... and simplifies explaining where the actual steam piping is. There will be a condensate trap and relief cocks at the lowest point of the plumbing there, again with linkage to the wheelhouse cab to actuate and close them. Then a branch manifold on each side will go to the engines. Return will come off the LP and be directed into the 'existing' front-end arrangement, perhaps smoothly siamesing into a common nozzle.
OvermodAsh should dump toward the SIDES
The picture of my second ash pan isn't very clear, but I modeled sliding doors on either side of the pan. I copied the design from the drawing that Bear referred me to which is in my previous post about four posts before this one.
Overmod... and don't forget the arrangement under the smokebox to catch and dump cinders that make it to the front end. This will NOT be a self-cleaning arrangement...
Good point.
OvermodYou don't need anywhere near the steam separation provided by that enormous dome
Several plow diagrams have shown the top of the steam dome slightly above the roof level, hence the tall dome.
OvermodThe throttle arrangement is going to deserve some thought.
I have decided that the engine will be controlled by the engineer who is located directly beside the boiler. He will receive commands from the pilot who is in the cupola. That is based on this explanation of how an early rotary plow was operated kindly provided by Ed (gmpullman):
hon30critter Overmod Ash should dump toward the SIDES The picture of my second ash pan isn't very clear, but I modeled sliding doors on either side of the pan. I copied the design from the drawing that Bear referred me to which is in my previous post about four posts before this one.
The ash pans on the CNR's 2-10-2s (acquired from the B&A when they got their first Berkshires) dumped to the sides...
I fabricated similar top-hinged ones for a model owned by a longtime friend, as shown here...
...but it's probably easier to see in the unpainted version...
Wayne
Hi Wayne,
Thanks for the pictures.
The ash pan on your 2-10-2 obviously sits right out at the edge of the locomotive. If I am interpreting the rotary plow drawing properly (seven posts previous) it appears that the ash pan is just about the same width as the space between the wheels. That is also about the width as the firebox so having a narrower ash pan would seem to make sense.
What do you or others think?